BITD (back in the day)
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:11 am 
 

MShipley88 wrote:I have one player in my current group who routinely uses a cheater dice.

She has a d6 that is all 5's.

The thing is, she doesn't know that everyone else at the game knows she is using the cheater dice.

The lady in question usually runs some version of a sorcerer and uses the d6 to roll spell damage...sometimes rolling it twice when she doesn't have "enough dice" to make up an entire 10d6 explosion.

It has become an inside joke to the rest of us...and we chuckle to each other when she does it.

We all figure...this is a game and it is supposed to be fun.  If it isn't wrecking anyone else's fun and she's having fun, then why make an issue of it?

A couple of new players recently reported the infraction to the rest of us while the lady was away from the table.  They were surprised when we all just laughed.


That's pretty funny.  Kudos to you guys for not embarrassing her in front of everyone.  Anyway, I think the better cheat dice are the ones that don't have any ones on them (they have another 6 instead!).

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:22 am 
 

The Collector's Trove wrote:Howdy Mike,




Never let them know the secrets! EVER! (I am always tempted myself but I have made it my mantra to never divulge even after the module is over. I always regret it if I do.)


Futures Bright,

Paul


I was far more likely to do something like this than today.  But I still routinely provide players with short written histories of the areas they are adventuring in. I think it's more fun to do that and treat it as knowledge they have picked up, rather than roleplaying a lot of conversations in taverns and temples.  Plus they have something to refer back to if an incident sparks a memory of something they might have read earlier.  I find that generally I remember a lot more than my players ever do....most of the time they don't even remember how a beloved character died when I can tell them the entire last battle said character participated in.
  I think BITD I did it more as a vehicle to spark interest.  We always had a small group, maybe 5 players at the most at any one time, and I was always fearful we would lose one or more if I didn't keep their interest up.  So from time to time I would drop hints or clues out of game to the guys if I thought their interest might be waning or drifting.  This would involve stuff like in the example I gave, where I would let them in on a creature or character they ran into, to peak their interest. Or I might mention that the next adventure would be in the desert, or on a glacier, to get them thinking ahead about what kind of items/equipment/spells they would need.  It seemed to work really well with the guys I gamed with.

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:33 pm 
 

It is my experience that the DM almost always has a better memory of events than the players.

The DM has far more perspective, and players are more focused on their own characters...sort of like reading Lakota accounts of the Little Bighorn...they have a different sense of time, direction and context.

The DM *pats self on back-but really believes that he is saying* also has a lot more training in impartial thinking....since he likes and identifies with the player characters but plays the roles and perspectives of the opposition.

In my experience, the ability of D&D players to forget rules that don't favor them, misinterpret rules in their own favor and forget the factors and contexts in previous rulings is quite astonishing.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:47 am 
 

One of the interesting aspects of adventuring BITD was if you used a lot of pregen modules, like I did.  I did about 80% pregen and about 20% original, although I reworked a lot of the standards more to my style.  As you can guess with that much pregen I pretty much ran every published TSR dungeon module from the beginning up to T1-4...after that there were much more originals and less pregen, and I was starting to develop what I would consider my own style and adventuring campaign world.
   Part of the problem was time...going to college and working full time, then drinking and partying with what was left, there was little spare dungeon developing time.  Much easier just to buy the latest TSR creation and then change it up a bit and run the party through.  Dragon magazine at the time was also a big help, they had several classic adventures in the Contest series that ran throughout the years.  
    Anyway, the result of this was that my group ran through pretty much every published AD&D and D&D module, and most other groups we knew did the same.  Very seldomly a Judge's Guild product or maybe a generic type adventure (like The Companions) would make it through, but mostly everyone went through A1-4, G1-3, D1-3, T1, U1-3, C1-3, I1-6, L1-2, N1-2, S1-4, WG4-5, X1-5, B1-5, UK2-3, and the Dragon magazine adventures Citadel by the Sea, Can Seaport Be Saved, Ruins of Andril, Forest of Doom, Barnacus City of Peril; and perhaps Tegel Manor, Caverns of Thracia and Dark Tower (although due to low distribution of JG around the Texas area, I never saw any of these but Tegel Manor until later in the 80s).  Now, it's interesting to note two things:  One, the above adventures became a SHARED EXPERIENCE  and REFERENCE POINT when discussing D&D, characters, and adventures with anyone you met at a con, college gaming area, or just bumped into at the module rack at the local game store; and two, although I just named all the adventures above from memory I looked up the dates and without exception the last publication dates are in 1983-84, which could be construed to mean the years 1978-1983/84 should be considered the "Golden" years of AD&D adventuring.
BITD, gaming Conversations would go like this:
"Hey, your group gone through S3 yet?"
"Yeh, they ended up with a blaster rifle and a laser pistol but used up all the charges in Tomb ofthe Lizard King"
"Well, my group kept Blackrazor from S2 and proceeded to wipe out all the giants in G1 before I finally slapped some negative undead on them from Bone Hill, that finished off using the sword."
"yeh my group tried to keep Blackrazor too but I had it destroyed in the temple below in WG4 where Tharizdun slept"
"Cool, great idea, I should have done that!"
   BITD everyone would know EXACTLY what you meant when discussing any monster, treasure of specific hard-ass room from one of the modules mentioned above.  Everyone had someone from their group with their soul sucked out in S1.  EVeryone had a party member with the Giant Slaying Sword from G1. Everyone had fought Lareth the Beautiful in Hommlet. Everyone had tried to steal Blackrazor; Everyone had found the village of Orlane in N1 way too weird and had fought through to the Naga, etc etc.  Rather than make the game seem boring or the same it added to our enjoyment, especiallyif your group was able to accomplish something no other group did...when I was DMing that was getting from G1 all the way through Q1, which was considered quite the feather in the cap; or for players it might have been something like killing off Strahd, or mapping out the entire Isle of Dread, or takingover the Keep on the Borderlands by the end of the adventure and turning it into your own fortress.  Regardles, this COMMON POINT OF REFERENCE for the "Golden age" generation of D&Ders was a very good gauge of almost everying about you as a gamer and/or a DM.  If your group didn't finish most of these because they were getting their ass kicked and you ran away, or everyone died at the end of S1 or D3, you lost a lot of cred from your peers. If as a DM you couldn't get anyone to finish S4 or WG5 because the groups lost interest you likewise lost some gaming chops.  It said a lot about your group, or your abilities as a DM, how you handled these adventures.  Being a common reference point, you could measure performance based on what was accomplished.  Take S1 for instance: Did your entire group get wiped out in the first hallway (I knew those that did).  What a bunch of moronic losers.  Did you get fooled by the fake lich and think the dungeon was finished then? Even dumber than the guys killed in the first hallway. Did you all fall asleep and get crushed by the juggernaut later in the dungeon? Better, but still didn't close the deal.  Did you make it to the Demilich lair and got your souls sucked out?  Hey, at least you reached the finish line.  Did you actually destroy the lich?  Wow, so you cheated eh?  You expect me to believe your party just "happened" to be packing Holy Word, Forget and Shatter spells?  
    Every module mentioned had its scale, kind of like a built in 1-10 ranking based on how you did, how far you went, who you killed, and what you managed to get for treasure.  For a DM, it was how many players you killed and how you did it (style points helped).   I ALWAYS got kudos for wiping out the entire party at the end of A3 (so they could all be raised in time for the beginning of A4) since most DM's I knew either got the slave lords killed or had to rely on very artificial means to get the party captured at the end ("Everyone falls over to, uh, a previously undetectable sleep gas you get no save for")
 The point is, anyone mentioning the Giants in a group of gamers, say, in 1981 would get nods as EVERYONE knew EXACTLY what you were talking about, and EVERYONE had a different story about the same events (running into the drow seems to be a common touchstone here).  Now, the point of this ramble is that after the Golden Age, what sorts of commonality of discussion was there in this regard?  The only touchstones I can think of are, perhaps, the Dragonlance series (for those few who actually completed it) or Undermountain.  For 3rd edition? Therein lies the rub.
    Due to the plethora of material released at the adventure of D20/3rd edition, is there even a concept similar to the above?  Maybe the first "offical" WOTC set of modules? (Sunless Citadel, Forge of Fury, Nightfang spire, etc) Largest Dungeon in the World? (has anyone actually finished this?) Ptolus?  Goodman Games Dungeon Crawls? I would submit there is NO similar type of gaming experience for anyone gaming 3rd edition, due both to the amount of gaming material available and the ability to have such diverse groups that you could easily run one of the recent adventures with two totally different parties and experience no overlap.
  I guess this is one of the experiences  that the BITD guys find lacking in today's gaming and one of the reasons the "new" guys are viewed suspiciously.  How to rank these guys?  We don't know if going through Rappan Athuk is good, bad, indifferent, whatever.  Finishing the Freeport trilogy means nothing.  Both generations have no common frame of reference to bridge this gap either.
 Well, enough of the old fogey rant.  What do you think?

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:52 am 
 

 I guess this is one of the experiences  that the BITD guys find lacking in today's gaming and one of the reasons the "new" guys are viewed suspiciously.  How to rank these guys?  We don't know if going through Rappan Athuk is good, bad, indifferent, whatever.  Finishing the Freeport trilogy means nothing.  Both generations have no common frame of reference to bridge this gap either.
Well, enough of the old fogey rant.  What do you think?


It was this sort of thing that convinced me that every FRPG game needs to ship with a basic core campaign -- to generate a common core of experiences in play.  It is the thing that makes the Call of Cthulhu Dreamlands supplement a great book rather than just an excellent supplement -- a core of great scenarios that create a solid and in depth set of play experiences.  It is a model other games should emulate.

I've gone from wondering "who would buy those?" to "ok" to "a core set of scenarios is really an essential for a game base" in my thinking over the last thirty-five or so years.

And I have talking to Paul S. to thank for that.  It is his well articulated comments (part of a group of thoughts he had), that convinced me.


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:15 am 
 

There is less continuity and common experience in 3.5, that is for sure.

Did anyone else here really hate some of the classic TSR modules?

I found most of them too unworkable or too weak or just plain too silly for my campaigns.

The T series, for instance...1 was useable with modifications, but 2-4 sucked IMHO.

Also, last night one of my players tried to lecture me on how much total weath his character "should have," based on a chart in the 3.5 DM guide.

Those who criticize the 3.5 game as too player-oriented have a point.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:16 pm 
 

T1-4 was probably one of the best series produced, excluding GDQ.
As a DM, I have never been one to strip characters of wealth. If they attack a red dragon with level 5 characters and somehow kill it and gain it's hoard, kudos to them. I refuse to have a thief come along and mysteriously bypass all traps and security and make off with all of their goods. There is nothing wrong with having rich characters at low levels, if they earned it.
Nor have I been much of a "killer DM". I may have the party encounter 5 trolls at level 3, but there is ALWAYS an out in situations like this, unless the characters have been insanely stupid. It is no different than it would be in a real situation; level 10 characters may meet 5 kobolds, or 5 storm giants. My players are addicted to realism now, which works out fantastically.
Partly out of disgust with 3E, and partly for more realism, I developed my own game system. Easy enough to convert any other system to it on the fly. But if I had to pick a standard game system, it would probably be Rolemaster.


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:17 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:There is less continuity and common experience in 3.5, that is for sure.

Did anyone else here really hate some of the classic TSR modules?

I found most of them too unworkable or too weak or just plain too silly for my campaigns.

The T series, for instance...1 was useable with modifications, but 2-4 sucked IMHO.

Also, last night one of my players tried to lecture me on how much total weath his character "should have," based on a chart in the 3.5 DM guide.

Those who criticize the 3.5 game as too player-oriented have a point.

Mark   8)


If we are talking BITD, and referring to my "Golden Age" of 1978-1984, then the only pregen adventures I never ran for my characters were EX1-2 and UK1, all of which I disliked and would have not gone over well with my group.  The only adventures I recall my core group disliking or being indifferent about were C2 Ghost Tower (too many tricks/traps I think) and I3-I5 (I ran these pretty much as written, I think if I was to run them now they would be quite a bit better received because I would change them up quite a bit).  Looking back on the A-series, that would go over horrible now if I had to run it because I would find it hard to railroad the characters without scores of complaints (I had no problem hammering a plot handcuff on those guys back in the day).  
  Eveyrthing else I ran was pretty well received, luckily there seemed to be a minimum standard of quality in most of TSRs modules during that period.

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Post Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:44 pm 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:But if I had to pick a standard game system, it would probably be Rolemaster.


Far and away the most exciting combat system of any rpg - by a mile.  A completely different experience to D&D.  Shame about the magic system - but you can always tinker with it...  :)


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:07 pm 
 

I'm a huge fan of the RM combat & skill systems. I've run all my campaigns since 1993 using it. It completely changes the feel of any encounter.

Recently I took our old group through G1-G2 using AD&D combat (by request). Boy would it have been more of a challenge with RM. A system where giants are real Giants and cave trolls are real cave trolls (and little green men from Mars are real little green men from Mars).


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:15 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:The T series, for instance...1 was useable with modifications, but 2-4 sucked IMHO.

Mark   8)


I ran T1 within days of its release as I had just started a new campaign. It was great. How many freaking years did we wait for the sequal? Then it sucked. That is how my group saw it, anyway.

But I have to say, we generally enjoyed most of the other TSR modules. They were always exciting, as we really had no idea what was going to show up at the local hobby store, and we waited months in between new releases. I remember buying a new modules at a convention and running it the next day...We would actually pack up all our current campaign stuff and bring it to Gencon, Origins, etc. and then play a new module. Great fun...

I bought every module as they came out back in the day. Wasn't too hard or expensive back then. Most, if not all, made there way into my campaigns.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:31 pm 
 

To all of you --MShipley88, bad mike, etc.--you all may have hit on something, and it's a point I had not  thought of.  The fact that most of us (?) here started in some way with the first-edition modules gives (most of) us a common starting point--the Greyhawk world (and later Mystara) and all of the modules that came out.  How many of us really can relate Eberron or even Dragonlance (beyond the DL1-DL16 series) to all of us?

  Most everyone here has either played, DM'ed, and/or at least read those modules.  Yes, some were weak, some stunk, and some were good to great.  But if someone said (as done in this thread) that they had played T1 The Village of Hommlet with modifications, it would be safe to say that most of us know the module, have a basis of understanding of what is being said, and would be curious to see what changes were made.  Same with the group in Portland that still uses 1e rules 25+years later; I personally would love to find out what characters are at what levels, which ones got the farthest, which character(s) have lasted the longest (in real time)--and if any of the original characters are still around, and what 1e modules (if any,changes or not) they have gone through.  Keep telling these stories about other games and even BITD. . . this has been very interesting to read over, these last posts.

Imagine what could be, if one could bring back and update, say, DA1/DA2/DA3 by 30 years . . . or the U1-2-3 series . . .
or, what would S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks be like 30 years on?  Or, all new adventures in the Greyhawk setting, similar to 1e settings?

  


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:58 am 
 

Howdy All,


Anyone else here use the final Slavelord encounter with the poison gas in A3 or did you run the battle and let the bodies fall where they may?

I couldn't put my group through the poison gas trap, I thought it would really burn their collective butts to be railroaded like that.

Still the battle was pretty stacked against them but it was memorable one. The Slavers had all but won when the party's invisible thief, hiding under Mordrammo's throne, backstabbed him and killed him a huge cheer went up from the collected group. The battle looked grim after that but everyone hung on that last character's tactics and dice rolls. What great suspense and excitement for even those with unconscious or dying characters!

In the end all were captured alive and sent to be sacrificed to the Earth Dragon in A4. I told them at the beginning I would run it with the same time constraints as the tournament with a failure to complete the scenario being their death. I have never seen them make quicker and bolder decisions than that night. They escaped with an elapsed time of 3:58 but their dwarf fell behind and I had him roll a saving throw as the whol place collapsed and lava started to flow. He made it, tumbling down the slope of Mt. Flamenblutt only to have the party members scream to run again as lava was pouring down the slopes of the now active volcano.

Ah, good times!


Futures Bright,

Paul


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:20 am 
 

Ironically, I was wrong about which series of TSR modules I hate.  

I liked T1 Village of Hommlet...lots of fun turning on the town and looting the villagers, after slaying all of the original badguys and taking their place.  Those villagers are rich!  Otis' brother, Elmo, was always the first to die.

I never saw T2-4...or at least I can't name them off the top of my head.

I was actually talking about the Slavelords modules, A1-4.  I hated them.  A1 was just barely useable, with modifications.  The others were too clearly tournament modules with little to do and lots to be annoyed about.

I was never impressed with tournament modules...G1-D3 being massive exceptions...because they are so much larger in scope and full of interesting badguys to kill, rather than a host of artificial situations.

In my opinion, tournament modules were always too short on combat and too long on being "clever."  My players were like, "Where the hell is the adventure you mentioned?"  

With their linnear storylines and sometimes sad assumptions about player incompetence, the tournament modules often disappointed.  For instance, who the hell does not know that the first course of action one must take in any adventure is to bind, gag, search, interrogate and slay any party member controlled exclusively by the DM?  For that matter, who does not know that crazy hermits are likely to prove...crazy?

I guess that White Plume Mountain was fun...except that it also introduced a soul-sucking sword into the campaign, and had to be beefed up with more challenging monsters.   White Plume Mountain also wins the prize for "Least Challenging to a Nerd Riddle."

I agree that the Eberron and other current campaign situations lack any special interest for me.  But then....I also never adventured in the Forgotten Realms and have absolutely no attachment to them.

I actually liked the idea of the Dragonlance modules...and one can never have too many paintings of shapely breasts, thighs, bellies, butts and big hair...I think that women adventuring in their underwear is a good thing.   I just couldn't subordinate my entire campaign to someone else's game world for such an extended time.  

I have only ever really been happy in a millieu of my own creation and I have always prefered modules that could be picked up and dropped into any night's gaming.

I tend to treat published modules like a junkyard, anyway.  I pull off pieces from the rusting hulks whenever I find them useful or interesting.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:04 am 
 

sleepyCO wrote:I personally would love to find out what characters are at what levels, which ones got the farthest, which character(s) have lasted the longest (in real time)--and if any of the original characters are still around


The standard operating procedure in my own campaigns has been to start over with new characters whenever the game began to break down due to PC power levels.

In 1st Edition AD&D, this was around 9th-11th levels.  After Unearthed Arcana, the breakdown began shortly after 7th level, when double weapon specialization made the fighter characters too strong for almost any monster in the book.

The same was true of 2nd Edition, which was essentially a neutered version of 1st.

In 3.5, the breakdown level is higher because the monsters can also be over the top mean.  I consider 9th-12th to be medium levels, with the game beginning to break down after the cleric reaches 12th level and cuts loose from reality.  The game can be played to higer level, but changes to a high level space opera at that point.

After starting new characters, the old characters became either NPC's, under my control, or were held in reserve for special high level adventures.  Sometimes, after a group of characters reached sufficient level, the campaign was declared to be "open" and any past character could be brought to the table.

The old PC's from the high school games became the legendary heroes and mages of my adult campaigns.  One, as mentioned above, even became a god that was worshipped by player characters...at their peril.


One other topic of interest to old timers:  

In downtown Portland, Oregon there is a legendary used/new bookstore called Powell's City of Books.  (www.powelbooks.com  I think).  I first visited the store back in the 70's and I have returned to its fabled shelves every time I get down to Portland.

Powell's is an entire city block in area and several stories tall....with a mezzanine and many labyrinthine interconnections.  The store is a giant maze of books...which I have replicated at least twice in D&D libraries.  It could easily be as complicated for a newcomer as the library in Umberto Ecco's The Name of the Rose, and you literally need a map to find your way around.  

Seriously...they give you a map as you enter the store, and even then it is easy to get lost on your first trip.  (I have one of those maps on my wall, two feet away, as I type.)  For romantic types, like me, it is possible to get lost in all of the knowledge stored there...dazed by the sheer power and wonder of such a collection...the maze is just a bonus.  I could sit for hours on a bench in Powell's, just staring at the titles in the Lovecraft section of the "Gold Room."  The impact of Powell's is much stronger than a conventional bookstore.

There was a rolling book rack in Powell's, used to transport books back to their proper shelves.  Back in the 70's, some store worker photocopied and glued several cartoons from the original AD&D books onto the side of that cart.  The cartoons were by (I think) Tom Wham.  They were the giant lynx joke, the +2 backscratcher cartoon and the "Papers and Paychecks" cartoon.

Those cartoons stayed glued to the side of that book rack for almost 30 years, next to a stairway in a corner of the "Rose Room."  Each time I visited Powell's I would seek out that rolling rack and confirm that they were still there...an inside joke across time for all AD&D veterans, and a major piece of nostalgia for me.

This spring, when my best friend and I made our annual pilgrimage to Powell's, I found that the side of the bookrack is now covered by a slick, plastic sign, telling customers how to find their way around the store.  It was the end of an era.

But...still...I bet there is a 90% chance that whoever screwed the sign to the book rack did not bother to scrape off the cartoons...which had become bonded to the laquered wood.  Some day...ineffably far away...when someone gets around to changing the sign or puts the book rack to a different use...those cartoons will see the light of day again.  Some distant person will find those pieces of the original AD&D books and puzzle over them, and the Golden Age will live again...in a way.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:46 am 
 

In my opinion, tournament modules were always too short on combat and too long on being "clever."  My players were like, "Where the hell is the adventure you mentioned?"  


Tournament modules were just that; tournament adventures that had a fixed time limit.

Most of our judging criteria was based on the clever survival of the module. That is what we were looking for--clever players, not players that got lucky with their die rolls.

Given the several thousand die rolls collectively made in each round of a tournament, should we have rewarded those lucky few who defied the laws of chance and bucked the odds, or those who showed an understanding of the game and imagination and clever thinking?

Not a very difficult choice as we saw it, BITD.


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:05 am 
 

Kaskoid wrote:
...should we have rewarded those lucky few who defied the laws of chance and bucked the odds, or those who showed an understanding of the game and imagination and clever thinking?


Oh I don't know.  Why not reward the lucky. I mean this really isn't chess, it's just a fun game  :wink:   I recognise that there is some art to playing in-character or to playing tactically in a dungeon, but did anyone really take tournament competitions seriously?


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:27 am 
 

red_bus wrote:
Oh I don't know.  Why not reward the lucky. I mean this really isn't chess, it's just a fun game  :wink:   I recognise that there is some art to playing in-character or to playing tactically in a dungeon, but did anyone really take tournament competitions seriously?


i never always felt that it was about being "clever" either. i always like to see luck...a player pull something out of the bag totally off the cuff to save the day - that was always something the group talked about more than anything. but i do understand the tournament competition concept - which was fine by me, but i think RPGing is more than just being clever. is that what a game should just be about? nah :)

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:07 am 
 

I don't have a problem with the concept of a tournament module.  I understand the reason behind all the cleverness.

I just don't think they made really good campaign adventures.

In the only tournament I ever competed in, our party broke the adventure wide open.  Many other groups died to the last man, but we were hardly challenged...a real laugher.  

I will never forget the look on the DM's face when we simply ignored his main monster because it moved too slow to even bother us.  A black knight in plate armor confronted us...and we killed his horse and just walked on by.  I pointed out to the DM that not only was he slower than us, he was a lot slower.  :lol:

We finished second to a group that broke the adventure even worse than we did.  They were more aware of the tournament scoring rules, so they sought out monsters to fight to increase their score, while we finished the adventure having taken essentially no damage.

Oh..and they also got points for bulling straight through a set of traps that we simply walked around...and laughed about.

I have no idea how some groups managed to get killed.   8O

Silly stuff.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:02 pm 
 

Howdy,


MShipley88 wrote:In the only tournament I ever competed in, our party broke the adventure wide open.  Many other groups died to the last man, but we were hardly challenged...a real laugher.


What the heck adventure was that?


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