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Grandstanding Collector

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:59 am 
 

Here's the case, guys. The buyer for a lot of my Dragon mags, natural20gaming, originally asked me if I could wait a week for payment. I said sure, and I asked him to send the payment to a specific account, since he was paying by CC. He then paid me via Paypal with a credit card. I had to deny the payment, and asked him to send it to the business account. He CLAIMS he paid by balance, and that it would take 7-10 business days to refund. Time goes by, I ask him a few times what the status is, and get "It hasn't been deposited yet".
I know this is a crock. Paypal does not take 3 weeks to redeposit funds.
So, after e-mailing him several times with no answer, I filed 11 NPB's, figuring he would respond. I got this:

I tell you what. Since you want to file 11 non-paying bidders claims on the magazines, even though I paid you in full and you denied payment via Paypal, and I still haven't received a refund, why don't we call the entire transaction off. Let me know what your listing fees were, and I will refund you those. Most were either $0.60 or $1.20 due to whether the final bid was $10.00 ? $24.99 or it was $25.00 ? $49.99. You let me know what I owe you for your Final Value Fee, I will reimburse you, you can drop these silly claims, and we can move on with our lives. No harm, no foul. I don't think I feel comfortable with trying to complete this transaction with you any longer since you went and filed 11 claims against me and I have done nothing wrong.


And the second e-mail:

I went through and figured out your total Final Value Fee according to Ebay's final value fee schedule and it is $7.80. I will gladly refund that amount to you and we can call it even.

What should I do? It's obviously too late to offer Second Chances. I don't know what the final cost was for the aucs, but at the very least I have to take the time to re-auction them.


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Grandstanding Collector

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:18 am 
 

I should add that, after I denied the payment and agreed to wait for the money to be refunded, he asked me to ship the magazines, claiming he was "good for the money".


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Verbose Collector
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:38 am 
 

You may as well take his offer . . . at this point the transaction is not going to go through successfully anyway.  At least he is offering to refund you the fees and things are somewhat peaceful.  

If you push harder to get him to pay you, he probably won't and you will have to get the fees refunded through ebay . . . then you are only setting yourself up for negative feedback.

If it were me, I'd get the situation put behind me, take his offer of a fee refund and relist the items - should be easy enough, just look at the completed auctions and click "sell similar".

With any luck, you'll have a new buyer in 7 days.


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Grandstanding Collector

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:06 am 
 

I'm not sure if it was an international thing but on the Necromican fiasco I paid by credit card and which then got refunded.  The refund ended up taking  about a week.  I don't know if the same procedure happens if you deny the payment right away.

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:37 am 
 

The two times I've had Paypal payments denied, the funds showed up in my account the very same day.  I don't think he's being honest.  Maybe he changed his mind about the purchase in the meantime, or used the funds for something else, and wants out.


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Grandstanding Collector

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:43 am 
 

Well, the problem is, if I let him back out, he can still give me negatives, right? I don't mind a neg once in a while, but 11 would pretty much force me to start a new account.


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Grandstanding Collector

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:56 am 
 

You know what, Stephen? You're dead right. I just had to deny yours last month because I goofed and didn't give you the right account! So apparently he IS lying.
I am very tempted to go through with the NPB's. Partially because he lied, partially because the other bidders were stiffed, partially for the wasted time (which is in short supply for me), and partially to avoid negatives.
Thoughts?


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:23 am 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:You know what, Stephen? You're dead right. I just had to deny yours last month because I goofed and didn't give you the right account! So apparently he IS lying.
I am very tempted to go through with the NPB's. Partially because he lied, partially because the other bidders were stiffed, partially for the wasted time (which is in short supply for me), and partially to avoid negatives.
Thoughts?

Some banks, (crappy ones like mine) will hold the money after it's been refunded.  ie. Paypal dumps it back in, and the bank doesn't give it to you right away.  I think I've waited up to three days, but not seven.  Maybe it's "business days" or something...

Anyway, it's obvious the deal's gone sour.  Get what you can and move on.

 YIM  


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:43 am 
 

Definitely sounds like he's trying to do some serious back pedling.

Has had 12 bid retractions in the last 6 months, 1 neg in the past month and 2 in the last 6. 16 in the last 12 mths.

Funnily the neg in the last month was from a certain feline warning others to stay away.

He appears to be a re-seller (not that there's anything wrong with that), and it definitely smells like he got a better deal somewhere else, or had second thoughts.

If he can't neg you if you lodge NPBs I'd go along those lines. With the number of transactions he has had (904) he should realize the consequences. That would at least give you $7.80 worth of satisfaction.

Alternatively get him to refund the fees and he gets to leave feedback first, given that he's the one who's backed out. If he leaves positive (for you allowing him to reneg), respond with neutrals. If he leaves neutrals, neg him and NPB him anyway. :evil: If he leaves negative, well he probably was going to regardless (would then filing NPBs get these wiped?)

Question to be asking is what you think he would be doing if the roles were reversed, based on the tone of the emails sent through to you. :(

Don't envy your decision though.

I've also had a payment returned by someone, and it was very quick.

  

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Grandstanding Collector

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:48 am 
 

gotta say i've given refunds and received refunds through paypal and have never noticed delays of any worthy note.

fwiw frank, i think hes trying to "pull a fast one" as we would say over here. i would just get the credits off him and relist n be done with it and just block him from ever bidding again and just move on.

then you will just have to hope he aint bright enough to do the 90day neg thing. if he DOES leave negs, all you need to do is utilise a name and ebay will remove it if you complain. (this has been done a number of times by me, ian and brian)

Al



  

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:52 am 
 

Is it also possible that there was a problem with the refund?

He did try to pay...just by the wrong route.   :?

He also offered to pay something for Pay Pal fees...even if it was not quite enough.

Is it possible that you could offer to let the matter drop provided he leaves you positive feedback?  Wouldn't 11 NPB reports pretty much eliminate his EBay account?  So, he leaves feedback first and then you drop the NPB reports.

Mark    8)


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:33 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:Is it also possible that there was a problem with the refund?

He did try to pay...just by the wrong route.   :?

He also offered to pay something for Pay Pal fees...even if it was not quite enough.

Is it possible that you could offer to let the matter drop provided he leaves you positive feedback?  Wouldn't 11 NPB reports pretty much eliminate his EBay account?  So, he leaves feedback first and then you drop the NPB reports.

Mark    8)


even though you leave 11 negs, only one is counted as a strike (i think).

but yeah looking at an account with 11 negs isnt ever good reading.

Al



  

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:07 pm 
 

Well, he claims he won the Georgia lottery, which is why he can afford to buy so many games in the last month. I can't post all the e-mails the dope sent me, but he trips himself up a few times.
Now the funny part: I figured I'd just take the FVF and relist them, so I ended all the disputes. Lo and behold, he got 11 NPB's and is not a registered user. Not quite what I intended, but whatever.
originally, he said he was on vacation and asked if he could wait a week to pay me. I said sure, and gave him the 2 separate accounts for Paypal. I was VERY specific about which one to use for a given payment. I am positive he paid me with a CC, which wasn't an issue except that he paid the wrong account.
Anyways, if he is so filthy rich, why wouldn't he just add more money to Paypal? His exact words:

I don't have a choice.  I don't have the cash to cover a second payment until that cash is redeposited into my account.

So, he definitely lied. I don't feel so bad anymore.
For what it is worth, his ebay name is natural20gaming. Well, WAS.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:54 pm 
 

Won the Georgia lottery?   8O

"The great mass of people will be more easily deceived by the big lie"


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:49 pm 
 

So he says. Don't you win 1,000 alligator steaks or something?
Here is the latest e-mail:

So, if I pay the FVF, will you remove the strikes so I can activate my account again?


Ummmm.................... no?


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:06 pm 
 

I did figure out something from all this. From now on, I think I will require the buyer to purchase tracking if paying via Paypal. I recall someone mentioning that Paypal requires proof of tracking from the seller in order to stop a chargeback.
Of course, this rule wouldn't apply to Acaeum members.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:24 pm 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:I did figure out something from all this. From now on, I think I will require the buyer to purchase tracking if paying via Paypal. I recall someone mentioning that Paypal requires proof of tracking from the seller in order to stop a chargeback.
Of course, this rule wouldn't apply to Acaeum members.


If you use paypal's automatic label printing, Tracking (delivery confirmation) is free with Priority mail and only 13 cents more with Parcel/media (in the U.S. only, of course).  Plus, the tracking number is linked to the transaction, so there is no need to keep track of it yourself . . . if you ever need it, just follow the links.  Easy for paypal to see as well . . .


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:29 pm 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:I should add that, after I denied the payment and agreed to wait for the money to be refunded, he asked me to ship the magazines, claiming he was "good for the money".


Let me also add that the buyer in question is in fact a confirmed jack-ass.  I blocked him from my auctions some time ago after seeing his interactions with several other sellers including creep1962 as well his multitude of bid retractions. He used to go by the name costiemike8, but in the last several months changed his userid to his current natural20gaming.  I can assure you that you can almost certainly expect to receive negative feedback as if you look at his feedback left, you will se that he leaves negs all the time.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:32 pm 
 

Actually, it may in fact be moot now as he is no longer a registered user:



http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d ... al20gaming



Must be too many positve experiences for ebay's taste.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:55 pm 
 

He has tons and tons of positive feeback.

Also, a fair chunk of his negatives came from tangling with Cougarrinard and Creep1962...both of whom have displayed really terrible comminication skills and possibly bad business practices in the past.  I have no direct evidence that either one is untrustworthy, but I have lots of examples to show that both are rather nasty/mean/angry/rude.

If he has anywhere near the bad communication habits that those two display...and his feedback responses indicate he can be vindictive...then no wonder he has touched off verbal fireworks a few times.

The 12 bid retractions in the last year bother me more.

The thing is, if you were to somehow allow him to get his EBay identity back, his vindictive track record shows that he would almost surely try to get revenge.

In fact, he may be likely to make another identity and try to get revenge anway.

It occurs to me that possibly THE most effective response to a negative feedback might be:

"Problems and misunderstandings do occur.  I am always willing fix things."

Or something like that.  

The flaring explosions some sellers launch in response hurt themselves more than the complaining customer.

Mark   8)


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