Another 1st print.
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:45 pm 
 

Here are my thoughts.

I reckon to four on ebay in 06: (i) faro (partial), (ii) blackmoor, (iii) the $5K one and (iv) this one.  I reckon at least three sold in 05: (i) stormber's purchase, (ii) stormber's acaeum auction sale ($3.2K+ or thereabouts) and mine.

(If I am missing some do please add in)


I think that these figures are OK for an item which had a print run of 1,000 but which now commands a goodly price.  For the following reasons:

1. compare the occurrence with other rare items of which we have confirmed print runs - e.g. Lost Tamoachan (print run 300), which we had two sold in quick succession in Feb. 06 (not sure how many in 05).  Now seeing three or four 1st prints from a run of 1,000 does not seem unusual.

2. the number of users on ebay has been growing quickly each year.  With more people looking and buying and selling I would expect an increasing occurrence of many valuable collectibles -- especially those without an established traditional market.  Put another way, while the rare car market probably hasn't been affected so much by ebay, I would bet that the toy car collectible market has seen a pile of unearthed gems in the last year or two.  

3. gamers are often a bit obsessive.  They don't always throw their stuff away so much.  Even when I was gaming, some of my friends were collecting the books and keeping them in good condition. Yes, more often than not it gets well used but it stays treasured -- and buried in an attic or in storage.

4. and many people I imagine are hunting for these in storage.  They look on ebay and go "Wow! I have one of those somewhere!"  I could do with $4K

5. if I was a small gaming company I would be keen to advertise pretty much anything I had for sale on any new items.  Rather than a rock group analogy, think small creative start-up company.  Frankly I am surprised that they weren't advertising stuff on the front cover.

6. I wonder if the recent rash has been driven by price rises.  If this one sells for another record price I would expect to see another 1st print within two to three months.  If not, then those who have first prints and who are watching ebay (and this site -- hello there!!) may decide to wait until the price rises again.

7. even if we see another three sold this year (one at gencon, and another one or two in the Autumn) to make seven, and further that seven were sold in 07 and again in 08 -- is that really so strange?  (especially given points 3 & 4 above). That would make 35 over five years, from a print run of 1,000.  How many have been sold in the last ten years - maybe 60?


Anyway, there you go.  There are of course counter arguments.  I know that Gary has been mistaken before in this area, but he was there back in ‘74.  I personally doubt that this mythical ‘true first' without the art prints exists -- especially since not one has surfaced by now.  

But then again, I believe in the Loch Ness Monster...  8O


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:55 pm 
 

I picked up my first printing on EBay last year about this time. :)  My first printing also advertises the art prints. :?


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:14 pm 
 

red_bus wrote:I wonder if the recent rash has been driven by price rises.  If this one sells for another record price I would expect to see another 1st print within two to three months.  If not, then those who have first prints and who are watching ebay (and this site -- hello there!!) may decide to wait until the price rises again.

You hit the nail on the head there.  It's rather disturbing to see the prices trending upward so rapidly.  I'm betting one goes for $5.5-6k this year.

 YIM  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:12 pm 
 

Steven,

I believe there may have been another 1st sold by Paul within the past year, but you were perhaps referring to the calendar year?

I have the info on my pc at "work", if you want me to check.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:29 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote:
Slight correction: Gary Gygax INSISTS repeatedly that the 1st printing did NOT advertise art prints. (Rationale: why would a music group's debut album feature their 'greatest hits'? No other product of that era offered 'art prints'; they were produced in response to demand.)

If the True1st brown did not advertise art, and had a 1000 print run, then the 2nd print (ie the version we're calling '1st') had a much larger print run and is not as rare -- which is supported by the number that have been showing up.

And I KNOW that the brown with no label is not a 'prepub' (as claimed here), it's one of the leftovers that Tom Wham got. Just ask him. I was there, I sold it (as auctioneer) at a GenCon auction.


Well, there must be a way to puzzle this out . . . say Gary is remembering correctly . . . also say Frank (extsr) is right about there being no "Pre-pub".  What about the quote from the description on the Acaeum for a Pre-pub:  

This set was available at the 1973 Eastercon in very limited quantities, as well as given to Tactical Studies Rules staffers at the time


Could this statement still be accurate?  Perhaps this is the very 1st printing of which Gary is remembering (only, perhaps, it did have a cover sticker?)  That would seem to make sense and go along with what both the acaeum says and Gary remembers . . . the terms "pre-pub", TRUE 1st and 1st print sometimes causing more confusion than enlightenment?


The one on ebay has the art prints . . . and a sales receipt from October of 1974 to boot . . . so, for there to be an "earlier" print,  either two prints were done in 1974 . . . or one done in 1973?


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:01 pm 
 

thx. :)
Beyondthebreach wrote:Well, there must be a way to puzzle this out . . . say Gary is remembering correctly . . . also say Frank (extsr) is right about there being no "Pre-pub".

Agreed on that, given current evidence. Confirmed by Frank at;
viewtopic.php?p=42408&highlight=#42408
viewtopic.php?p=42334&highlight=#42334

Beyondthebreach wrote:Perhaps this is the very 1st printing of which Gary is remembering (only, perhaps, it did have a cover sticker?)  That would seem to make sense and go along with what both the acaeum says and Gary remembers . . .

(Worth filing under "possible explanation", should further evidence become available).

Beyondthebreach wrote:The one on ebay has the art prints . . . and a sales receipt from October of 1974 to boot . . . so, for there to be an "earlier" print,  either two prints were done in 1974 . . . or one done in 1973?

q.v. "Harami, you're killing me!  :) ... I stated that the pre-pub was avail at Eastercon '73 only because that seems to be the general agreement in the stories floating around", etc., etc., on Acaeum posts back in 2004. Stories, not EGG quotes.
No evidence of any 1973 print.

Ditto, no evidence of art-print lacking copies and with confirmed number of 1st prints the ratio might indicate closer to 50-75/1000-1500 as opposed to 1000/1000.
Still not impossible as the evidence suggests the pages were left unbound (variant 1st U&WA confirms, with 80-90% poss. on the other early/late split, IMO) and the books were only trimmed down after the covers had been added therefore any substitution would not be obvious.
The first copies sent up to Dave Arneson and co. had the art prints noted, so it would have to be mighty early in 74... An initial run of "finished products" from the printer cannot be ruled out, since that appears to have happened for the 1st Greyhawk.

Just the current p.o.v., anyhow, fwiw... :?

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:04 pm 
 

red_bus wrote:I reckon to four on ebay in 06: (i) faro (partial), (ii) blackmoor, (iii) the $5K one and (iv) this one.  I reckon at least three sold in 05: (i) stormber's purchase, (ii) stormber's acaeum auction sale ($3.2K+ or thereabouts) and mine.

You missed the other 1st print set I picked up off the 'Bay for $462.  :lol:
red_bus wrote:4. and many people I imagine are hunting for these in storage.  They look on ebay and go "Wow! I have one of those somewhere!"  I could do with $4K

(and point 6)

Yep!
red_bus wrote:7. even if we see another three sold this year (one at gencon, and another one or two in the Autumn) to make seven, and further that seven were sold in 07 and again in 08 -- is that really so strange?  (especially given points 3 & 4 above). That would make 35 over five years, from a print run of 1,000.  How many have been sold in the last ten years - maybe 60?

Must admit I haven't seen evidence of that many, Steven, with or without box...

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:18 pm 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:I'd put my 3 on top of a woody in a second. No connotations there.
Back on topic: 1sts seem to be fairly prolific lately. How many is that this year? More than 2nd's, I believe.

Agreed, Frank.
Possibly a few more 1st drawn out by the current prices, but the appearance ratio is noteworthy.

*adds link here to other recent post for easy reference*
viewtopic.php?p=58687&highlight=#58687
EGG's editoral in TD #11 (somewhat closer to the date!) also quotes 1,000 copies (not boxed sets) - presumably for the "true" 2nd print.

=
bombadil wrote:Not to be pedantic, but do you have something from Gary you could post here?

*nod nods*. I'm all ears here. ^.o^

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:16 pm 
 

I have one that doesn't advertise the art prints in it....

"as I hurridly blow the white-out dry"

:lol:

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:21 pm 
 

IttyBitty wrote:I have one that doesn't advertise the art prints in it....

"as I hurridly blow the white-out dry"

:lol:

Was that originally a 3rd print, then? :D

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:48 pm 
 

IttyBitty wrote:I have one that doesn't advertise the art prints in it....

"as I hurridly blow the white-out dry"

:lol:


and check the glue on the label transferred to a mint and shiny Tractics box...


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:08 am 
 

Nice pick up



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0009035595



Contrats addermcone   :D


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:12 am 
 

Blackmoor wrote:Nice pick up


** expired eBay auction **


Contrats addermcone   :D




Indeed.  $4225 is a great win compared to the $5100 of the previous auction.



Has some sanity (if $4225 can be considered sane) returned to the market or  was this just a fluke?

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:22 am 
 

NetRodent wrote:
Indeed.  $4225 is a great win compared to the $5100 of the previous auction.

Has some sanity (if $4225 can be considered sane) returned to the market or  was this just a fluke?

That's still the 2nd highest price ever, by my notes.  They seem to be stabilizing just above the $4k range.  Is that sane?  Depends on whom you ask, I suppose.

 YIM  


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:55 am 
 

Congratulations!


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:21 am 
 

Thank's guys.

Very happy with the price compared to the last one  :D

I think the last price was overdone due to my very high snipe (set due to work etc), didnt think it'd get anywhere near that high, though it does take two... snipes are bad, BAD!

Now that I will have one I think 2 things will happen
1. prices will probably stay around this mark or slightly higher for the next sale or 2 (moves to replace batteries in crystal ball) sanity returning for a while as the insane don't bid  :roll:
2. people will stop receiving annoying emails requesting if they'll sell theirs (hears vast sighs of relief) 8O  :lol:

Will post on condition etc when it arrives.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:54 am 
 

Nice buy.  When it arrives, be sure to put it in the correct corner of your room to maximise the mystical good-fortune effect it will have on your life (a Feng Shui guide might be able to provide assistance here). :D


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:57 am 
 

How have you set your's up and has it been as good for you?  :wink:  :lol:

  


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:48 am 
 

AdderMcOne wrote:How have you set your's up and has it been as good for you?  :wink:  :lol:


Well, I put it in the 'love life' corner of my flat and have pretty much been exhausted ever since.  :D  

Unfortunately the 'wealth' corner is occupied by the toilet (which is why I am always in debt..).  But, I am assured that if I keep the toilet lid down (when not in use) and bring some more plants in to that corner, my finances will recover.  Or maybe I should stop buying old games on ebay?  Not sure.  :wink:


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:02 am 
 

red_bus wrote:
Well, I put it in the 'love life' corner of my flat and have pretty much been exhausted ever since.  :D  

Unfortunately the 'wealth' corner is occupied by the toilet (which is why I am always in debt..).  But, I am assured that if I keep the toilet lid down (when not in use) and bring some more plants in to that corner, my finances will recover.  Or maybe I should stop buying old games on ebay?  Not sure.  :wink:


Perhaps if you move the toilet out of the living room ... :wink:


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