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Warduke
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FormCritic
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:01 am

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... /20060414a

A history of Warduke!

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

bbarsh
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:06 am

You have to love how they belittle an 8th level fighter (d&d system, not ad&d) then extolling the virtues of some 18th aberration from 3rd edition. There is a difference between powerful characters and power gaming - a concept the author seems to have missed.

The entire concept of these "look back" articles comes off as more of an indictment of how crappy earlier editions of d&d are versus this supposed crowning achievement called 3rd edition.

And I am not trying to make anything about Warduke legit. I don't know about you guys but when that entire LGN line came out, I cringed...oh crap...plastic toys will really improve the image of gaming.

So now we get some crappy column extolling the good old days by focusing on a subject that most of us refuse to even recognise as mainstream d&d.

And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

dcas
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:12 am

Yeah, he really is twinked out. Str 32, Con 28? In the old days we were excited when a stat got to 19.

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Deadlord
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:14 am

+3 anarchic flaming burst human bane bastard sword, and his other possessions were statted out as a dagger of venom, +3 moderate fortification adamantine ceremonial spiked half-plate.......

Ridiculous. Fire up the Playstation!

If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

bclarkie
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:27 am

Look at the demons and the comparison artwork:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... /20060626a

Look how absolutely ridiculous the artwork for 3E gets. :roll:

It goes from a decent pencil drawing of perhaps a real creature in 1E to a pumped up cartoon character in 3E. You can actually see how evil the demons look in 1st edition artwork and 3rd edition artwork makes me feel like I am watching bad Cartoon Network cartoons. How does anyone actually like this shit.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

Plaag
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:47 am

bclarkie wrote:Look at the demons and the comparison artwork:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... /20060626a

Look how absolutely ridiculous the artwork for 3E gets. It goes from a decent pencil drawing of perhaps a real creature in 1E to a pumped up cartoon character in 3E. You can actually see how evil the demons look in 1st edition artwork and 3rd edition artwork makes me feel like I am watching bad Cartoon Network cartoons. How does anyone actually like this shit.

Some of it isn't bad art, though compared to the early edition it gets a little over the top (but thats part of the culture now, what with anime, etc). For better art on Demons/Devils and Orcus check out some of the covers for Necromancer Games, at least they take the 1st edition concept and don't change it much.

ShaneG.

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Plaag
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:49 am

http://www.necromancergames.com/images/misc/rare_ca.jpg

Now that is a much better Orcus...

ShaneG.

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Plaag
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:02 am

http://goblinscomic.com/comics/20050717.jpg

Another good picture from the Goblins comic (quite funny if you haven't read it before)

Warduke: Loved the early edition, and cartoon appearance in D&D. And here is a link to the list of more Warduke information:
viewtopic.php?p=56017&highlight=warduke#56017

:lol:

ShaneG.

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bbarsh
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:56 am

bclarkie wrote:Look at the demons and the comparison artwork:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... /20060626a

Look how absolutely ridiculous the artwork for 3E gets. It goes from a decent pencil drawing of perhaps a real creature in 1E to a pumped up cartoon character in 3E. You can actually see how evil the demons look in 1st edition artwork and 3rd edition artwork makes me feel like I am watching bad Cartoon Network cartoons. How does anyone actually like this shit.

The 1e artwork is clearly superior, imho. The illustrations are more individual, whereas the 3e stuff seems incredibly generic. There was a time when D&D art was unique. Now, all rpg artwork seems canned and tired - it is all the same.

I also know that my perceptions are based on my experience. I played in the golden age when all was new. It is that collective memory that I am probably stuck in.

But to be fair, I thought 2nd artwork - most notably the phb and dmg sucked so damn bad, I had a terrible impression before I read a single word.

And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

deimos3428
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:52 pm

Deadlord39 wrote:+3 anarchic flaming burst human bane bastard sword, and his other possessions were statted out as a dagger of venom, +3 moderate fortification adamantine ceremonial spiked half-plate.......

Those strings of attributes aren't even grammatically correct. Please tell me this is a joke. Wait, please tell them this is a joke, I already know it is.

On a purely non-Edition-bashing note, why the heck are they associating Warduke with Greyhawk? Has anyone at WotC ever even played this game, or at least read its history? Oh, right. He emerged from "nowhere" after the Greyhawk Wars. Pretty lame.

bbarsh
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:26 pm

I think their view of history is:

Anything before v. 3 sucked. How could anyone miss the old AD&D when they have this game? I am thinking revisionist history.

And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

Deadlord
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:05 am

Strange. And OUR view is that anything AFTER 1E sucked. We, of course, have no basis for this view. We know nothing about gaming.

If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

deimos3428
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:27 am

bbarsh wrote:The 1e artwork is clearly superior, imho. The illustrations are more individual, whereas the 3e stuff seems incredibly generic. There was a time when D&D art was unique. Now, all rpg artwork seems canned and tired - it is all the same.

Several of the "2nd Edition" pieces look like the artist was deliberately trying to copy the original. Art students have done this for centuries with classical works, but usually they put in more effort.

As untrue to the originals as they are, the 3rd Edition pieces are at least unique interpretations. Unfortunately, style is sorely lacking: every single one is over-textured, over-detailed, and over-wrought. The outcome is artwork that is reminscent of Saturday morning cartoons. They just look silly.

The 1st edition artwork, on the other hand, is simple enough to allow the imagination to work. It's not such a hard mental leap to believe they're sketchs of real monsters, perhaps drawn with haste or from memory.

The early artists saw the monster itself. The newer ones apparently see the shape and attributes of the monsters as dictated by a stat sheet.

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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:52 am

The artwork discussion is a nice example of how "professional" or "first rate" do not really equal better when it comes to games.

I liked the old black and white art from AD&D much better than the current art.

I especially liked black and white, hand-drawn maps over the Mapmaker, Campaign Cartographer and other types of maps that are out there today.

0one's simple "blueprint" maps are a nice exception.

I suspect that the feel of the 1st edition Monster Manual pictures is the flavor of D&D that we all prefer.

Imagine how the guys who played with the original pamphlets felt about the lurid art on the cover of the AD&D Monster Manual, Players Handbook and Dungeon Masters Guide!

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

DungeonDelver
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:24 pm

Mr. Dancey, after very careful consideration sir, I've come to the conclusion that your new 3rd edition system sucks.

bbarsh
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:45 pm

MShipley88 wrote:
Imagine how the guys who played with the original pamphlets felt about the lurid art on the cover of the AD&D Monster Manual, Players Handbook and Dungeon Masters Guide!

I really don't think it was a bid deal - Eldriitch Wizardry and DDG books both had color covers with same style of art.

I guess I can't really speak for them, because I started with the Holmes set in 78 then jumped pretty quickly into AD&D.

And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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