handling charge completely wrong
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 41, 2, 3, 4
Author


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3066
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 30, 2015

Post Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:10 pm 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:When the opening price is $10, and the s/h is $5, then the exact cost of an item is $15. I think people that can't perform basic arithmetic should probably return to pre-school before they start bidding on things online. And even the mathematical illiterate would gradually pick up on things: "hey, i bid $10 and paid $15 to get it.. how did that happen?"


Well, that works in theory.  In practice, people frequently bid or commit to purchase without reading all the fine print.  People make mistakes.  eBay policy does not permit the seller to take undue advantage of these mistakes.



(http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/lis ... pping.html)



It's pretty clear from that page that handling charges are meant to be used for covering the cost of packaging an item.  Shipping charges are for shipping the item.  Neither are intended for making income!  If you don't like the rules, don't play the game.

 YIM  

User avatar

Prolific Collector

Posts: 772
Joined: Feb 21, 2003
Last Visit: Jun 22, 2018
Location: Spokane, WA

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:02 am 
 

Mars wrote:The problem with this in most cases is that some charging a large handling fee does not disclose that fact.  So when you ask for a shipping quote you do not know how much is handling and how much is shipping.

If all of this is disclosed and the handling fee is high then chances are I would not even bid on the auction.  Sellers who charge a large handling fee do so to cover their costs of listing on Ebay and to cover any paypal charges, time to scan images and write the listing, etc.  These costs are not postage handling fees and should be priced into the auction starting price.


Interesting how you think that you can quote someone and change the quote for your own purposes (whatever those were)

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:

 Quote:
 These costs are not postage handling fees and should [not] be priced into the auction starting price.


This is an interesting point. However, if this occurred at all, and suppose God then decided this could no longer be done, what would happen to the number of items on eBay? What would happen to the prices?

Supply of goods would go down, prices would go up. Are buyers better off?


How does God equate into the controller of eBay? Someone had better alert eBay to this takeover along with the Vatican, they are both missing out on some revenue!

I hope Foul will soon make the "NO TROLLS ALLOWED" decision soon.

Now to something more substantial:

deimos3428 wrote:
Well, that works in theory.  In practice, people frequently bid or commit to purchase without reading all the fine print.  People make mistakes.  eBay policy does not permit the seller to take undue advantage of these mistakes.

(http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/lis ... pping.html)

It's pretty clear from that page that handling charges are meant to be used for covering the cost of packaging an item.  Shipping charges are for shipping the item.  Neither are intended for making income!  If you don't like the rules, don't play the game.


Lets examine this policy shall we:
eBay Policy wrote:
Excessive Shipping Charges Policy


Sellers may charge reasonable shipping and handling fees to cover the costs for mailing, packaging, and handling the items they are selling. While eBay will not prescribe exactly what a seller may or may not charge, eBay will rely on member reports and its own discretion to determine whether or not a seller's shipping, handling, packaging, and/or insurance charges are excessive. Shipping and handling fees may not be listed as a percentage of the final sale price.

Sellers who want to be sure they are in compliance with this policy may charge actual shipping costs plus actual packaging materials cost (or less).

In addition to the final listing price, sellers are permitted to charge:

Actual Shipping cost: This is the actual cost (i.e. postage) for shipping the item.

Handling Fee: Actual packaging materials costs may be charged. A handling fee in addition to actual shipping cost may be charged if it is not excessive.
Insurance: Sellers offering insurance may only charge the actual fee for insurance. No additional amount may be added, such as "self-insurance". Sellers who do not use a licensed 3rd party insurance company may not require buyers to purchase insurance. This is a violation of state law.

Tax: Only actual applicable federal, state, country, city, VAT, and equivalent taxes may be charged.

For cross border transactions, sellers may not collect tariffs and duties. However, buyers may be responsible for actual, applicable tariffs, and duties as requested by respective country laws.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation

Limits on account privileges

Account suspension

Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings

Loss of PowerSeller status

Why does eBay have this policy?    

This policy reduces the potential for confusion among bidders about the full cost of an item. Listings that include excessive shipping fees lead to a poor buying experience and un-level the playing field by putting sellers who charge reasonable shipping charges at a disadvantage. These listings undermine the trust and legitimacy of eBay's marketplace.




Now lets examine the two things that I think are the red flags of this policy (which are highlighted in bold):



While eBay will not prescribe exactly what a seller may or may not charge, eBay will rely on member reports and its own discretion to determine whether or not a seller's shipping, handling, packaging, and/or insurance charges are excessive.



 First off they (eBay) WILL NOT PRESCRIBE what can be charge, therefore sellers can charge whatever amount or include whatever fee they want!



 Second, if eBay does get a report they ignore it and not use any DISCRETION because they WILL LOOSE MONEY! :wink:



 Third, they have already determined what is excessive insurance charges.



This leads into the second bold statement:



A handling fee in addition to actual shipping cost may be charged if it is not excessive.
Insurance: Sellers offering insurance may only charge the actual fee for insurance. No additional amount may be added, such as "self-insurance".




What constitutes an excessive handling fee? Anyone?



Why is it that sellers are constantly rounding up insurance charges when it is in writing what the actual breakdown is (ie USPS insurance costs)?



These things happen on a continual basis and this is the most rampant and violated eBay policy of all. Everyone here who has been here and posting for at least 1 year know who the biggest culprits are and yet nothing is done by eBay nor is anyone continually reporting these individuals listings as being in violation of this policy. If they are being reported, then eBay is obviously ignoring them or they are consenting that these are not "EXCESSIVE FEES" and are therefore not in violation. If this is the case I think that we all should charge these "ALLOWABLE" fees, that way no one can bitch about it.


"Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song."

"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 6067
Joined: May 03, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 14, 2021
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:24 am 
 

Kosh Vorlontay wrote:
Interesting how you think that you can quote someone and change the quote for your own purposes (whatever those were)


I don't quite understand this statement.  Maybe I can clarify my point.  The one negative I have in my Ebay feedback is from a seller who charged actual shipping + a handling fee of $2 per auction.  I bought 5 auctions each for $1 I think.  I have asked the seller if he would combine shipping and was told he would do so.  When the invoice arrived and I saw a high shipping fee, I asked why it was so high (it was something like $20 for 5 magazines).  The seller then gave me a list of everything he had to pay for that was included in the handling fee.  These included his time to scan images, time and cost to post an auction on ebay, time to respond to email questions, etc.

NONE of these fees are valid shipping handling fees and Ebay considers them to be Ebay fee avoidance.  I still ended up paying the high shipping and got screwed when the seller decided the customs value was 10 time higher than the price I won the auction and I ended up pay tax on this high valuation.

What I have meant to say in my initial statement is that sellers who charge a high handling fee generally do so with the intention of making money on it or using it to pay off expenses that are not related to the shipping of the package.  If it happens that someone lives out in the country and needs to drive 50 miles to a post office, I can understand a higher charge.  However, if a seller starts spouting off that it takes him time to get the listing ready and scan images and walk to the post office and find a sitter for his dog while has gone to the post office, etc etc  
Then his handling charge is completely unjustified and I would refuse to pay it - and also this does violate Ebay policy.

Would Ebay force the seller to reduce his handling fee if such a report is made?  Probably not.  Anytime I have contacted Ebay about their policy, I have got a load of crap from them.  Most of the time, they have contradicted their own policy.

 WWW  

User avatar

Prolific Collector

Posts: 772
Joined: Feb 21, 2003
Last Visit: Jun 22, 2018
Location: Spokane, WA

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:33 am 
 

Sorry Mars, I put that in the wrong spot.

I was referencing Sea-to-sky-games who took your quote
 
Mars wrote:These costs are not postage handling fees and should be priced into the auction starting price.


 and changed it to this:

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:These costs are not postage handling fees and should [not] be priced into the auction starting price.


Notice he attached 'not' to your "Quote"

Then wrote this in response to your now edited quote


Sea-to-sky-games wrote:This is an interesting point. However, if this occurred at all, and suppose God then decided this could no longer be done, what would happen to the number of items on eBay? What would happen to the prices?

 Supply of goods would go down, prices would go up. Are buyers better  off?


So here is the drinking song for today:

...and Sea-to-sky-games is still...
...trollin, trollin, trollin...
...dont let this troll keep trollin...
...so bane him, bane him, bane him...
...Lord Foul!! :twisted:


"Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song."

"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
JG Valuation Board
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 5029
Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Last Visit: Jan 16, 2017
Location: Texas

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:47 am 
 

Bane him???
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:


"Guys, I am starting to think Tegel Manor might be haunted..."
Stated by me as a PC during a run of Tegel Manor DMed by killjoy at NTRPGCon 2010

Charter Member of the ATM

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 7942
Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 19, 2021
Location: DFW TX

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:11 am 
 

Kosh Vorlontay wrote:
Now lets examine the two things that I think are the red flags of this policy (which are highlighted in bold):

While eBay will not prescribe exactly what a seller may or may not charge, eBay will rely on member reports and its own discretion to determine whether or not a seller's shipping, handling, packaging, and/or insurance charges are excessive.

 First off they (eBay) WILL NOT PRESCRIBE what can be charge, therefore sellers can charge whatever amount or include whatever fee they want!

 Second, if eBay does get a report they ignore it and not use any DISCRETION because they WILL LOOSE MONEY! :wink:

 Third, they have already determined what is excessive insurance charges.

This leads into the second bold statement:

A handling fee in addition to actual shipping cost may be charged if it is not excessive.
Insurance: Sellers offering insurance may only charge the actual fee for insurance. No additional amount may be added, such as "self-insurance".


What constitutes an excessive handling fee? Anyone?



It's pretty obvious Ebay's "policy" is a flat out joke. It enables them to pretend they are tough on excessive fees, yet leaves them tons of wiggle room so that they never have to actually enforce their rules.  I have no idea what the policy actually does except trick clueless Ebay users into thinking Ebay is looking out for their interests.
  The best option is to have pre-set prices and up front shipping costs, or ask the seller for a shipping quote.  Even if you don't agree (say, someone charges $5 per additional item) you have the decision to not buy from them.  I know it sounds cold, but anyone buying from a seller who chooses not to advertise his shipping/handling costs up front deserves as much sympathy as they guy walking on the railroad tracks late at night with a Ipod turned up loud...

Mike B.


"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
Co-founder of the North Texas RPG Con
http://www.ntrpgcon.com

 WWW  

User avatar

Prolific Collector

Posts: 772
Joined: Feb 21, 2003
Last Visit: Jun 22, 2018
Location: Spokane, WA

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:52 am 
 

Aneoth wrote:Bane him???
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:


:oops: ....(changes battery on speak-n-spell)... :)

...and Sea-to-sky-games is still...
...trollin, trollin, trollin...
...dont let this troll keep trollin...
...so ban him, ban him, ban him...
...Lord Foul!!


"Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song."

"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3066
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 30, 2015

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:13 am 
 

Kosh Vorlontay wrote:First off they (eBay) WILL NOT PRESCRIBE what can be charge, therefore sellers can charge whatever amount or include whatever fee they want!

"Will not prescribe" is not equivalent to "do whatever you want, we don't care".  They are simply allowing for modest handling fees to cover the cost of packaging items for shipment.  Enough theory, though.

Kosh Vorlontay wrote:Second, if eBay does get a report they ignore it and not use any DISCRETION because they WILL LOOSE MONEY! :wink:

This might well be the case.  I never said it was a rock-solid policy, and I never said eBay enforces their stated policies effectively, or at all.  But you have to work with the policies that exist.  

Kosh Vorlontay wrote:What constitutes an excessive handling fee? Anyone?

Easy.  Anything in excess of the actual cost of readying the item for shipment.  If you have to buy a bubble mailer, or cardboard, or tape, fine.  If you live far from the post office and have to take the bus, fine.  If you absolutely have to eat a slice of pizza to get enough energy to wrap up the item, fine.  If you just want to save up for a Lambourgini -- not fine.  This is pretty common sense stuff!

 YIM  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 7942
Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 19, 2021
Location: DFW TX

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:18 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:Easy.  Anything in excess of the actual cost of readying the item for shipment.  If you have to buy a bubble mailer, or cardboard, or tape, fine.  If you live far from the post office and have to take the bus, fine.  If you absolutely have to eat a slice of pizza to get enough energy to wrap up the item, fine.  If you just want to save up for a Lambourgini -- not fine.  This is pretty common sense stuff!


But my Lambourgini is the one I DRIVE to the post office....it's a legit cost!!!!

Mike B.


"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
Co-founder of the North Texas RPG Con
http://www.ntrpgcon.com

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 759
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Last Visit: Jan 19, 2021
Location: Dallas, TX

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:27 pm 
 

Sorry Mars, I put that in the wrong spot.

I was referencing Sea-to-sky-games who took your quote
 
 Mars wrote:
 These costs are not postage handling fees and should be priced into the auction starting price.  


and changed it to this:

 Sea-to-sky-games wrote:
 These costs are not postage handling fees and should [not] be priced into the auction starting price.


Notice he attached 'not' to your "Quote"

Then wrote this in response to your now edited quote


Easy now!

I misunderstood what he wrote. When I read that line I assumed he meant these "other costs" should not be incorporated into the "auction s/h quote". But he just phrased the exact same point differently.

Frankly it's all semantics because it is perfectly clear I am disagreeing with him. [It's also worth noting that I put the added word in parenthenses to indicate precisely that this was not what the original poster wrote, but what I felt he intended.]

I was not aware that spelling, grammar, and comprehension had to be perfect to enter and speak on this forum.


Last edited by Sea-to-sky-games on Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 759
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Last Visit: Jan 19, 2021
Location: Dallas, TX

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:37 pm 
 

The point here is that eBay's policy has nothing to do with protecting buyers. It has to do with maximizing profit.

eBay tries to put in harsh wording so that the expense of the buyer will be borne primarily through the bid price (where they get their money) and not through shipping fees (which they can't get their hands on).

But everyone knows it is impossible to determine whether are not these "added" fees somehow worked into the s/h are not reasonable.

In any event, the final cost of the good doesn't change, so buyers are indifferent. If s/h are low, then the bid price goes higher. If the s/h are high, the bid price goes lower. It's basic supply and demand.


Last edited by Sea-to-sky-games on Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 759
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Last Visit: Jan 19, 2021
Location: Dallas, TX

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:44 pm 
 

Well, that works in theory. In practice, people frequently bid or commit to purchase without reading all the fine print. People make mistakes. eBay policy does not permit the seller to take undue advantage of these mistakes.


This is nonsense. Buyers mistakenly assess the condition of the item for sale; buyers mistakenly assess the length of shipping to their location; buyers mistake the investment value of a good; buyers sometimes buy things they already have; buyers even make mistakes working out currency differences (although eBay does compute this automatically when the user's prefs are defined, although not shipping costs).

The reason why mistakes occur is because it is costly for buyers to obtain perfect information. And even if perfect information were available, the price would reflect that (ie. buyers would bid more).

The seller can't be held accountable for buyer mistakes just as buyers can't be held accountable for seller mistakes (or bad entrepreneurial decisions).

I guess the only thing I wanted to add to this conversation is that exchange on eBay is voluntary. With the obvious exception of fraud, if one doesn't like the practices, the high prices, or whatever of a certain seller, you are free not to buy from them.

  


Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6463
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Dec 25, 2019

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:45 pm 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:
In any event, the final cost of the good doesn't change, so buyers are indifferent. If s/h are low, then the bid price goes higher. If the s/h are high, the bid price goes lower. It's basic supply and demand.


I hate to break it to you chief, but the real world, specifically Ebay isn't that simple and it does not work that way. :?   I know the text book that you are currently reading says that id does, but that text book doesn't deal with real world situations and real life people. I think thats your biggest problem,  you keep reading that from textbook that you have in front of you and you are continuously trying to apply it to real world situations to it.  In theory, your text book maybe correct, however Real Life is something totally different.   If you have spent as much time observing the bidding and buying practices on Ebay as you have spent with your nose buried in that Economics book that you have, you might start to actually realize this.....


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 759
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Last Visit: Jan 19, 2021
Location: Dallas, TX

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:52 pm 
 

I hate to break it to you chief, but the real world, specifically Ebay isn't that simple and it does not work that way.    I know the text book that you are currently reading says that id does, but that text book doesn't deal with real world situations and real life people. I think thats your biggest problem,  you keep reading that from textbook that you have in front of you and you are continuously trying to apply it to real world situations to it.  In theory, your text book maybe correct, however Real Life is something totally different.   If you have spent as much time observing the bidding and buying practices on Ebay as you have spent with your nose buried in that Economics book that you have, you might start to actually realize this.....


No need to patronize.

I've bought and sold many things on eBay for at least 7 years so I feel I have as strong an understanding as anyone on how people generally behave in auctions.

Moreover, I think I've kept the discussion in layman's terms and not resorted to theory. The only thing I've spoken about is supply and demand, and then applied it.

If you need that argument (i.e. I'm just book smart) to defend what seems to be a very weak position, and people buy it, more power to you.

  


Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6463
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Dec 25, 2019

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:53 pm 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:
This is nonsense.


Is it? Well that's nice to know. I am glad that you are here to instruct us all.  :roll:


Sea-to-sky-games wrote:Buyers mistakenly assess the condition of the item for sale; buyers mistakenly assess the length of shipping to their location; buyers mistake the investment value of a good; buyers sometimes buy things they already have; buyers even make mistakes working out currency differences (although eBay does compute this automatically when the user's prefs are defined, although not shipping costs).

The reason why mistakes occur is because it is costly for buyers to obtain perfect information. And even if perfect information were available, the price would reflect that (ie. buyers would bid more).


Really?  That's funny, I wasn't aware that you were present in every buyers mind while they were making thier decision to bid/buy.  Once again, just becasue your text book tells you something doesn't apply to real world situations.  I can tell you on a multitude of occasions where I made my mind up that I was only going to bid x amount of dollars only to get caught up in the heat of the moment and bid higher, considerably higher.  Does that mean that I stupid? Or perhaps does that mean that after the fact that I didn't regret my decision to get caught up in the heat of the moment bidding/buying?  What does your textbook say about that?  Does that mean alll of a sudden that the value of said item suddenly is substantially higher in my mind? I am betting that your Economics textbook makes no mention of it, because economic theory can not come anywhere close to attempt to explain Human Behavior, ever.   Perhaps you might want to start reading your Psychology textbook a little more thoroughly before acting like you know it all.  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1709
Joined: Feb 04, 2004
Last Visit: Aug 23, 2016
Location: Chandler, AZ

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:00 pm 
 

Clarkie seems to be summing it up well . . . in the REAL World sellers are frequently accountable for buyer mistakes.  If someone buys the wrong size outfit, tries it on, returns it to the store and asks for a refund . . . the store takes a loss.  Maybe they can restock it again and sell it for the same price . . . odds are not.  Plus they have to staff a person(s) to take returns and all sorts of other paperwork, expenses involved with it.

People order food at restaurants . . . it arrives cooked/prepared as it is supposed to be:  the patron doesn't like it.  They create a fuss - Restaurant takes the meal back and substitutes another.  

I forgot to take my trash out to be picked up a few months ago . . . I was on the phone the next day to have them send a truck out especially for me to make up for my mistake.


And, really, there is no mystery with high handling charges. If someone bids knowing S&H is $15.00, they are expecting a degree of honesty.  They Figure "I guess that is what it costs to mail the item".     When they see that postage only came out to $5.00 they feel ripped off.  It doesn't matter that they were willing to pay it initially . . . it was only because they resigned themselves to that being the actual cost to mail it to them.   Now me?  I know all the ins and outs of postage.  I don't give a damn what the handling fees are . . . I bid accordingly.  

But trying telling that to my wife . . . she gets raging mad when someone rips her off for a few bucks handling.  Right or wrong, doesn't matter.  She's the consumer.   She has a right to complain - maybe to no effect and maybe to the betterment of her situation.


"Gleemonex makes it feel like it's seventy-two degrees in your head... all... the... time! "

  


Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6463
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Dec 25, 2019

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:04 pm 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:
No need to patronize.


Patronize? Was that before or after you just told the previous poster that there comments were nonsense?  :roll:

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:I've bought and sold many things on eBay for at least 7 years so I feel I have as strong an understanding as anyone on how people generally behave in auctions.


Based on your comments here, its quite apparent to pretty much everyone else here that you do not have the slightest clue as to how things work.

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:Moreover, I think I've kept the discussion in layman's terms and not resorted to theory. The only thing I've spoken about is supply and demand, and then applied it.


Applied to it what?  the only thing to this point that you have talked about is your theory.  Other than saying I am right and just about everyone else is wrong, how about citing some specific instances that you have been apart of that proves everyone else wrong?

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:If you need that argument (i.e. I'm just book smart) to defend what seems to be a very weak position, and people buy it, more power to you.


I guess because you say its a weak position, then it must be a weak position.  I also guess that everyone else on here who has been doing this for years and years who agrees with me on this subject also need to be enlightened as well, huh?  Since we are all apparently morons on this site, then why are you subjecting yourself to those of us beneath you. Perhaps a forum of your own is in order, where you can preach to all those so much more intelligent then the rest of us idiots who have been doing this thing for years. :roll:  :roll:  :roll:


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


Active Collector

Posts: 97
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Last Visit: Jun 06, 2009
Location: Sacramento CA

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:27 pm 
 

[quote="Sea-to-sky-games"]

The seller can't be held accountable for buyer mistakes just as buyers can't be held accountable for seller mistakes (or bad entrepreneurial decisions). [quote]

Actually Sea, Beyond is quite correct.  That statement is entirely wrong.  Sellers are often accountable for buyer mistakes (and in fact the business I used to work in had cost annalysis for just that).  The reverse is also true, buyers quite frequently are held accountable for seller mistakes...whether its in increased cost or service time.   Happens all the time.

As a seller, you take the lumps as a cost of doing business or you risk alienating buyers.  As a buyer you take the initiative to recoup some of your losses by doing what is neccessary to hound the seller (hoping they will count on your return business), or you cut your losses and move on.  Most sellers (smart ones that is) want at least a certain percentage to come back to hound them, and do a decent to exceptional job at pleasing the customer to maintain loyalty or spread word of mouth.

Those sellers who use the good nature or assumption of the buyer (for example the shipping cost listed as has been discussed), and take advantage by gouging, will eventually reap what they have sowed.


Okay, I can't help but ask, but what exactly is a "potato wedger"? - bclarkie

  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3066
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 30, 2015

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:37 pm 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:This is nonsense.

No, it is not.  I'm a pretty good judge of nonsense, and I think I can state confidently and without hubris that little of what I state is "nonsense".  Sometimes it's boring, stupid, inane, or just plain incorrect, but it always has some sense to it.  If you spent a little time on here instead of jumping around like a rabid wolverine, you'd know that.  But enough about me.

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:The seller can't be held accountable for buyer mistakes just as buyers can't be held accountable for seller mistakes (or bad entrepreneurial decisions).

I never suggested they could.  Try to pay attention, please.  You're missing some really high-quality stuff.  :)

I said that sellers aren't permitted to take undue advantage of buyers.  You certainly can and should charge reasonable shipping and handling fees.  Reasonable.  It's not an entirely subjective term, as you've implied.

We all know there is a distinction between the reasonable and the outrageous.  We don't agree on precisely where that line is drawn, but we all agree within about an order of magnitude.  A $100 s/h fee on a single module is outrageous.  A $10 one might be reasonable.  A $1 one is generous.  Therefore, a $100 s/h fee is taking undue advantage, whether explicitly stated in the auction or not.

 YIM  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 6067
Joined: May 03, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 14, 2021
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:55 pm 
 

Sea, your argument is that if extra non shipping related costs are included with s/h then the final auction cost will be lower and conversely that if the s/h is lower then the final auction cost will be higher.

I think the biggest problem that you have with trying to prove this statement is to show that most buyers are intelligent enough to really take this into account for each auction they bid on.  If you are trying to say that every buyer will go and do comparative shopping on Ebay to find the actual cost of shipping for each particular item they are interested in and then determine what a going rate for that item is and finally bid accordingly based on these two numbers - then I think you are crazy!  This idealism really sounds like someone who has taken a couple of economics courses and learned to use a spreadsheet.  No offence but in the real world textbook models such as this just don't work.

Since it should be obvious that 99% of buyers do not go through this process, the responsibility then falls onto sellers.  Auctions are set up with two parts: the sale of the item and shipping.  Ebay has made it clear that  fees associated with the sale of the item such as listing the item, etc are included in the final price of the item and they can not be passed onto the buyer.  The second part is shipping and handling associated with shipping.   

When you go into a store and buy something, do you expect to be charged extra fees such a couple of bucks to pay the cashier to take your money or the janitor to clean up the mess your shoes brought in, or for having someone help you?  How many times have you even left a tip for  these service people?  My guess would be NONE!  What I don't understand in your argument is why do you feel types of fees are legitimate in an Ebay auction?  They are clearly not fees related to shipping.

 WWW  
PreviousNext
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 41, 2, 3, 4