Many questions on Greyhawk & Mystara . . . . ?
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:36 am 
 

I don't know (and can't find) a thread for this subject(s), so I'm sorry if this replicates anything already somewhere else.
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I was reading my copy of AC1010 Poor Wizard's Almanac when I ran into this reference on page 47, regarding the Grand Duchy of Karameikos:

See also: GAZ1 The Grand Duchy of Karameikos; BA1-9 In Search of Adventure


Now, I do have In Search of Adventure, but the code is B1-9 instead of BA1-9.  I know it doesn't seem like a big difference, but was this just a typo or what?  The copyright date, BTW, is 1992.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:17 pm 
 

Typo.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:33 pm 
 

I thought it might be some U.K./Australian version with the different codes--I was wrong......

Something else . . . on the map of T1 The Village of Hommlet, I notice a road/path at the far right of the map, beyond the keep-under-construction, which supposedly is overgrown and goes to the moathouse at the end of the module.  It goes more or less northeast, with the main road going east (using normal map conventions of "north" at the top of the map).

Now, when I look at the map in T1-4 The Temple of Elemental Evil, it looks like the main road now seems to "dissolve" out of existance as you get closer to the Temple itself, while the road which supposedly is "an overgrown track" to the destroyed moathouse is now the main road to Nulb.  

Then, as I get to (T5-7)Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, the road to the moathouse isn't even on the larger map of Hommlet at all, and the main road of T1 still seems to dissolve out of existance before one gets to the Temple itself (with no connection to Nulb in any way I can see in either Temple of E.E. or Return to the Temple . . .), but the "other" road to Nulb is still there.
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:55 am 
 

Howdy,


That is an artifact of the evolution the adventure series took. After the World of Greyhawk Setting Folio was written, Gary created a new campaign setting away from the City of Greyhawk but still related to it geographically. This was to bring new lesser experienced players into the fold. The upper level, more experienced players who had adventured to the very bottom depths of Greyhawk Castle were not to be involved.

However, a winter storm, a steep hill, and boredom threw a wrench in the works. So it ended up that Robilar blew up the whole campaign by releasing Zuggutmoy. Gary, though he allowed Rob to play, regretted it, as it spoiled the plot of the Temple Proper. This is one of the primary reasons Gary never pursued the campaign any further. It's the standard story of players foiling the hard work of their DM.

Then in the spring of 1980, Frank Mentzer convinced Gary to write T2 up. Gary wanted to make Lolth the major baddie for the adventure in place of Zuggutmoy. He started planting seeds of this in T1 and cultivated the idea for the T2 ms. However, given that the ultimate end game of Q1, as envisioned by the heavy handed editing/development crew for Q1 (not Dave Sutherland himself), seemed to be Lolth's demise, Gary felt he could no longer use Lolth. Thus the Lolth references were stripped out of the ms. for T1, save the one under the description for Lareth, and Zuggutmoy once again took her place as the main villain.

Gary had at this point a 300 page ms. for T2 but being so busy with many projects he turned it over to Frank Mentzer. Frank did his best to amalgamate all of the different visions of the place, restoring Zuggotmoy as the main bad gal, keeping a reason for Lolth to be interested in the place, and trying to finish the whole with the Elemental Nodes, the Yellowskull, and throwing Iuz in for good measure. However, he and Gary never did connect on the fact that an Elder Elemental God was to be somewhere beneath the four levels Gary had already created (there were to be eight levels) and that through their folly, players could loose the being into this universe.

So, the end product has a number of artifacts left over from the various visions of this adventure. Indeed, the maps are included in this for the original map of the area was far more compact, with the Velverdyva being only 600 yards north of Nulb and the Temple being in the hills above Nulb but not in the Gnarley Forest. The Gnarley Forest actually coming up, in-between Nulb and Hommlet. Clearly this version predates the finished version of the Darlene maps tht went into the Folio.

In the published version of T1 the proper arrangement has the Moathouse but 3 miles from Hommlet, Nulb 6 miles from Hommlet, and the Temple 21 miles from the Moathouse. The Village of Hommlet is only 30 miles Southeast of Verbobonc.

This spatial arrangement is multiplied by as much as five times on the T1-4 area maps on the front cover of the map booklet. These maps are totally FUBARed and don't even have the merest relationship to the original campaign maps nor the spatial arrangement outlined in the text of T1. My recommendation is to not use them. Use the text from T1 and create your own. I am working on a map that takes into account the T1 text and adjucating it by using the original campaign map (I had but a glimpse of this at LGGC last summer but it answered many questions).

One day, hopefully, I'll get a chance to see the T2 ms. and will be able to answer more questions.


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:04 am 
 

I am working on a map that takes into account the T1 text and adjucating it by using the original campaign map
.
"Adjucating" ===>> "adjusting"?

  


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:32 pm 
 

Was T1-4 originally supposed to be four (or more) separate modules (like the A series) that were to be linked together, or was the T2 that you mentioned the end of that series, or something else?

And, on the original maps, then the Temple was supposed to be beyond Nulb by about 15-20 miles, instead of between Hommlet and Nulb like it is on the  T1-4 maps . . . No wonder I'm confused :!:

  


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:40 am 
 

Change of subject (slightly) --

(A)  I have been looking for any copy of AC5, but have not seen one even for sale; I know it exists, but has anyone else even seen one?

(B)  Any idea(s) why it has been so hard to find certain of the 1e modules like I7, I8, GDQ1-7, H3, B9, B10, CM3, and CM6?  Seems to me, particularly with the B and I series, those would have been the easiest to find.

(C)  Were there any other 1e D&D/AD&D modules that were set in the "Conan the Barbarian" world?  I already have CB1, CB2, and RS1, but I seem to recall there was one or two others up for sale and I can't find them.

(D)  Didn't I also see or hear about a module which was Australian?

  


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:47 am 
 

sleepyCO wrote:(A)  I have been looking for any copy of AC5, but have not seen one even for sale; I know it exists, but has anyone else even seen one?

There used to be a certain UK feline — a panther? a leopard? a cheetah? ... I can't remember — who somehow got his paws on a bunch of these and sold them over the course of a few weeks. This would have been quite a while ago, though.

Other copies have been seen and scooped up on eBay since then, often (of course) by Acaeum members.

And here's a fairly interesting thread that discusses how there might even be two distinct versions of AC5. 8O

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:04 am 
 

Since mine is collecting dust, I'd be happy to part with it. I forget if it is the first or second print.


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:29 am 
 

sleepyCO wrote:
(B)  Any idea(s) why it has been so hard to find certain of the 1e modules like I7, I8, GDQ1-7, H3, B9, B10, CM3, and CM6?  Seems to me, particularly with the B and I series, those would have been the easiest to find.


Some modules seem to have smaller print runs than others...the ones you mention certainly call under that category (I'd also throw in C3, N4, B11, X10 and a few others).  In the case of certain modules like GDQ1-7 it's the fact it presents the "classic" AD&D path of 1st edition modules that is much nicer to have in one giant collected editon; for items like B10, these are hard to find with counters, large map, inner sleeve, AND handouts all intact.  In the case of I7, for some reason it's always been hard to find, I think it may be a combination of a decent adventure with smaller than normal print run, but who knows. So I guess a variety of factors are what leads to certain early modules being harder to find than others...

(C)  Were there any other 1e D&D/AD&D modules that were set in the "Conan the Barbarian" world?  I already have CB1, CB2, and RS1, but I seem to recall there was one or two others up for sale and I can't find them.


There was a Conan RPG put out by TSR that had three modules (CN1-3) but they were set in the game world of the Conan RPG which was not the same as AD&D.

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:55 pm 
 

Most of the modules you are looking for were the unfortunate victims of the end of 1e ad&d (even though the b and x series are for basic D&D). As 2e approached TSR radically reduced print runs on later 1e products to pave the way for the glorious coming of 2ed.

Also, people simply were not buying them because the 2e cat was out of the bag and why buy 1e stuff when 2e was right around the corner  - I am sure local retailers slashed their 1e orders to make room for 2e stuff.

The B/X-series suffered huge reductions in sales after around B7/X5. Simply, nobody was buying even though several of the products were superior (imho).


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:50 am 
 

Referring to AC5:

Deadlord39 wrote:Since mine is collecting dust, I'd be happy to part with it. I forget if it is the first or second print.


Deadlord, does that above offer still stand? I'm still looking--particularly after losing an auction for AC5.
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Now, I do have In Search of Adventure, but the code is B1-9 instead of BA1-9.
 (From one of my earlier posts--sleepy719.)

One last question on B1-9:  So if I understand right, B1-9 and BA1-9 are the same module; is B/X1-9 also the same module?

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:43 am 
 

Different subject:  Does anyone know why the Dungeon Masters' Design Kit does NOT have a code letter/number (such as AC12 or REF7) on it?  It has a cover from the Greyhawk-era covers (color strip across the top with TSR number in upper right corner and code in upper left), but no code.
Also what happened to the Dungeon Masters' Adventure Log?  Did it just disappear or was it "folded" into something else?

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:38 pm 
 

In the original post on this thread, I wondered:

sleepyCO wrote:Now, I do have In Search of Adventure, but the code is B1-9 instead of BA1-9.  I know it doesn't seem like a big difference, but was this just a typo or what?  The copyright date, BTW, is 1992.


The original question was answered; now what I'm asking is this:
Are there three different codes for In Search of Adventure -- B1-9, B/A1-9 (or BA1-9), and BX1-9??  And any idea why (regional differences, etc.)?

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:03 pm 
 

sleepyCO wrote:In the original post on this thread, I wondered:



The original question was answered; now what I'm asking is this:
Are there three different codes for In Search of Adventure -- B1-9, B/A1-9 (or BA1-9), and BX1-9??  And any idea why (regional differences, etc.)?


No, there is only one which is B1-9.  It is a compilation of all(well at least most of) of the Basic(thus the B) modules from B1- B9.  A Stands for advanced and X Stands for Expert. See here:

http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/super.html

And here:

http://www.acaeum.com/library/module_codes.html


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