eBay feedback question from a buyer
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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:32 pm 
 

Hey all,



I recently BIN'ed an auction for Secrets of San Francisco for Call of Cthulhu.



Now I know, the seller sold (in order) a)contact me, b)receive payment, c)ship item,

and d)leave feedback.  Well, I got the item, but no feedback from the seller.  

I'm leary, as I only leave feedback after the seller does.



I query the seller, and get this response:



We do not consider a transaction complete until the customer has received
their merchandise and is satisfied with their purchase. Due to the volume of
transactions we handle each week we have automated this process. Once we
receive feedback our automated system will return in kind. We hope you are
satisfied with your purchase and look forward to your feedback and future
business.




8O



Is that even remotely legit?  Or is that feedback hostage?


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:40 pm 
 

MrFilthyIke wrote:
Is that even remotely legit?  Or is that feedback hostage?


It has already been debated (but I am unable to find the post). For me it is feedback hostage, to avoid negative feedback. If you ask to seller, they will say that this is to complete the transaction *humhum*, I really don't think so...

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:53 pm 
 

Most sellers that I have dealt with wait until after the buyer post feedback before they leave theirs.  Mainly to give the retalitory feedback if the buyer is not happy.

Although the seller could leave you feedback after they have received payment and it is then out of their hands they tend to hold the feedback hostage.  Ebay has no rules on this.

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:05 pm 
 

Mars wrote:Most sellers that I have dealt with wait until after the buyer post feedback before they leave theirs.  Mainly to give the retalitory feedback if the buyer is not happy.

Although the seller could leave you feedback after they have received payment and it is then out of their hands they tend to hold the feedback hostage.  Ebay has no rules on this.


I understand that, I'm just offened by the use of it.  Everything on this transaction was just peachy till this, now I'm cheesed off.  I'll have to sit on this.  Might threaten to get ebay involved, as this is his livelyhood.

[email protected]#k with the money, and people take notice.  :evil:


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:25 pm 
 

as a seller i always leave feedback first, so hence, when i buy, i always expect the seller to leave first.

if i know them, its ok, but if i dont, then i wait and if it doesnt get left, then so be it.

i have one instance of that at the moment but in the end, i dont really care. i have said i will leave it, but they chose to ignore me! *shrugs*

Al



  

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:26 pm 
 

MrFilthyIke wrote:
Mars wrote:Most sellers that I have dealt with wait until after the buyer post feedback before they leave theirs.  Mainly to give the retalitory feedback if the buyer is not happy.

Although the seller could leave you feedback after they have received payment and it is then out of their hands they tend to hold the feedback hostage.  Ebay has no rules on this.


I understand that, I'm just offened by the use of it.  Everything on this transaction was just peachy till this, now I'm cheesed off.  I'll have to sit on this.  Might threaten to get ebay involved, as this is his livelyhood.

[email protected]#k with the money, and people take notice.  :evil:


Ike, it won't do any good to get ebay involved.  If he is using an automated system, he is probably using ebay's own software to leave "mass" feedback.  I can tell by his feedback number that this is how he is probably doing it (all those 10,000 + sellers almost have to use automated responses).  Ebay enables them to do this with the selling manager pro options available to online store owners.  Essentially, they just program in  a few standard responses and when they receive positive feedback, then positive feedback is automatically left in return.

It boils down to this - there is nothing you can do to stop it.  

If you want a quick positive, just leave him one (you can probably sit and watch your feedback rating go up as the return feedback usually arrives in less than 10 mintutes).

If it really bothers you, don't leave him feedback at all.  You'll never get one in return however.


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:48 pm 
 

I was flicking through a copy of that in a Playing Games in Bloomsbury the other day - it looks great !  I understand that they have really worked to build in links for all the other previous scenarios and sourcebooks that were set nearby or mentioned the area.


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:05 pm 
 

Badmike has already sounded off on the seller's side, and I sympathize with his position....EBay is a nice place, but there are still idiots allowed into the mix.

As far as I can see, feedback extortion is the norm.

When one seller recently surprised me by posting immediate feedback...right after I paid...I sent him a thank you note.  Very classy.

If this guy really pisses you off, wait 90 days after your purchase and then...at the last second...post a negative.  Kind of dirty pool, however, if your only beef is with common feedback courtesy.

I have one seller at the moment who is ignoring my emails to him.  I have never left a negative, but I am considering it in his case.  90 days.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:45 pm 
 

As a seller, I have left negative feedback twice. Once because some idiot neged me for not leaving feedback within a week of the auction closing. The other was some guy who overpayed shipping - his own error - and then neged me for not catching it. I had to neg both of them to get to the mutual retraction  system working.

I used to always leave positive feedback when I shipped items. Buyers knew item was shipped. Then I got hammered five times in less than two months from international buyers. That was the end of my feedback policy. Now, my invoice and auctions clearly state I will leave positive feedback when buyer confirms delivery and satisfaction - which they can do by leaving feedback. It cuts down on my feedback totals, but at least I have some protection from the idiots out there.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:00 pm 
 

MrFilthyIke wrote:Might threaten to get ebay involved, as this is his livelyhood.

To do what, exactly? Since when is leaving feedback on Bay mandatory for either party? :?

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:02 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:Badmike has already sounded off on the seller's side, and I sympathize with his position....EBay is a nice place, but there are still idiots allowed into the mix.

As far as I can see, feedback extortion is the norm.

When one seller recently surprised me by posting immediate feedback...right after I paid...I sent him a thank you note.  Very classy.

If this guy really pisses you off, wait 90 days after your purchase and then...at the last second...post a negative.  Kind of dirty pool, however, if your only beef is with common feedback courtesy.

I have one seller at the moment who is ignoring my emails to him.  I have never left a negative, but I am considering it in his case.  90 days.

Mark   8)


I would add that for Acaeum members or those I've dealt with multiple times, I will often leave feedback first.  But it's just not worth it to get a neg from the clueless newbie that can't understand why he hasn't received his item in three days after paying (true story).

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:21 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:I would add that for Acaeum members or those I've dealt with multiple times, I will often leave feedback first.

I'll often leave it first for a guy who is at 8 or 9 (because that yellow star is kind of cool), or for buyers who seem mature and able to handle eBay — but only after checking to make sure they don't have a history of leaving unwarranted retaliatory feedback.

I also find it ironic that the author of this thread, along with many of the people who respond to these sorts of threads in favor of somehow forcing sellers to leave feedback first, have, in fact, NEVER SOLD ANYTHING ON EBAY. I guess it's pretty easy to criticize when you've never paid a penny in eBay and PayPal fees and you've never had to deal with any of the headaches that eBay sellers often endure.

Buy, hey — to steal a line from BC — maybe it's just me. What the hell do I know? :?  :?  :?

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:21 pm 
 

Another post from the sellers side.  I don't leave feedback till I get it first, but it's truly NOT a ploy to get you to leave me a positive.  I'm at the point where my feedback rating is pleasant enough that it doesn't adversly effect my sales so GETTING good feedback doesn't really do too much.  But, a negative would still hurt.  All I want is confirmation that the item arrived safe and sound and I'll be happy to leave a glowing happy comment and a buyer can then leave me one in return if they want to.  I have the automatic set-up mentioned before where you'll get one in return if you leave one, it's an INCREDIBLE time saver over leaving individual feedback, the system is cumbersome to search through pages and pages of sales to figure out which items need feedback.  

I know some people will see it as extorsion, but it keeps my business running smoothly so my policy won't be changing.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:27 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:If this guy really pisses you off, wait 90 days after your purchase and then...at the last second...post a negative.

Anyone who would actually do this to a seller solely over feedback not received would be the absolute scum of the earth.

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:36 pm 
 

Reindeergamez wrote:Another post from the sellers side.  I don't leave feedback till I get it first, but it's truly NOT a ploy to get you to leave me a positive.  I'm at the point where my feedback rating is pleasant enough that it doesn't adversly effect my sales so GETTING good feedback doesn't really do too much.  But, a negative would still hurt.  All I want is confirmation that the item arrived safe and sound and I'll be happy to leave a glowing happy comment and a buyer can then leave me one in return if they want to.  I have the automatic set-up mentioned before where you'll get one in return if you leave one, it's an INCREDIBLE time saver over leaving individual feedback, the system is cumbersome to search through pages and pages of sales to figure out which items need feedback.  

I know some people will see it as extorsion, but it keeps my business running smoothly so my policy won't be changing.


Ditto Reindeer.  I've thought about switching to the auto myself, to save time, but haven't yet.  It's not worth getting an unwarrented neg to leave feedback first when you've worked so hard to make the feedback overwhelmingly positive.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:40 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:As a seller, I have left negative feedback twice. Once because some idiot neged me for not leaving feedback within a week of the auction closing. The other was some guy who overpayed shipping - his own error - and then neged me for not catching it. I had to neg both of them to get to the mutual retraction  system working.

I used to always leave positive feedback when I shipped items. Buyers knew item was shipped. Then I got hammered five times in less than two months from international buyers. That was the end of my feedback policy. Now, my invoice and auctions clearly state I will leave positive feedback when buyer confirms delivery and satisfaction - which they can do by leaving feedback. It cuts down on my feedback totals, but at least I have some protection from the idiots out there.


My story is very close to Bbarsh.  I just decided one day it wasn't worth the hassle, and I can't tell you how much every aspect of the process improved as soon as I stopped leaving feedback first. Everything goes much smoother now.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:43 pm 
 

As a seller, the only form of deterrant you have against ignorant and badly educated buyers is to give feedback after the buyer has left theirs. I would be stupid to send a product across the world to someone I don't know and leave positive feedback on faith alone that I wasn't going to be screwed.

If you have faith in the honest and integrity of the buyer, that's a different matter. I'll leave feedback first on trust and with the experience that the buyer is honest and descent.

But if I don't know the buyer, I'm not going to assume that they are honest and descent and put my reputation and money behind that. The majority of people on eBay are illiterate and ignorant assholes. I try to filter them out by only stocking items that only appeal to those people who have the interest and intelligence to collect FRPs and broaden their horisons beyont the obvious, but they still get through.

Until eBay introduces a basic IQ test and introduces a policy of not supporting eBay fraud, I will withhold feedback and restrict bidding to 'confirmed ' PayPal addresses, as they are my only defence all the online scum.

I admit that buyers who are honest and trustworthy, and very descent people, sometimes feel like they are entitles to have feedback first, but they are not the ones trying to do business on eBay, and they don't have thousands of dollars tied up in an online business. If they resent the fact that they feel like they have to earn someone's trust, then that's an ego problem. Trust has to be earned in all walks of life. You are not entitled to it.

Anyone who complains about the inequity of this is only demonstrating their ignorance of how loaded eBay and PayPal are towards the anonymous buyer. And that level of ignorance is not a good sign.


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:46 pm 
 

Seems to me this is a lot of ado about a trivial thing. I was right last year, people will be changing to a different naming scheme.
You can now address me as [email protected] (591).


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:48 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:
MShipley88 wrote:If this guy really pisses you off, wait 90 days after your purchase and then...at the last second...post a negative.

Anyone who would actually do this to a seller solely over feedback not received would be the absolute scum of the earth.

I have to second that. That would be WAY out of order. And to be honest, if someone gets pissed off over the order in which feedback is left, that is really quite sad.


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:54 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:As a seller, the only form of deterrant you have against ignorant and badly educated buyers is to give feedback after the buyer has left theirs. I would be stupid to send a product across the world to someone I don't know and leave positive feedback on faith alone that I wasn't going to be screwed.

If you have faith in the honest and integrity of the buyer, that's a different matter. I'll leave feedback first on trust and with the experience that the buyer is honest and descent.

But if I don't know the buyer, I'm not going to assume that they are honest and descent and put my reputation and money behind that. The majority of people on eBay are illiterate and ignorant assholes. I try to filter them out by only stocking items that only appeal to those people who have the interest and intelligence to collect FRPs and broaden their horisons beyont the obvious, but they still get through.

Until eBay introduces a basic IQ test and introduces a policy of not supporting eBay fraud, I will withhold feedback and restrict bidding to 'confirmed ' PayPal addresses, as they are my only defence all the online scum.

I admit that buyers who are honest and trustworthy, and very descent people, sometimes feel like they are entitles to have feedback first, but they are not the ones trying to do business on eBay, and they don't have thousands of dollars tied up in an online business. If they resent the fact that they feel like they have to earn someone's trust, then that's an ego problem. Trust has to be earned in all walks of life. You are not entitled to it.

Anyone who complains about the inequity of this is only demonstrating their ignorance of how loaded eBay and PayPal are towards the anonymous buyer. And that level of ignorance is not a good sign.


Ian makes a good point. Those that do what I do are very, very luckywe are in the hobby we enjoy.  Th emajority of my buyers are intelligent, patient, thoughtful people.  I know those that sell baseball cards, comics, baby clothes, etc online.  You would not believe the level of human trash some other areas of ebay has to deal with daily.  Fraud, non payment, chargebacks, ripoffs, unwarrented bad feedback, etc are the norm.  I've been very lucky in my few forays outside of the RPG resale business (in music CDs and Fantasy/SF novels), I am now very cautiously entering back into the comics area (after dropping it several years ago due to a disturbing level of non payment and "lost" packages) and I hope it won't negatively bite me on the ass.  
  I know ebay has a mechanism to filter out the zero bidder, and although in the long run this would benefit me and my business (as zero bidders are by far the largest nonpayers), on the flipside I have met a lot of nice newbies that were absolutely thrilled to have their first transaction on Ebay go well.  So trust plays a big part, but it is naive to think there aren't people out there that won't take advantage of you.

Mike B.


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