BITD (back in the day)
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:04 pm 
 

The first D&D campaign group I joined with was right outside of college. It was a friend of my older brother [He who introduced me to D&D in 1979 - Thanks John]. This was around 1989 or so...

The first character I played in that group was a 9th level cleric of Dionysus, Sheldon of Budwisr. A few weeks into the campaign, we pulled from the cursed deck of many things.

I chose to draw twice:
1) removal of all magic items
2) Donjon - soul stripped from the body.

Am I lucky or what...   :wink:
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As to training goes... In this home campaign (with these same group of guys), we're now running a different group of lower level characters, where you pay for training, where it is (like) 750 gp per level. In a campaign where gold is... limited... where you have to sell your precious magic items to pay for training...

At the lower levels, this is suprisingly appealing to me.

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Post Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:09 pm 
 

I remember going to NC State to a D&D Club meeting in the early 80's.  After the D&D meeting, I participated with a group of random adventurers who explored Ravenloft.  We started about 8PM and went until 5 o'clock in the morning, ending only with the death of Strahd.  I didn't know any of the people in the group and didn't even know the DM, but wow, what fun.  I was a Paladin and pretty much saved the day.  We started with seven people and ended with three or four of us alive at the end.  While most of us died, we didn't mess around and took about as direct a route as we could to the bottom level, doing a fairly good job of handling problems and monsters.

Ravenloft is one amazing dungeon, especially if you have a DM who knows how to run Strahd well.  I still think it's one of TSR's best.  :)  Good times.


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:48 am 
 

Ah yes, the training rules in the DMG.  BITD (at this point, over 25 years ago), as a DM I tended to be a rules lawyer, and since it was in the DMG, it was law.

So I'm DMing a party of low-level characters (generally 2d level, I think).  They finish an adventure heavier on slaughter than treasure, and at least two of them get enough XP to go up a level, but don't have enough cash to pay for the training.  (Under the rules in the DMG, if you're second level, and the quality of your play is scored as only fair, you would have to pay 9000 GP for the training to go to third level.)  So, just to be able to pay for the training for the XP earned in one adventure, I have to run them through another adventure, a little heavier on treasure.

Problem is, for many of the classes, it takes less than 9000 XP to go from third to fourth level.  Yep -- by running them through another adventure with enough gold to pay for the training from 2d to 3d level, a couple actually made 4th level, which meant they needed even more money they didn't have . . . .

And that was the end of my use of the "pay for training rules".


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Post Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:41 pm 
 

Bracton wrote:Ah yes, the training rules in the DMG.  BITD (at this point, over 25 years ago), as a DM I tended to be a rules lawyer, and since it was in the DMG, it was law.

And that was the end of my use of the "pay for training rules".


Our group had several DMs and one of the guys decided he would use the training rules. Too bad this particular DM was also the stingiest DM on planet earth. Treasure was always at a premium and dead PCs were not.

On the rare occassion we laid our hands on a magic item, we generally had to sell it to help pay for training. You see where this is going...By the time we hit lower mid-level, say 3-4 and started running into those pesky monsters that require our PCs to actually have a magic weapon, guess what...no dice. Slaughter city. Then our jovial DM actually has the balls to wonder why we got slaughtered and hit us with comments like, "You guys really messed up that encounter." or. "You should have run away." Nevermind, defeating said wights was the entire point of the scenario.

Sure, kinda difficult to go toe to toe with a few wights when the only character with a magic weapon is our magic user who has that ripper of a +1 dagger.

Training. Sucked.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:06 am 
 

bbarsh wrote:
Our group had several DMs and one of the guys decided he would use the training rules. Too bad this particular DM was also the stingiest DM on planet earth. Treasure was always at a premium and dead PCs were not.

On the rare occassion we laid our hands on a magic item, we generally had to sell it to help pay for training. You see where this is going...By the time we hit lower mid-level, say 3-4 and started running into those pesky monsters that require our PCs to actually have a magic weapon, guess what...no dice. Slaughter city. Then our jovial DM actually has the balls to wonder why we got slaughtered and hit us with comments like, "You guys really messed up that encounter." or. "You should have run away." Nevermind, defeating said wights was the entire point of the scenario.

Sure, kinda difficult to go toe to toe with a few wights when the only character with a magic weapon is our magic user who has that ripper of a +1 dagger.

Training. Sucked.


Jeez. No wonder I only liked to DM. Everytime I tried to roll up a character and play I ran into those sorts of clowns. That DM was in dire need of a serious ass kicking.

Yeh training went out the window pretty darn quick in my campaign also.  

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:22 am 
 

I like the concept of training. In my games, if you actively seek it, there are benefits, selectable by the player. For example, you might want to gain a HD re-roll, or improve or gain an ability (including ability scores a la the Cavalier's percentile system, to a maximum of 16 in the stat -- beyond that, only magic will help); the only characters that are semi-required to train are spellcasters, but I never have anyone want to play one so its not come up and I'd have to look at my binder to see what I even do with them anymore.

I think it was an edition of Gamma World that hooked me on this... just seemed to make sense then, and I've always liked the idea since.


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Post Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:37 am 
 

Mike- I agree. For the most part, I was one of the primary DMs. I generally preferred to DM - call it a sickness...

The other problem I had with training was the timing. Every character class generally advances at a different pace. Those damn thieves seem go up a level every time an orc goes down. In general, characters are going up levels at inopportune times (as far as training goes). Inevitably, certain character classes are always behind the others and they often start an adventure at a lower level than most of their comrades. Not too many players want to stop an adventure in mid-stream so Mr. Paladin or Wizard can go off and train.

Then we have the whole geographic problem. I don's seem to remember a whole lot of training stations laying around as the PCs roll through the GDQ series.

Training as concept may make some sense, but logisticly, in most campaigns, it is at best a pain in the a.. and more likely impossible to implement with even a splinter of common sense.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:06 am 
 

bbarsh wrote:Mike- I agree. For the most part, I was one of the primary DMs. I generally preferred to DM - call it a sickness...

The other problem I had with training was the timing. Every character class generally advances at a different pace. Those damn thieves seem go up a level every time an orc goes down. In general, characters are going up levels at inopportune times (as far as training goes). Inevitably, certain character classes are always behind the others and they often start an adventure at a lower level than most of their comrades. Not too many players want to stop an adventure in mid-stream so Mr. Paladin or Wizard can go off and train.

Then we have the whole geographic problem. I don's seem to remember a whole lot of training stations laying around as the PCs roll through the GDQ series.

Training as concept may make some sense, but logisticly, in most campaigns, it is at best a pain in the a.. and more likely impossible to implement with even a splinter of common sense.


Heh...

In my previous example of the D&D campaign I was in. My training location was approximately a six week journey away from our starting town (whereas most of the PC's training locations were 2-3 weeks away...).

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:35 pm 
 

The other problem I had with training was the timing. Every character class generally advances at a different pace. Those damn thieves seem go up a level every time an orc goes down. In general, characters are going up levels at inopportune times (as far as training goes). Inevitably, certain character classes are always behind the others and they often start an adventure at a lower level than most of their comrades. Not too many players want to stop an adventure in mid-stream so Mr. Paladin or Wizard can go off and train.


That is the benefit, at times, of playing a faster-advancing class like thief. I am not a fan of the later D&D tropes of "balanced, unified advancement."

Then we have the whole geographic problem. I don's seem to remember a whole lot of training stations laying around as the PCs roll through the GDQ series.


That's easy -- if you implement self-training. Make it take longer, but it reduces the costs. But, I am also the type that will let you get your immediate effects, like more Hit Points and better saves and attack rates, but make you train for anything else, like a brand new spell, or improving a specific class-based trait like picking pockets. This way, you're not completely screwed by not training -- you improve, but you also don't get everything. Oh, and I think, and could be wrong, that at the levels of the finish of the GDQ, training is no longer necessary...

But, like I said, I'm a fan of training requirements.


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