New Chainmail Research
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 21, 2
Author


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 754
Joined: Feb 05, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 31, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:43 pm 
 

Howdy All,


Here is a little research I've been putting together. Just confirmed one, possibly two, new printings. Bon appetit:

1st Edition
·        First (March 1971)
o        Published by Guidon Games -- no company address listed
o        62 total pages (47 numbered pages)
o        Binding is stapled with two staples
o        Cover is leather-textured tan-yellow with a white interior
o        Contrary to rumor, the 15-page Fantasy Supplement is indeed present
o        While this version has 12 more pages than later prints, this is almost entirely due to the font size and formatting used.  In fact, this version contains only six spells, which were expanded in later prints

Image

2nd Edition
·        First (May 1972)
o        Published by Guidon Games -- address of the company is Evansville, Indiana (on the copyright page)
o        48 total pages (35 numbered pages); font size is now smaller and easier to read
o        Binding is stapled with four staples
o        Cover is identical to 1st
o        Incorporated rule changes first published in 1971, issue #11 of the Domesday newsletter (LGTSA Medieval Miniatures: Rules Changes by Gary Gygax, pg. 16)
o        Spell list expanded to 8 spells adding moving terrain and protection from evil
o        Catalog added, includes Wargamer's Guide to Afrika Korps $2.00, Chainmail $2.00, Tractics $7.50, Hardtack $2.00, Fast Rules $2.00, Don't Give Up the Ship $2.00

Image

·        Second (May 1972)
o        Published by Guidon Games -- address of the company is Belfast, Maine (on the copyright page)
o        48 total pages (35 numbered pages); font size is now smaller and easier to read
o        Binding is stapled with two staples
o        Cover is now a smooth yellow-orange medium weight stock and is the same color on the inside
o        Incorporated rule changes first published in the Domesday newsletter (unknown issue, but the corrections appear on page 16 of that issue)
o        Spell list expanded to 8 spells adding moving terrain and protection from evil
o        Catalog now includes Wargamer's Guide to Afrika Korps $2.00, Wargamer's Guide to Battle of the Bulge $2.00, Chainmail $2.00, Tractics $7.50, Hardtack $2.00, Fast Rules $2.00, Don't Give Up the Ship $2.00

Image

·        Third (July 1973)
o        Published by Guidon Games -- address of the company is Belfast, Maine (on the copyright page)
o        48 total pages (35 numbered pages)
o        Binding is stapled with two staples
o        Cover is now a smooth bright yellow medium weight stock and is the same color on the inside
o        Incorporated rule changes first published in the Domesday newsletter (unknown issue, but the corrections appear on page 16 of that issue)
o        Spell list expanded to 8 spells adding moving terrain and protection from evil
o        Catalog now includes Wargamer's Guide to Afrika Korps $2.50, Wargamer's Guide to Battle of the Bulge $2.50, Wargamer's Guide to Stalingrad $2.50, Chainmail $2.50, Tractics $7.50, Hardtack $2.50, Fast Rules $1.50, Don't Give Up the Ship $2.50, Grosstaktik $2.50, Ironclad $2.50, Tricolor $3.00

Image

However, there might be an earlier 2nd edition printing than the 1st from the much disputed auction or late. I have extrapolated the following from the auction, questions to the seller, and from additional photo's provided by the seller (and kindly forwarded to me by Stephen, aka bombadil):

·        2nd, Variant (? 1972)
o        Published by Guidon Games -- address of the company is Evansville, Indiana (on the copyright page)
o        48 total pages (35 numbered pages); font size is now smaller and easier to read
o        Binding is stapled with four staples
o        Cover is identical to 1st -- it does not state 2nd Edition
o        Incorporated rule changes first published in 1971, issue #11 of the Domesday newsletter (LGTSA Medieval Miniatures: Rules Changes by Gary Gygax, pg. 16)
o        Spell list expanded to 8 spells adding moving terrain and protection from evil
o        Catalog added, includes Wargamer's Guide to Afrika Korps $2.00, Chainmail $2.00, Tractics $7.50, Hardtack $2.00, Fast Rules $2.00, Don't Give Up the Ship $2.00

Image

Unless another one is found this may just be a hastily put together prototype with a 1st Edition cover leftover or a replacement cover for a damaged 2nd Edition cover. In any case the picture seems a bit glossy and may be a photocopy. However, without phsically looking at the book I am unsure. It is interesting to note that, this copy has 4 staples according to the seller - just like the 2nd Edition, 1st printing listed above. It is an unusual arrangement, 2 staples bind the text block together and 2 staples bind the cover to the text block, that is not repeated in the 1st edition or any of the later ones. That leads me to believe that the set was put together by the same individual(s) or company as did the 2nd edition, 1st print listed above -- and that is certainly a legitimate copy.

So what we have has to be something done by Lowry or his printer - time will tell if it is an actual printing with more than one copy was made, a hybrid to make up for missing or damaged covers, or a prototype from the printer.

Well that's it for now. I'll have some additional information on my continued Chainmail research for the TSR edition as well.


Futures Bright,

Paul


The Collector's Trove The online auction house that features the collections of game designers and artists.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5626
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:18 pm 
 

Excellent information! I asked the seller about it myself, and he told me that you bought it from him via private deal after the auction was ended, so perhaps some of the cobwebs will be cleared soon.
It will probably turn out to be an aberration. As was typical with TSR, they probably had extra 1E covers and wanted to use them to save money.


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 754
Joined: Feb 05, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 31, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:28 pm 
 

Howdy Frank,


Deadlord39 wrote:Excellent information! I asked the seller about it myself, and he told me that you bought it from him via private deal after the auction was ended, so perhaps some of the cobwebs will be cleared soon.
It will probably turn out to be an aberration. As was typical with TSR, they probably had extra 1E covers and wanted to use them to save money.


Yep, if anyone had noticed, I had already bought the heretofore undiscovered 2nd/2nd from the same seller a few weeks before. Long after all of the hubbub died down he emailed me to ask if I wanted to buy the 2nd variant since I had bought the other one from him. When I get a look at the copy, I hope to shed some light about what it is. I'll update the images when I can get them.

The 2nd/2nd I bought from him previously is exactly like another I have. I thought there might be a difference and so bought it. Alas, no different than my 2nd/2nd other than condition. However, it did confirm that the 2nd/2nd I already possessed was a legitimate printing with more than one in existence.


Futures Bright,

Paul


The Collector's Trove The online auction house that features the collections of game designers and artists.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5626
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:50 pm 
 

So it appears there are 3 printings of the 2nd ed., and possibly a 4th. Weird. I would guess the 1E cover/2E booklet is a rogue. Hard to tell since no other has popped up.
Out of curiosity, why post the update now? Why not wait until the hybrid arrived to confirm what the seller said was true?


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3795
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 15, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:45 pm 
 

Yeah, I thought that last variant looked like the one from the auction that got pulled while I was high bidder.  If I recall correctly, the seller had at least one offer right after the auction was pulled.  He wanted to know if I was still interested in it.


Let mirth prevail!

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector

Posts: 1107
Joined: Dec 04, 2005
Last Visit: Mar 15, 2016

Post Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:05 pm 
 

staples crazy uneven has two folding creases and title line curved but book possibly too = may be totally duplicated. have seen pirate original dungeons and dragons rules and chainmails

  


Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6463
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:15 pm 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:staples crazy uneven has two folding creases and title line curved but book possibly too = may be totally duplicated. have seen pirate original dungeons and dragons rules and chainmails


Huh?


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5626
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:32 pm 
 

He means it's a forgery, Brian. It's entirely possible it was compiled way back when they first came out by someone who damaged their 1st print copy, or some such, and bought a 2nd, but liked the first print cover.
A forgery is a strong possibility I think, given the fact that no other copy has ever been seen. I can't think of any other D&D item which was mass produced that is singular right now.


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  

User avatar

Verbose Collector

Posts: 1107
Joined: Dec 04, 2005
Last Visit: Mar 15, 2016

Post Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:33 pm 
 

like deadlored says. inside may be fake too and if not on ebay then with no guarantee

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5626
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:00 am 
 

Indeed.


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3795
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 15, 2021

Post Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:14 am 
 

Which is why I didn't pursue it.


Let mirth prevail!

  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 754
Joined: Feb 05, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 31, 2021

Post Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:08 am 
 

Howdy Frank,


Deadlord39 wrote:So it appears there are 3 printings of the 2nd ed., and possibly a 4th. Weird. I would guess the 1E cover/2E booklet is a rogue. Hard to tell since no other has popped up.
Out of curiosity, why post the update now? Why not wait until the hybrid arrived to confirm what the seller said was true?


Eh, I was going through my Chainmail prints to find out what I had extras of to sell or trade, comparing and contrasting condition and what else, and started looking at the Acaeum information, started picking out information to be corrected, my new scanner glinted in the monitor light... It was either this or grade sale items for hours on end.

The thing should have been here by now anyway. Hmmm...


Futures Bright,

Paul


The Collector's Trove The online auction house that features the collections of game designers and artists.

 WWW  

User avatar

Verbose Collector

Posts: 1107
Joined: Dec 04, 2005
Last Visit: Mar 15, 2016

Post Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:41 pm 
 

confirmed genuine? any more scans please.
viewtopic.php?t=4726

  


Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6463
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021

Post Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:44 pm 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:confirmed genuine? any more scans please.
viewtopic.php?t=4726


Hey there, perhaps an introduction is in order. :)


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5626
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:07 pm 
 

Introduced in Quest for Glory, one of the best game series ever developed.


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6463
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021

Post Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:08 pm 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:Introduced in Quest for Glory, one of the best game series ever developed.


Thats not reallt what I had in mind. :?


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5626
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:11 pm 
 

I'm curious to see what the marketing scheme is for the unconfirmed "undiscovered 2nd print". Seems a bit presumptuous to call it a new printing, though I suppose it will reel in the noobies. Perhaps add in a few photocopied character sheets?


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 754
Joined: Feb 05, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 31, 2021

Post Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:46 am 
 

Howdy,


Deadlord39 wrote:I'm curious to see what the marketing scheme is for the unconfirmed "undiscovered 2nd print". Seems a bit presumptuous to call it a new printing, though I suppose it will reel in the noobies. Perhaps add in a few photocopied character sheets?


Wrong tree pardner'. Look at the research posted above.  :arrow:  :roll:

The one I have up for auction is a 2nd, 2nd - that's a new and confirmed print. The Acaeum currently lists only a 2nd, 1st and a 2nd, 2nd. Neither matches the new 2nd, 2nd I list above. The one up for auction falls in between those two. I have a copy and I bought a copy just recently to confirm it. Now I am selling the extra one.

This has nothing to do with the other 2nd variant with the 1st ed cover. That one is still unconfirmed. I just added that into the mix since I was adding to the research.

And you are right there is a "marketing scheme" to calling it an undiscovered print but it is to draw the attention of experienced collectors not to trick new collectors. Besides I think it would be too esoteric for new collectors to be interested in.

Check out the listing, it's up by now, then it will make sense.


Futures Bright,

Paul


The Collector's Trove The online auction house that features the collections of game designers and artists.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5626
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:52 am 
 

Confirmed? By who?


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3795
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 15, 2021

Post Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:21 am 
 

Paul, can you provide more details on what is meant by the following statement in the Chainmail auction?

The cover stock, printing offset, and catalog all vary from both the earlier 2nd ed., 1st print and the 2nd ed., 3rd print


Thanks,
Stephen


Let mirth prevail!

  
Next
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 21, 2