The Expanded Editorial of Jim Perelman's 1st Ed PHB
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Post Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:15 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:I got it in the mail this week but just last night got a chance to page through it.
  This thing is frikken hilarious!!!
  It's much more than just the rant.  This is truly a PERSONALIZED copy of the PHB...tons and tons of notations, notes written in the margins, stuff crossed out, entire spells blacked out, names changed, spells altered, etc.  Some of the notations had my laughing out loud. Under "Halflings" in the character races section, Perelman notes: "They're called Hobbits, assholes". The Weapon type to hit adjustment table" "This table smokes farty eggs". The clerical Conjure Animals spell has "This is the biggest bunch of crap I've ever seen. The author of this spell should be exploded" written in the margin and the entire spell marked out; The Mirror Image spell, under the explanation of number of images formed, he's written "Roll a fucking D4 Asshole".  Funny stuff.
  The most interesting though upon flipping through this is how different the approaches were between groups of players.  For myself, we would NEVER have thought of marking up the PHB like this...it was like the bible or something!  I didn't think so at the time since we had so many house rules, but for the most part on spell descriptions etc we slavishly followed the rules.  My group would have never thought about altering spell descriptions, spell lengths, etc.  We would have simply ignored the entire spell and just not used it.
 Also, got to love these old books...despite the massive amount of use Perelman probably put it through, it's rock solid.  Looks like it could make it through another 25 years of gaming no prob....

Mike B.


Plainly, Perelman never heard of or understood copyright law at the time! :!:  :idea:  
I wonder if there was a way to contact this guy today, there could be a way to send him or show him the book with your comments put in there--
and see what he says . . .

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Just don't send it 'M' bag


Or to Cougarrinard!!  :lol:  :lol:

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__________________________________________________________________

Seriously, I never wrote in my copies of books or modules either; heck, I had trouble highlighting books in college!!  If I needed to write something, I just went and photocopied what I needed and wrote on the copies.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:42 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:Players who charmed monsters expected the monsters to robotically obey any command.

Players whose characters were affected by a Charm Person spell would inevitably argue that since they would not obey any order that was "against their nature," they would not have to follow any orders at all.  In fact, a simple request like, "Please stop killing me, charmed dude," would not be obeyed since sparing monsters would be "against my nature."

They whined and complained so long and so loud:

Player: "So, you're telling me that my that my 12th level barbarian can be stopped by a first level spell.  That's ridiculous...I don't have a very good save at all!"

DM:  "Um...if you wanted saving throws you'd have been a cleric or a paladin.  Didn't you accept the disadvantages of being a barbarian when you chose to be one?  Haven't you been hacking magic users to death all evening?  Do they get to argue that your sword is unfair?"

I got sick of it so I wrote down a definition of charmed on a D&D book end sheet and forced them to sign it or forever more shut up.


Oh Lord.  If anything you were much too nice.  The next time they tried to charm a Neo Otyugh or something, I'd have it attack them under the premise "It's against the creature's nature not to turn you into Neo Otyugh food" or something of the sort.  So I take it neither characters nor monsters use Charm in your campaigns now, due to the rule of Escalating Force?  :D
 My players and myself reached a detente of sorts on that...in that whatever you can reasonably ask a charmed creature to do, can also be applied to your character.  I had to hammer them a few times before they got the idea, but things proceeded smoothly afterwards.

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:42 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Oh Lord.  If anything you were much too nice.  The next time they tried to charm a Neo Otyugh or something, I'd have it attack them under the premise "It's against the creature's nature not to turn you into Neo Otyugh food" or something of the sort.  So I take it neither characters nor monsters use Charm in your campaigns now, due to the rule of Escalating Force?  :D
 My players and myself reached a detente of sorts on that...in that whatever you can reasonably ask a charmed creature to do, can also be applied to your character.  I had to hammer them a few times before they got the idea, but things proceeded smoothly afterwards.

Mike B.


In a campaign series lasting into multiple decades (1978 to now), with a changing cast of players, the same arguments have had to be repeated many times...since even experienced players are quite capable of "forgetting" any rule that does not favor them.

(There have been upwards of 60 or so players over the years.)

Charm Person now won't do anything except make a creature vaguely friendly to you.

I agreed never to use Charm Person again...instead, I have the right to substitute another power or feat of my choice whenever a monster has that particular spell.  Usually, that means Suggestion...about which there is little dispute.  I try to be as mean as possible in my choice.

The ability of otherwise super-intelligent and highly honest people to utilize selective memory is astonishing.  Conversely, being a DM is good training for seeing and/or arguing multiple points of view.

Mark 8)


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Post Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:25 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:
In a campaign series lasting into multiple decades (1978 to now), with a changing cast of players, the same arguments have had to be repeated many times...since even experienced players are quite capable of "forgetting" any rule that does not favor them.

(There have been upwards of 60 or so players over the years.)

Charm Person now won't do anything except make a creature vaguely friendly to you.

I agreed never to use Charm Person again...instead, I have the right to substitute another power or feat of my choice whenever a monster has that particular spell.  Usually, that means Suggestion...about which there is little dispute.  I try to be as mean as possible in my choice.

The ability of otherwise super-intelligent and highly honest people to utilize selective memory is astonishing.  Conversely, being a DM is good training for seeing and/or arguing multiple points of view.

Mark 8)


Well, I understand.  I have one core of guys, we adventure maybe 2-3 times a year now, been playing together since the late 70s.  To this day they will conveniently "forget" many spell applications.  Fireball is one of the worst offenders...also Lightning Bolt, the main argument always being that since the PCs know the spell is going off, they should get bonuses for jumping out of the way at the last second (!).  The one that made me laugh once was when a player delibertly shot a lightning bolt at a enemy, who was in front of a brick wall just in front of the PC.  The PC wanted to "jump out of the way of the bounceback because I know it's coming".  I said yep, that's why they made saving throws, roll the dice....needless to say much pouting occurred upon unsuccesful save...

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:39 am 
 

"Roll your saving throw then. :D ..Oh sorry! Critical Miss! :(

Take 2d10 damage for head-diving into the wall next to you as you attempted to miss getting hit by the Bolt." :twisted:


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:59 am 
 

For those who have read Mr. Perelman's book of "rants, raves, and name-calling":  Is there anything in Perelman's copy of the book that seems to have been a good idea, or has been adapted/used in later rules versions?  Or is it all just "hot air"??

  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:16 am 
 

Keep this up, and a reletively worthless used book is gonna be worth a bomb. The longer this thread, the more value the book.


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:38 am 
 

sleepyCO wrote:For those who have read Mr. Perelman's book of "rants, raves, and name-calling":  Is there anything in Perelman's book that seems to have been a good idea, or has been adapted/used in later rules versions?  Or is it all just "hot air"??


Well, they are house rules, so in some cases I applaud his changes...others make no sense.

He completely rewrites the Monk's abilities...makes them more useful (higher AC, more attacks, more damage).

Makes Cure Light Wounds curing 2-7 pts....we had this one in my campaign (who likes to roll a "1" for a cure roll? :( )

Changes reverse of Raise Dead to Finger of Death....not a bad idea, actually.


Other little examples....a line here and there explaining something...it's not all rants and freak outs.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:34 pm 
 

Bump: Who has it now?


"Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song."

"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:19 pm 
 

Kosh Vorlontay wrote:Bump: Who has it now?


Still here with me...who wants it next?  I'll send it out after New Years...when John and I got together last week I forgot to bring the PHB with me for him to sign (whoops...) We'll be seeing each other New Year's eve though so he can look through it then.  Afterwards, it's ready for it's next visit....

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:33 pm 
 

I know others have requested it before me, but go ahead and add an eventual stop in Reno for the Infamous PHB. :)

Since it will just be me looking at it, I can have it turned back around within a couple of days.

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Post Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:53 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:I know others have requested it before me, but go ahead and add an eventual stop in Reno for the Infamous PHB. :)

Since it will just be me looking at it, I can have it turned back around within a couple of days.

You guys are going to be heart-broken when a postal service inevitably loses it.  (My money's on Canada Post, if anybody wants to place a side bet...)

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Post Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:16 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:You guys are going to be heart-broken when a postal service inevitably loses it.  (My money's on Canada Post, if anybody wants to place a side bet...)


Have some faith in the postal service Deimos!  Even Canada post has never lost a package I sent!  (Just make sure to follow all their "Rules" which include no abreviations and CANADA must be in all CAPS. )  :D


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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:52 pm 
 

Bump


"Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song."

"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

  

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:38 pm 
 

Almost forgot about this!  8O

Mike brought the book over on New Year's Eve and let me look through it.  Some really funny stuff in there.  This guy commented on just about every table in the book and the cracks he made about some of the spells are priceless.  :D

  

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:49 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:Almost forgot about this!  8O

Mike brought the book over on New Year's Eve and let me look through it.  Some really funny stuff in there.  This guy commented on just about every table in the book and the cracks he made about some of the spells are priceless.  :D


Whoever sends an PM to me first with their address, gets it next....!

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:44 am 
 

Badmike wrote:
Whoever sends an PM to me first with their address, gets it next....!

Mike B.


Mike, Do you still have it? If so, I would like to look at it too, before you send it off to the next folks.

Aneoth


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Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:14 am 
 

Aneoth wrote:
Mike, Do you still have it? If so, I would like to look at it too, before you send it off to the next folks.

Aneoth


Sure John. I already have a candidate to send it off to afterwards, PM me your address Keith and I can get the package ready.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:32 am 
 

Mike,

I've sent two PMs this morning with my mailing address, but they are sitting in my outbox ... I'm assuming therefore you didn't receive them for some reason (server problem, maybe?).

Anyway, would you prefer I contact you via email?

Thanks,
Keith

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:50 am 
 

Keith wrote:Mike,

I've sent two PMs this morning with my mailing address, but they are sitting in my outbox ... I'm assuming therefore you didn't receive them for some reason (server problem, maybe?).

Anyway, would you prefer I contact you via email?

Thanks,
Keith


Got 'em both Keith, no problem..

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