The Expanded Editorial of Jim Perelman's 1st Ed PHB
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Post Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:19 am 
 

So...I hold in my hand Jim Perelman's legendary Players Handbook (first edition, I believe).  

Interesting to note that Jim's age is written beside his name in a different handwriting from his own.  The handwriting matches the notation on the facing endpage that this is "Carole Perelman's book."  

Could Carole Perelman be a sister?  

The notation about Jim's age implies that Carole noted it down some time later...possibly as a humorous note about the age at which her brother composed such an infamous rant?

Is it also significant that Carole Perelman's name is written below (and therefore later than?) the notation, "RETURN TO HAWK"?

It looks as if someone tried to white-out "RETURN TO HAWK" but then wiped it away before it could dry?

Who wrote "ATTILA THE HUN" above Jim's rant on the right inside front cover sheet?  It looks like they covered over an old notation.

Aside from Jim's rant, the notations and rule changes inside are at least consistent.  He wanted to make some of the classes less powerful (like they were before AD&D) and he did not like some of the spell descriptions.

Significantly, Jim Perelman's notations all upgrade the monk.

I tend to agree with some of his changes.

Aenoth's CD is inside the front cover.

I signed it today.  Future signers should add the date to their signatures.

OK - Who's next?


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:57 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:So...I hold in my hand Jim Perelman's legendary Players Handbook (first edition, I believe).  

Interesting to note that Jim's age is written beside his name in a different handwriting from his own.  The handwriting matches the notation on the facing endpage that this is "Carole Perelman's book."  

Could Carole Perelman be a sister?  

The notation about Jim's age implies that Carole noted it down some time later...possibly as a humorous note about the age at which her brother composed such an infamous rant?

Is it also significant that Carole Perelman's name is written below (and therefore later than?) the notation, "RETURN TO HAWK"?

It looks as if someone tried to white-out "RETURN TO HAWK" but then wiped it away before it could dry?

Who wrote "ATTILA THE HUN" above Jim's rant on the right inside front cover sheet?  It looks like they covered over an old notation.

Aside from Jim's rant, the notations and rule changes inside are at least consistent.  He wanted to make some of the classes less powerful (like they were before AD&D) and he did not like some of the spell descriptions.

Significantly, Jim Perelman's notations all upgrade the monk.

I tend to agree with some of his changes.

Aenoth's CD is inside the front cover.

I signed it today.  Future signers should add the date to their signatures.

OK - Who's next?


He tried to turn AD&D back to original D&D..

My question would be, instead of doing all that work, why not just play original D&D?  :D

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:15 am 
 

OK...well...the weapon speed factor chart does indeed "smoke farty eggs."

One of the problems with sticking to an older version of the game is that you cannot write for the game unless you are up to date....and Jim Perelman's comments and writing skills tend to indicate to me that he was thinking about publishing.

Another problem is that the game passes you by and there are no more tournaments, magazine articles and published modules to support you.

A third problem is that you encounter other players who want to use the new rules...and you either comply, argue or sit out.

One other interesting thing about Jim Perelman's rant is that part of his rant appears to be directed at one of the supplement books, because he references the Gods, Demi-gods and Heroes booklet.  The AD&D version is called just Gods and Demigods.

Jim obviously loved the game enough to rewrite sections of the Players Handbook to fit his needs.  I like him.   :D

Mark


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:50 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:OK - Who's next?

I'd like to take a look, but, honestly, I'm sure sure if I'm at the front or the back of the queue. This thread has had enough stops and starts that I've sort of lost track of the details.

If I am at the back of the line, it's no biggie. I'm sure it will get here eventually.  :)

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:49 am 
 

I don't know of a line or where it is formed.  PM me your address.


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:50 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:One of the problems with sticking to an older version of the game is that you cannot write for the game unless you are up to date....

Another problem is that the game passes you by and there are no more tournaments, magazine articles and published modules to support you.

A third problem is that you encounter other players who want to use the new rules...and you either comply, argue or sit out.


I tried to keep my players interested in OD&D also.  I went so far as to photocopy the 3 orig rulebooks and the 3 supplements and collate them into a single rulebook.

But, for the reasons Mark mentioned, there was just no interest.  None of our players wanted to use an "old" set of the rules.

Plus, we'd also get new players who'd never seen the OD&D material ... all they knew were the AD&D books.

So I gave up and just ran AD&D, using OD&D concepts where and when I could.


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:09 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:I don't know of a line or where it is formed.  PM me your address.

Then I feel compelled to add: "woot!" I thought maybe I'd be 13th in the queue or something.

Address sent. I will instruct my postman to give the package the respect it deserves.

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:20 am 
 

I've never seen od&d either I admit.. I feel so young.. lol. I have a similar problem with AD&D vs 3.5 though. I love running planescape but converting it's a pain in the arse, i'd rather just run it in ad&d but noone wants to play ad&d... so sad. it's not thaaaat complecated... heheh..

Ooo, and keep us posted about the onlineness of the scans. I wanna see this masterpiece


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Post Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:42 am 
 

Keith the Thief wrote:I tried to keep my players interested in OD&D also.  I went so far as to photocopy the 3 orig rulebooks and the 3 supplements and collate them into a single rulebook.

When you say collate, do you mean putting all the books together into one big book, or did you actually take pieces from the supplements and put them where they belonged in the main book?

If the former, you have a game that is unwieldly if every single option is utilized.  Presented with so many different options will make people do a double-take.  After all, OD&D, while simple enough to play is an unorganized mess presentation-wise.  For example, hit locations from Blackmoor is a prime example of a system that added no tangible benefit to the game, and it's easy to see why it wasn't put into AD&D.  The Holmes Basic rule book didn't help matters.  I believe if the system was properly edited in 1976-1977 instead of being hacked down into a 48 page book (Holmes Basic Rule Book), I believe more people might give the old rule set a try and see just how similar to AD&D the final product actually became, when the most cruddy of the rules were excised from the text.

If it's the latter, I'd be curious to see your effort and compare it to mine, just to see what you kept in the core rules versus what you took out.



  

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:02 pm 
 

Traveller wrote:When you say collate, do you mean putting all the books together into one big book, or did you actually take pieces from the supplements and put them where they belonged in the main book?

If it's the latter, I'd be curious to see your effort and compare it to mine, just to see what you kept in the core rules versus what you took out.


It is the latter.  After photocopying everything, I took the parts from the supplements and copied and pasted (or Scotch-taped, to be more precise) equivalent sections together.  So, for instance, I took the monsters section from M&T and combined it with monster listings from GH, BM and EW.

I didn't use all the rules.  I distinctly remember excluding the BM combat tables and the EW psionics section.

I wish I had my compiled OD&D "book" to share, but I don't think I have it any longer.  While there's an outside chance that it's still in some obscure box among all of my parents' belongings in a storage unit, my guess is that it was lost, stolen, or thrown away by accident.   :(

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:56 pm 
 

Mine went beyond the OD&D books, in that I used things from virtually every edition of Dungeons & Dragons as well as some items (in less developed form) from The Strategic Review and Dragon magazines, and even a couple things from the SRD.  That's why I refer to mine as "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Light" in the introduction to the book.  To me though, despite the things I added or changed, it's still OD&D because even with what got added or changed, I believe I managed to avoid taking away the things that made the OD&D game great.  One thing that unfortunately did get lost in all the editing was an intangible, but something I could deal with: the charm of 5 1/2" by 8 1/2" stapled booklets in a cardboard box.

I didn't go old school (cut and paste) in putting mine together.  I used a computer, and in doing so corrected as many grammar and spelling errors that I could find.  Obviously, the final result is in PDF, though I've not printed it out right now because I actually intend to have it bound in hardcover.



  

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:08 am 
 

"AD&D Light" is a good description.  Although, in my case, we never played with it ... everyone in my group wanted to use the real AD&D books, so my version just sat there on the bookcase.

Traveller wrote:One thing that unfortunately did get lost in all the editing was an intangible, but something I could deal with: the charm of 5 1/2" by 8 1/2" stapled booklets in a cardboard box.


I agree.  I never could figure out why I loved those little books, but that was definitely an aspect of my own hybrid version, which was 8-1/2 x 11, that I missed.

Traveller wrote:I didn't go old school (cut and paste) in putting mine together.  I used a computer ...


I created mine in 1982 and I didn't have access to a computer.  So I had to go old school, at my old school, as it were.

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:55 am 
 

There is a certain charm to the arcane nature of all the old D&D books.  They looked wierd enough to stand out from other books.  The original artists also gave the game its amateur feel that was a part of its attraction....it felt like our own shared secret.

The comic book appearance of some of the art in the new stuff is one major reason that some old timers do not like 3.5.

I would have liked AD&D even better if the covers of the hardbacks had been brown parchment-like stuff....resembling the OD&D books.

That was also certainly a part of the charm of the Arduin books....that and Otis and Morno's artwork.

Mark  8)


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:16 pm 
 

bump


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:37 pm 
 

Is this old thing still being passed around?  If so, I'd like a shot at it.


And setting aside the whore, for a moment, is the book available as well?


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:21 pm 
 

Me too.  

I'd be interested in getting a look at the wisdom contained in this old tome.


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:30 pm 
 

I have been prevented from getting to the post office any of the past five or so weekdays.

The Perelman Player's Handbook is set to be mailed off to Xaxaxe as soon as I can get a moment.

It is a very interesting read...even as just an early print of the PHB.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:35 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:The Perelman Player's Handbook is set to be mailed off to Xaxaxe as soon as I can get a moment.

Woot!

I won't keep it long, I promise. I want to pretty much just scan through it.

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