B1 & B2 print variations (was: mono B1 print question)
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:25 pm 
 

I posted this over on DF, but no replies yet.
I don't know what I was thinking - I should've asked here first...

I noticed this in the review of the Holmes Basic rulebook:
(As an interesting footnote, this set of rules does in fact have two modules written with it in mind: early revisions of B1 In Search of the Unknown and B2 Keep on the Borderlands both include a "DX" score for monsters to use with the Holmes' revision of Dungeons & Dragons.)

The Acaeum does not mention that the 1st print B1 (mono cover) has DX scores listed, while it does mention this is true for B2:
http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/b1.html

I have the 2nd print of B1 (mono cover) and it does not have DX scores for the monsters.

Can anyone (rogueattorney or otherwise) confirm that the 1st print of B1 (mono cover) does have the DX scores? To confirm you have the 1st print, the back cover should have prices by the TSR products.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:05 am 
 

I didnt see any DX scores for the monsters in my 1st print.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:00 am 
 

I don't know what a "DX score" is, but isn't one of the features of B1 that it does not have any monster statistics at all?

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:42 am 
 

chromaticknight wrote:I didnt see any DX scores for the monsters in my 1st print.


Thanks! I was suspicious of that statement, thanks for confirming.

MShipley88 wrote:I don't know what a "DX score" is, but isn't one of the features of B1 that it does not have any monster statistics at all?


DX score = Dexterity score.

B1 doesn't have any monster stastistics in the room descriptions, but there is a list of monsters (after the room desc) that have stats and are used to fill in the rooms.

In the Holmes Basic ruleset, initiative was determined by Dexterity. No initiative roles. However, the DM would need to role Dexterity for each monster (either prior to the encounter or on the spot). According to the Acaeum, the first print of B2 came with DX scores for the monsters (see above link).

I haven't actually seen a 1st print B2 either - my original B2 from a Holmes box set is a 2nd print. I'm actually interested in acquiring a 1st print B2 Keep on the Borderlands if anyone has an extra available for sale (with the map & graph paper intact). You can distinguish the 1st and 2nd print B2 (both are Wizard Logo) by the number of lines in the first paragraph on the cover (just below the picture). The first print has four lines, the second and third print each print each have three lines. The extra line is caused by the statement, "With minor modifications, is suitable for use with Advanced Dungeons & Dragons". See the Acaeum page I quoted in my first post (it covers B1 and B2).

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:22 am 
 

zhowar wrote:The first print has four lines, the third print has three lines.


And the First is also notably taller, of course.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:57 am 
 

chromaticknight wrote:I didnt see any DX scores for the monsters in my 1st print.


Do we know for sure that there's not an additional printing out there somewhere?  What was the origin for the original statement that B1 DX scores existed in the first printing?


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:25 pm 
 

grodog wrote: Do we know for sure that there's not an additional printing out there somewhere?  What was the origin for the original statement that B1 DX scores existed in the first printing?


It was mentioned in a review of the Holmes Basic Rulebook on Dragonsfoot:
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewt ... 05&start=0

It's a review from April 2005 (by theDungeonDelver), but I just noticed the statement regarding DX scores in B1.

By the way, could someone here independently confirm the DX scores in the 1st print B2? I know it's in the Acaeum listing, but other errors have cropped up in the listings before.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:09 pm 
 

I have a first print of B2 and it does have DX scores for monsters.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:24 pm 
 

Thanks, sheeadog! :thumbsup:

I'm slightly suspicious of the B1 DX score, because the second print is 1979 and doesn't have the scores. The 1st print B2 is Dec 1979 (copyright 1980), and does have the scores. Why would they edit them out of B1 in 1979 and leave them in B2 in Dec 1979? However, I would happily be proven wrong.

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:00 am 
 

zhowar wrote:
I haven't actually seen a 1st print B2 either - my original B2 from a Holmes box set is a 2nd print. I'm actually interested in acquiring a 1st print B2 Keep on the Borderlands if anyone has an extra available for sale (with the map & graph paper intact). .






Assuming the photos aren't "stock" there are atleast three 1st print B2s on Ebay at the moment:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0004892345

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 8795219294

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0020620123

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:08 am 
 

NetRodent wrote:


Assuming the photos aren't "stock" there are atleast three 1st print B2s on Ebay at the moment:

** expired eBay auction **


** expired eBay auction **




Thank you. I did see those the other night. I don't trust Toadandtroll and their "stock" photos. The others are possibilities. However, I would like one with the map, reference sheet and graph paper (preferably attached, but at least present) and I would trust an Acaeum member to provide this information accurately, so I thought I would ask here first.

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Post Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:27 pm 
 

I've finally obtained a decent 1st print B2...it's mostly complete (just missing the reference chart). It's a "tallboy" like Frank said.

Once it arrived (after a slow media mail shipping), I pulled out my 2nd print B2 for comparison. I guess hadn't looked at it in a while, because the 2nd also has the DX (dexterity) scores for all of the monsters! This is not noted on the Acaeum B2 2nd print listing:

http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/b1.html

This actually means that all Wizard Logo prints (1st and 2nd print) have the DX scores, and they were taken out in the 3rd-6th prints (Face Logo, these are the ones revised to match Moldvay Box Set conventions). Unless there's someone who has a Wizard Logo cover that does not have these scores? (I'm not considering the Silver Anniversary version which sounds like a Frankenstein-type reconstruction).

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Post Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:53 pm 
 

Comparing the 1st and 2nd print B2s, the main interior text difference (the only one I have noted) is on pg 5-6.

The 1st print has the following section after the end of the section PREPARATIONS FOR THIS MODULE on page 5, 2nd column:
Using This Module With ADVANCED DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS
While originally designed to be played with BASIC D&D, the situations and places used in KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS may also be used by players of ADVANCED DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS.

To use with AD&D, the DM will find no difficulty in using the maps or room descriptions of the Keep and the Caves of Chaos. He or she may wish to expand or ignore the wilderness map and perhaps substitute personalized ideas for those listed. It will be necessary to alter some of the information on the characters found in the Keep to be consistent with AD&D. Likewise, the monsters found in the Caves of Chaos should be converted to AD&D (hit dice, alignment, damage, etc.). For experienced players it may be useful to include some more challenging monsters and more tricks and traps.

As the party increases in level, care should be taken to see that they do not rule or take over the Keep. This may be done by having the main characters of the Keep increase in level and magic items to remain above the average of the party. If the party is 6th level on average, the Castellan should be 9th or 10th level. Alternately, if the DM wishes to use this area for future low-level play, he or she may encourage the players to travel elsewhere in search of adventure.


The text continues over to page 6, 1st column, and is followed by the section BACKGROUND.

In the 2nd print, the entire section on using the module with AD&D is deleted. To fill in the extra space, the surrounding paragraphs are spaced more broadly, and two pieces of art are added: at the bottom of pg 5, a small drawing of snakes swallowing their tails (artist ?), and at the bottom of pg 6, a DCSIII drawing of Dragon (trivia: this same Dragon picture appears in the color B1 to replace the analogous "USING THIS MODULE WITH AD&D" section). DCSIII is not added to the credits at the end of the module.
The Acaeum page does note these changes in artwork.


Last edited by Zenopus on Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:24 am 
 

*bump*


I was just going through my stuff and realized that where I thought that I had a 1st print B2, I actually have 2 2nd print B2's(soon to be one :)) and both my copies have the DX score in the monster listings.  That said, the site is not updated to refelct this yet:

http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/b1.html

Foul, any chance that this might still be forthcoming?  :)


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:02 pm 
 

For what it's worth, both of my 2nd print B2's also have DX scores in the monster listings.

Though, I guess you could interpret the B2 listing as saying that the 1st print has DX scores and that didn't change until the 3rd print, when the module was updated to reflect "newer Basic Set conventions".

  


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:38 pm 
 

I'd be happy to take a 2nd print B2 off of someone's hands!

8)  8)

Cheers

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:50 pm 
 

brute wrote:I'd be happy to take a 2nd print B2 off of someone's hands!

8)  8)

Cheers


I will sell you my second copy for $2 plus shipping(however you want it shipped).  Its in pretty decent condition, but it does have some yellow highlighting on a few pages.  Nothing too extensive, but its there. :)


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