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Post Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:12 pm 
 

Hi All,



I recently bought something on Ebay from Cougarrinard (yes, I know, but it was cheap, even with the postage).



And although I paid immediately, meeting his terms all the way, I got:



"I have recently been advised by fellow Ebay Powersellers to change my

feedback procedure.  Therefore I will only leave feedback after you have,

this ensures that you get the parcel, we both get feedback, and tells me

when everythings concluded. "



A touch of twisting your arm, I think.



Cheers,

Malcolm

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:04 pm 
 

They need to do something about the whole feedback issue anyways. I got a negative the other day because I questioned why I paid $4.50 for an item that cost $2.42 to send (and I'm being generous and allowing $1 for the paper mailer). He changed his story a few times, but eventually he said:



Paypal fee: .72

eBay fee: .55



Anyways, he decided to give me a negative and I had told him I wasn't leaving ANY feedback! Naturally I responded in kind, and am taking the extra measure of reporting his "paypal fee" to eBay, since it is against eBay policy to charge a Paypal fee to winning bidders, and no fee was mentioned.


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Post Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:23 pm 
 

Frank, I noticed that the auction you mentioned states $4.50 shipping. When you bid on it you agreed to the shipping he charges, even if he is putting some profit in his pocket. He did not state that it would be shipped Priority. What was there to complain about? :?

  

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:33 pm 
 

Not a bad idea that Cougarrinard has.  It helps in preventing a buyer from giving negative feedback for a trivial reason.  Seems to me that people sometimes get awfully trigger-happy with the negatives.  They are supposed to be used as a last resort when no other solution can be agreed upon.



I've found that most sellers, if given the chance, will make a situation right rather than sustain a negative "hit".  Cougarrinard has nothing to gain by giving a customer a negative unless the customer did something that warranted it.  He's been doing the ebay thing for a long time.  Plus he wants the business again!



Just my 2-cents.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:46 am 
 

dbartman wrote:Not a bad idea that Cougarrinard has.  It helps in preventing a buyer from giving negative feedback for a trivial reason.  Seems to me that people sometimes get awfully trigger-happy with the negatives.  They are supposed to be used as a last resort when no other solution can be agreed upon.



I've found that most sellers, if given the chance, will make a situation right rather than sustain a negative "hit".  Cougarrinard has nothing to gain by giving a customer a negative unless the customer did something that warranted it.  He's been doing the ebay thing for a long time.  Plus he wants the business again!

Just my 2-cents.


My two euro  :wink:  cents:



- about shipping and fees: when I sell something, I write clearly that the buyer will pay EVERY expense and fee associated with the auction and I use a standard refund of 5% fo total dues. I think it's fair. When somebody tells me to add Paypal fees after I win something, I accept this without any problems. I agree with the fact that if an auction text states "Buyer will pay X dollars for shipping" then the buyer can't complain after winning the auction. This because when (s)he bids, (s)he agrees to the auction terms including shipping charges.

- about feedback: I always leave feedback as soon as I'm paid. I expect sellers I buy from doing the same. Paying promptly and giving all the necessary data is my part of the transaction and when I complete this, then I deserve the feedback. As soon as the items reach me, seller too has completed his/her part and I leave feedback.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 7:05 pm 
 

If there are two areas on ebay that are guaranteed to provoke discussion, it's feedback and shipping charges!



I sell very little so neither is an issue for me, but I'll share my views - as a seller I leave feedback when I know the buyer is happy with the item. Usually that's when I see feedback from the buyer indicating this, but it can also be through email - a couple of times I've received an email saying thanks for the item, and I'll then go leave feedback for them. I just feel that after I receive the money and post the item off, there are still many ways for the transaction to go south. Like if I've described the item as being in 'very good' condition, which on my scale is no rips, no writing, nothing missing, and all books/covers in reasonably good condition (ie it probably has a couple of scuff marks, wear on the spine, maybe a corner fold)... it's possible that the buyer's idea of VGC is substantially different to mine and when he gets the item, he's unhappy and starts demanding all sorts of recompense.



I only ever charge actual shipping - whatever I pay for stamps and bubble wrap envelopes. But I don't have a problem with those who add a couple of bucks for handling - it's their choice. I PREFER to buy from sellers who only charge actual shipping, but if I buy from a seller who charges handling, I just factor it in to my bid price - eg if an item is worth $20 to me, and I see in the auction the seller is charging $6 for shipping when I know the postage will run to $2-3, my max bid will be $17.



What I don't like is those buyers who request feedback from you after they've paid.... they email something like "I just deposited $xx into your account, so please leave me positive feedback for being such a smug prick".



Regards



Mike

  

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:21 am 
 

As a frequent Ebay seller (five years and +2500 feedback) I have done best by having standardized shipping fees rather than actual fees. It makes if much easier for both myself and the buyer to say an item is going to be "x" amount upfront and not have to worry about the actual shipping later. I myself don't bid on items that don't have shipping amount listed....you're just asking for trouble.

    As a seller, I immediately leave positive feedback upon recent of payment.  The buyer has done his part....paid for the item...and he deserves immediate positive feedback.  Since I have had only 4 negative feedbacks in five years vs over 2500 positives, I can say that it hasn't hurt me one bit to ingratiate myself to a customer by leaving immediate positive feedback. To offset possible negatives I often downgrade my product to avoid condition battles...and in doing so have gotten a reputation for selling items "Nicer than described!" which helps out a lot, and I don't feel I've left a lot of money on the table doing it that way.

    I myself will not do repeat business with a seller that either waits for my feedback or doesn't leave feedback at all.  It shows me either their product description or service isn't always going to deserve positive feedback...they must be afraid of something.  And to state the obvious, does anyone ever do business with sellers with excessive negative feedback?  I'm talking like over 2% total.....that's right, 2%.  I won't do business with anyone over 2% total feedback, it really adds up when you think about it (someone with 2000 positive, for example, can't have over 40 negatives...which I think is a hell of a lot anyway).  



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Post Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:45 am 
 

Badmike wrote:As a frequent Ebay seller (five years and +2500 feedback) I have done best by having standardized shipping fees rather than actual fees.


As a side note, I'd like to commend Mike (and not because he is of Italian descent  :wink: ) for his efficient and reliable selling system. I am always extremely careful when doing non EBay transaction (hey, no protection!), but I must say Mike is very good.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:38 am 
 

I thought it was normal for the buyer to give positive feedback before the the seller. The transaction isnt complete until the seller has the goods, giving feedback on receiving payment seems premature. What if it gets lost in the post?

  

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:52 am 
 

Hi All,



if something gets lost in the post, what has that to do with how the buyer performed?



Cheers,

malcolm

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Post Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:48 am 
 

nn wrote:I thought it was normal for the buyer to give positive feedback before the the seller. The transaction isnt complete until the seller has the goods, giving feedback on receiving payment seems premature. What if it gets lost in the post?




I'm going to TOTALLY disagree with this notion.  The feedback the seller leaves is based upon whether the buyer has communicated promptly and clearly, and whether the buyer paid in a timely manner - these are the duties of the buyer!  If the buyer does these things, they deserve positive feedback.  They Seller has a much higher burden, and the buyer leaving positive feedback should have ZERO bearing on what feedback the seller leaves.



When I sell on ebay, I leave feedback immediately upon receiving payment - when that happens, the buyer has fulfilled his part of the contract and deserves positive feedback.  As a buyer, I expect feedback within a day or so of paying.



Paul


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:53 am 
 

tec-9-7 wrote:
nn wrote:I thought it was normal for the buyer to give positive feedback before the the seller. The transaction isnt complete until the seller has the goods, giving feedback on receiving payment seems premature. What if it gets lost in the post?




I'm going to TOTALLY disagree with this notion.  The feedback the seller leaves is based upon whether the buyer has communicated promptly and clearly, and whether the buyer paid in a timely manner - these are the duties of the buyer!  If the buyer does these things, they deserve positive feedback.  They Seller has a much higher burden, and the buyer leaving positive feedback should have ZERO bearing on what feedback the seller leaves.



When I sell on ebay, I leave feedback immediately upon receiving payment - when that happens, the buyer has fulfilled his part of the contract and deserves positive feedback.  As a buyer, I expect feedback within a day or so of paying.



Paul




I agree with Paul 100%, and that is how I also do business.  When I buy an item and send the payment promptly, I've done my part...now the seller needs to do his and get me the item.  I won't do repeat business with sellers who won't leave feedback until I leave them feedback first.



Mike B.

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:29 am 
 

sorry wrong forum

  


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Post Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 4:54 am 
 

My point has nothing to do with not wanting to go first with feedback.



Its that the transaction is not over until the buyer has confirmed safe receipt of the goods.



What if the seller does everything right but Mr. Postman screws up, and then the buyer throws a hissy fit and gives negative feedback for non-delivery?

  


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Post Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:45 am 
 

It's called insurance...



If the buyer pays, then he has done his part. Feedback should be left.



Otherwise, if you withhold his Feedback until he gives you a positive feedback- you are a "Feedback Nazi." And, that is the last time we do business with you. And no, I will not leave any feedback for the seller who plays these games.



5th Grade ended years ago- sadly some never matured past that playground mentality.



Just my thoughts...

  


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Post Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:17 am 
 

Ok then, how about



1. buyer confirms receipt

2. seller gives +ve feedback

3. buyer gives +ve feedback

  


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:50 am 
 

nn:



I would have to agree with you, and strongly disagree that payment is the buyer's only duty in the transaction.



I don't think the transaction is over until the buyer e-mails you to tell you the item is received in the condition specified in the auction.  If a seller waits until the buyer acknowledges proper receipt of the item, it makes it much more likely that the buyer will contact the seller to let them know if there are problems and try to work the situation out.  If the seller has already given positive feedback, the buyer has no reason not to just leave a negative for the hell of it.  I don't see anything wrong with waiting to give positive until the buyer receives the item and indicates, through e-mail that they are satisfied with the item.  At that point, the seller should be the first to leave the positive.



Just my 2 cents...   :D


Dere Fritoad, Two badd yoo copped outt so sooon lazt nighgt. Mised som grooovy trps. Hoap th rring thinng wurcs out awrighgt. Peece, Timm  PS Hear ar som outt of sihgt stash I'm laying onn yoo guyz. Must sine off as rush iss cocomcoming ohgodohgod$#%*@!

  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:01 am 
 

foster1969 wrote:nn:



I would have to agree with you, and strongly disagree that payment is the buyer's only duty in the transaction.



I don't think the transaction is over until the buyer e-mails you to tell you the item is received in the condition specified in the auction.  If a seller waits until the buyer acknowledges proper receipt of the item, it makes it much more likely that the buyer will contact the seller to let them know if there are problems and try to work the situation out.  If the seller has already given positive feedback, the buyer has no reason not to just leave a negative for the hell of it.  I don't see anything wrong with waiting to give positive until the buyer receives the item and indicates, through e-mail that they are satisfied with the item.  At that point, the seller should be the first to leave the positive.



Just my 2 cents...   :D




In 5 years of selling on Ebay, I find buyers very seldom leave negative feedback "for the hell of it".  Usually the seller has screwed things up somehow.  I do ask all my buyers to let me know when the item arrives, but that is mostly for bookkeeping purposes, I don't make that contingent on feedback. However, I don't have any problems with your method (waiting for buyer to acknowledge receipt before leaving feedback).  I do have problems with the seller that won't, after recieving my payment, bother to send feedback until I leave him positive feedback after recieving the item (whether or not I'm satisfied with the product/service, although my threshold is actually pretty low for satisfaction).  

  BTW, if you want to post deserved negative feedback, but don't want unwarranted retalitory feedback, use the method I always use:  On Ebay You can leave feedback for up to 90 days, count ahead on your calender and leave feedback after 89 days and 20-23 hours...the deserving recipient will rarely have time to retaliate before his window of opportunity for leaving feedback is cut off entirely, and has likely completely forgotten the transaction anyway.



Mike B.

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:16 am 
 

Mike:

I agree with you that sellers should not hold positive feedback hostage.  I just think that waiting for acknowledgment of receipt encourages buyers to attempt to work things out before pulling the negative trigger.  Sometimes honest mistakes happen.  When the buyer states he has the item then it is the seller's duty to provide positive feedback.



I've thought about the 89 day thing, but I just can't seem to hold a grudge that long!!!   :D   Plus, I always forget. :x   You should consider yourself thoroughly evil for even considering it!!!  :wink:  It would be fun to be a fly on the wall when they go to retaliate though...   :twisted:


Dere Fritoad, Two badd yoo copped outt so sooon lazt nighgt. Mised som grooovy trps. Hoap th rring thinng wurcs out awrighgt. Peece, Timm  PS Hear ar som outt of sihgt stash I'm laying onn yoo guyz. Must sine off as rush iss cocomcoming ohgodohgod$#%*@!

  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:26 am 
 

foster1969 wrote:Mike:

I agree with you that sellers should not hold positive feedback hostage.  I just think that waiting for acknowledgment of receipt encourages buyers to attempt to work things out before pulling the negative trigger.  Sometimes honest mistakes happen.  When the buyer states he has the item then it is the seller's duty to provide positive feedback.



I've thought about the 89 day thing, but I just can't seem to hold a grudge that long!!!   :D   Plus, I always forget. :x   You should consider yourself thoroughly evil for even considering it!!!  :wink:  It would be fun to be a fly on the wall when they go to retaliate though...   :twisted:




LOL...well, I've been told I can hold a grudge!  Although truthfully you really have to piss me off to get that treatment. Like when a buyer wins an item, never sends payment, never sends any sort of contact, and then turns up later bidding on other items (or the same item!) on Ebay.  That can torque me off enough to wait the 89 days......



Mike B.

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