eBay feedback question from a buyer
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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:44 am 
 

I prefer the NASCAR Southeastern drawl.  

"Ahm oldah, but fastah."

"Smokin' 'iz tahrs!"

The Brazilians are lucky that people from South Carolina, "Ain't gon' play no gol' durn Frenchie no-hands sport.  Them Frenchies maht as well be wahrin' tutus."

(It is significant that soccer has become the most popular school sport...among girls.)

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:12 pm 
 

Did somebody say 3-nil?

Xaxaxe wrote:I can't sleep knowing the Czechs are gonna stomp us, 3-nil.


It's good to know the crystal ball is still working; I've got payments left on the thing.

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:17 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Did somebody say 3-nil?

Xaxaxe wrote:I can't sleep knowing the Czechs are gonna stomp us, 3-nil.


It's good to know the crystal ball is still working; I've got payments left on the thing.


well X in all fairness, i DID want the US to do well, but realistically they were totally played out of the game. they had a few chances (1 hit the post), but didnt put any sustained pressure there and you could see the quality of the czech's when they attacked. i thought it was going to be more tbh...

they have  LOT of work to do in the next two matches to even have a sniff of a chance to get anywhere.

Al



  

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:49 am 
 

Badmike wrote:
MShipley88 wrote:Badmike has already sounded off on the seller's side, and I sympathize with his position....EBay is a nice place, but there are still idiots allowed into the mix.

As far as I can see, feedback extortion is the norm.

When one seller recently surprised me by posting immediate feedback...right after I paid...I sent him a thank you note.  Very classy.

If this guy really pisses you off, wait 90 days after your purchase and then...at the last second...post a negative.  Kind of dirty pool, however, if your only beef is with common feedback courtesy.

I have one seller at the moment who is ignoring my emails to him.  I have never left a negative, but I am considering it in his case.  90 days.

Mark   8)


I would add that for Acaeum members or those I've dealt with multiple times, I will often leave feedback first.  But it's just not worth it to get a neg from the clueless newbie that can't understand why he hasn't received his item in three days after paying (true story).

Mike B.


Case in point for my policy:  A newbie buyer in the Uk has gone ballistic because his item did not arrive within his "4 to 7 day window" the day after he paid through paypal.  When I told him that A. He is assuming I shipped the day after he paid, it was more like 5 days after; and B. I've often had UK/Europe items (even through priority mail) take up to two weeks, he was extremely unhappy.  Luckily I have not left him feedback because this 20 feedback wonder would defintiely be screaming "I'm leaving negs by tomorrow if I don't get my item!".  Now if I get a neg I can have he satisfaction to slap him right back, and I don't doubt this is the ONLY reason he has not left a neg yet (his emails are interesting to say the least).  

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:13 am 
 

well mike you hit it right on the head there. just these past couple of weeks, i have been thinking about this myself.

i sold something for a mate of mine last week, which the buyer did a BIN and paid shortly thereafter - thursday, (why they wait for an invoice when they can SEE the postage clearly *shakes head*) anyway....my mate is running round like a pleb cos his wife is in hospital having a baby, so last thing on his mind was an ebay parcel! anyway he still mailed it tuesday, which to me, isnt long anyway....

well the umming and arring is absolutely ridiculous. sadly, i left feedback already, but the guy has pissed me off SO MUCH, that believe me, if he negs me, i am personally gonna travel to see the guy.

because of this, i have now changed my mind with regards to feedback and anyone who has a FB less than 30, i will be mentioning to them when i send the item(s) that i will treat the sale as complete when the buyer receives the parcel and leaves feedback. then i will leave feedback.

i am not feedback driven, so i dont really care but it pisses me off when you get luddites coming along who really are muppets about the whole thing.

Al



  


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:55 am 
 

I missed the whole fireworks on this one, but I've come to the conclusion that eBay feedback is pretty meaningless.  I'll continue to blindly follow the guidelines and leave feedback when I receive and item/get paid, because I get the feeling the whole thing is some sort of elaborate joke.

Would you rather buy something from some eBay newbie that makes some insightful Acaeum posts, or a titanium powerseller with a big number and a star next to his name, that has nothing to do with the hobby?  All the feedback you need is on here or other forums like this one.

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:09 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:I missed the whole fireworks on this one, but I've come to the conclusion that eBay feedback is pretty meaningless.  I'll continue to blindly follow the guidelines and leave feedback when I receive and item/get paid, because I get the feeling the whole thing is some sort of elaborate joke.

Would you rather buy something from some eBay newbie that makes some insightful Acaeum posts, or a titanium powerseller with a big number and a star next to his name, that has nothing to do with the hobby?  All the feedback you need is on here or other forums like this one.


THAT i agree with.

i find it FAR more preferable to deal with ppl i do so with all the time and i know who they are. it makes for a far easier time and in the end...feedback means nothing past the "yes this person is reliable" - as long as mine indicates that (as i know this is the case), then it could stay the same forever...wouldnt bother me none.

Al

ps. it would be better to see the system changed to something that DOES work properly though.



  

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:45 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:well mike you hit it right on the head there. just these past couple of weeks, i have been thinking about this myself.

i sold something for a mate of mine last week, which the buyer did a BIN and paid shortly thereafter - thursday, (why they wait for an invoice when they can SEE the postage clearly *shakes head*) anyway....my mate is running round like a pleb cos his wife is in hospital having a baby, so last thing on his mind was an ebay parcel! anyway he still mailed it tuesday, which to me, isnt long anyway....

well the umming and arring is absolutely ridiculous. sadly, i left feedback already, but the guy has pissed me off SO MUCH, that believe me, if he negs me, i am personally gonna travel to see the guy.

because of this, i have now changed my mind with regards to feedback and anyone who has a FB less than 30, i will be mentioning to them when i send the item(s) that i will treat the sale as complete when the buyer receives the parcel and leaves feedback. then i will leave feedback.

i am not feedback driven, so i dont really care but it pisses me off when you get luddites coming along who really are muppets about the whole thing.

Al


         I think the same way Al, I think most of the trouble with this transaction is just the newness of the buyer and his expectations based on about a month of buying on EBay, I would say 100% of my problems are with feedback 20 or less newbies.  That's why I haven't responded in kind to him and truthfully five days is a little long for me to wait and ship but he just got caught at the end of a cycle (I only ship 1-2 days a week) and had to wait close to the max.  Plus I've noticed through the years of mailing to Europe that for some reason it seems to take 1-2 days longer from Texas than the East OR West coast, I have no idea why, it should just fly out from D/FW airport, oh well.  
    Most of these things turn out ok, because soon as the buyer gets the package it's all love and kisses, but I have to spend valuable time with each and every "Where's my package? It's been 2 days!!!" muppets (love that word) that have unrealistic expectations, holding their hand and digging up tracking numbers, etc.  At least I've eliminated "If it doesn't arrive by tomorrow I'm negging you!" bullshit, which is why I have the policy of letting the buyer leave feedback first unless it's a return customer.

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:55 am 
 

eBay should allow you to block bidders with less than a specified amount of feedback that just 0. If you want to block bidders with a feedback less than 20, you should be able to do so.

I'm toying with the idea of asking low feedback bidders to pay by money order only, and warning them that there's a $10 handling charge for refunding PayPal payments if they ignore the Terms & Conditions.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:03 pm 
 

I regard eBay sellers who leave feedback first as the class-acts of eBay. They are confident in their product and service.

I don't sell much on eBay, prices being so depressed there. (Though the eBay Express is interesting.) I do buy ~$1,500 of RPGs a month wholesale on eBay and re-sell them elsewhere.

I frankly don't understand why sellers with feedback in the hundreds and thousands take the occasional Neg so personally. Even a few negs in a row will have no appreciable impact on your percentage. Anybody researching your FB will see the customer for who they are, and your reasoned response to their neg. I'm triply impressed by a seller who *doesn't* leave retaliatory FB.

I'm always suspicious of 100% FB because I, as a buyer, don't expect long-time sellers to have perfect feedback. It's unrealistic. A seller with that much feedback and 100% must have just descended the stairs from heaven, 'cause they're clearly not touched by mortal concerns.  :)

Any seller who's been selling on eBay for a given time is gonna run into the occasional impossible/ignorant customer or make an error. Big deal. It's unprofessional -- and a waste of time -- to obsess over feedback. Sell good products, take care of your customer, and the feedback will take care of itself.

I left a neg for a domestic seller who ignored me for a month-and-a-half. She later contacted me, gave me a believable excuse, and immediately made good on the transaction. She never did leave me a neg. I volunteered to withdraw my fb.

[As for selling only to PayPal Verified... That's crazy! I can't begin to calculate how many dollars I'd lose in sales if I kneecapped myself like that. Most international buyers couldn't get Verified if they wanted to. In four years of business, I've never had a PayPal transaction reversed. I'm sure it will happen someday; it comes with the territory.]

Game on, and good luck in sales...

  

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:09 pm 
 

Red Dawn...i hear what you say chummer, but the thing is...as a seller myself, i take a LOT of pride in what i do and it pisses me off no end when someone unreasonably pulls me up for something so ridiculous or it has absolutely nothing to do with me.

as i said i used to always leave feedback first as a seller.

i had a buyer a while back purchase a copy of a judges guild item: masters of the mind. now my listing is all i can say about an item and for this one, it is quite clear what the item is as a description. the guy buys it and pays and i shipped it the next day. about a week later, he leaves me a neutral which says "dissappointed with product - wasnt an adventure" or something to that effect.

sorry like, but WTF is that all about? if the silly little muppet cant read my description, how is that a fault of mine? i did all i was meant to do as a SELLER...so it was a very unjust, unfair feedback...

so what do you do about that? sure you can say "well its no bid deal" etc etc like you say above etc...but why should i or others in the same situation suffer for that?

surely you see what i mean there?

:)

feedback isnt everything sure....but when its left with no proper reason at all...i think THAT is why you are left with the circumstances mentioned on this thread.

Al



  

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:09 pm 
 

red_dawn wrote:I'm always suspicious of 100% FB because I, as a buyer, don't expect long-time sellers to have perfect feedback. It's unrealistic. A seller with that much feedback and 100% must have just descended the stairs from heaven, 'cause they're clearly not touched by mortal concerns.  :)



Sometimes touched by the concerns of mere mortals . . .  :D

I've mentioned it several times before . . . but I've never had a complaint, never had a rude buyer, never had an unpleasant email and I've certainly never had anyone threaten me with a neg.  I continue to leave feedback first without waiting for buyers to do so and I'm at 2700 and 100%.  


I'm sure this is a combination of good service (which all the sellers on this thread and the acaeum provide - I'm not claiming to be any better), and luck.  Probably the fact that for 3 years I've busted my ass to make sure items ship out the within 0-2 days of payment received (90% being the day after) has alleviated the difficulty of impatient newbies.

Still, I'll continue to leave feedback first even if I eventually do get a few irrational buyers who neg me . . . I look at myself as a retail business as far as ebay is concerned.  In the real world, I would expect any store I shop at to treat me like gold and be concerned about what I want first.  If I didn't like the service, I should feel free to complain without fear that they would criticize me in return.  (NOTE:  I'm not foolish enough to believe this to be the case - I encounter uncaring rude employees all the time . . . still, that's not how it's supposed to work . . . )

Sometimes stores get an asshole customer who bitches when there is no good reason to.  What can you do?  Punish your good customers?  You've just got to suck it up and move on.

Of course, I understand the opposing viewpoint . . . It's just not something that concerns me as a seller.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:16 pm 
 

<EDIT> Red Dawn.....

I presume from your statement that you don't have to make your living selling stuff on eBay? You would fall into the catagory of 'wel established buyer', and therefor fall outside of the 80% of risky buyers we must all endure.

I can also read into your response that you are fairly literate and well educated, which also takes you outwith the majority of buyers on eBay.

I assume you are a US Citizen and haven't had first hand experience of the level of fraud on eBay, and the level to which eBay and PayPal protects the US citizen against the rest of the underworld.

<EDIT> That wasn't a response to you, Paul. I hit the 'Post' button instead of the 'Quote' button.  :oops:


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:24 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:I presume from your statement that you don't have to make your living selling stuff on eBay? You would fall into the catagory of 'wel established buyer', and therefor fall outside of the 80% of risky buyers we must all endure.

I can also read into your response that you are fairly literate and well educated, which also takes you outwith the majority of buyers on eBay.

I assume you are a US Citizen and haven't had first hand experience of the level of fraud on eBay, and the level to which eBay and PayPal protects the US citizen against the rest of the underworld.




Me?  I'm not sure - I make a sizable portion of my living through ebay.  It is my second job and a very important source of income (especially when my wife took a year off of work after our baby was born).  I couldn't have paid the mortgage and bills without it!



Nearly all my feedback is from selling - only a very small percentage from buying.  (3,718 feedback from buyers vs. only 681 feedback from sellers).



Even though I am a US citizen, I am completely at risk from fraud.  Paypal buyer protection extends to those in other countries.  Of the thousand or so international packages I've sent out, not one have I been able to prove was delivered.  This option is not really feasible for US sellers.  Global Priority, Airmail, Airmail parcel post and M-bag - none of them provide options for PROVING that the package was delivered.  Thus, it would only take one buyer to file a claim to say it didn't arrive and I couldn't gainsay them.  The only way to provide tracking is for much more expensive shipping options (if even).  It's not practical and no buyer would pay to cover the costs.  Therefore EVERY international sale I make is at risk for fraud.



I am only protected in the U.S.





<EDIT>  In light of Ian's above edit :D  , this post of mine now seems unnecessary.  I guess I'll leave it up though, as the part about US seller's risk for fraud is at least relevant.  <EDIT>


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:23 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:I assume you are a US Citizen and haven't had first hand experience of the level of fraud on eBay, and the level to which eBay and PayPal protects the US citizen against the rest of the underworld.

I just don't follow this logic at all. Being a U.S.-based seller is not a magical exemption from the threat of fraud.

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:31 pm 
 

Editted my post above, Paul. The comment was not directed at you. Sorry.

Xaxaxe wrote:Being a U.S.-based seller is not a magical exemption from the threat of fraud.

But PayPal offers a lot more protection to US Sellers than it does to those outside of the US.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:40 pm 
 

Fair enough — I suppose I haven't researched the regulations for UK or European sellers enough to really form an opinion.

After enduring my only attempted PayPal scam to date (just one so far, thank the gods), I went into robot mode and began following PayPal's recommendations to the letter: confirmed addresses and delivery confirmation for every package, even if it is sent Media Mail.

I also curtailed international shipments entirely (for exactly the reasons BtB mentioned), although, for the record, I would certainly be happy to use our "shipping club" idea for a fellow Acaeum user.

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:01 pm 
 

Beyondthebreach wrote:<EDIT>  In light of Ian's above edit :D  , this post of mine now seems unnecessary.  I guess I'll leave it up though, as the part about US seller's risk for fraud is at least relevant.  <EDIT>

You do make a valid point about USPS. The only way you can ship to UK customers with tracking and a signature is USPS Global Express. On orders over $150 I'd consider making it a requirement if you don't already have a bond of trust with the buyer.

That's why active participation in the forums is important. I have the benefit of a restricted audience for my auctions when I sell in open auction. The majority of my auctions go to the usual suspects, so my exposure to the unknown buyers is limited somewhat.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:42 pm 
 

Beyond the Breach: I've bought from you several times. I'm not surprised you have 100%. Some of the best-documented auctions I've ever seen, and never fail to impress. You just return to heaven on the weekends?  :P

I'm sure I've bought from other Acaeum members, certainly no dissappointments from the regulars here.

I don't sweat the lack of tracking on international shipments. If it gets over, say... $100 I'll think about adding Endicia insurance. So far I've never had to collect.

My mail loss/damage rate historically is less than one-tenth of 1% in my business.

My limited eBay selling experience: I've created/sold only, say... 100 eBay auctions in my time. None have gotten lost... (one complaint - my fault, forgot to enclose a promised insert, no neg)

The couple of negs in my fb are retaliatory. For the record, I don't lightly leave a neg. It must be for gross incompetence/asshat behavior on the part of the seller to receive one. I'll even accept a package as lost if the seller seems on the up-and-up. However, I feel it my duty to warn fellow buyers of any rock-bottom eBay sellers, even at the cost of incurring a neg. At over 1000, my fb is bulletproof at 99.9%

I understand that some of the fine sellers on this board may not turn a lot of product, and a neg may have more impact. Not everybody sells as much as Badmike or Beyond the Breach. Fair enough.

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:17 pm 
 

Well, there is a definite argument for NOT leaving auto feedback as a seller. I just got negged by a buyer who was not only late in paying, he didn't buy any sort of tracking or insurance. When the package didn't show up, I asked the PO to do a trace. They couldn't find it. I refunded the guy 99 cents for the auction PLUS the $4.05 shipping, no questions asked, no stipulations. This was weeks ago. Today, I get a neg.
I don't care overmuch about the neg, I'm a network engineer, not a pro eBay seller. But it certainly does irritate me that I am out a module after I went against my clearly stated rules and refunded the whole shebang to the ass bandit.


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