Rob J. Kuntz's CAIRN OF THE SKELETON KING update info
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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:53 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote:I'm in a minority here, obviously.

I preordered & prepaid for 5 CoSK to support Rob's new endeavor.

But I've seen nothing so far. No contact, except a request for even more money. No emailed thank-you, not even a form letter. (I have investors in my two companies. This isn't how you treat investors.)

And now I'm in the midst of major activity, heading to GenCon.
And ToB is being co-authored; it's not pure Kuntz.

The preorder for ToB should have come hard on the heels of the arrival of CoSK, not while it's still vapor. The timing sucks. The planning sucks. The treatment of investors sucks.

So I'm not in on the second release at all. Not even one.

As one of the earliest supporters of CoSK, I expected to get a chance for an early buy-in on ToB, prenotification perhaps. I could and would have put another hundred or two into Rob's pot. But since I'm busy and wasn't checking my email each hour of each day, I missed out on this one entirely. So now other collector/investors have bought up all the runics & numbered copies for stockpiling, and Rob's system allows for and even encourages that.

Since I wasn't worth the consideration of Pied Piper, my support isn't worth my consideration either. I'm out.

::shrug::

IF I like CoSK, I'll probably buy one ToB. Perhaps.


ExTSR wrote:
You have it backwards, sir.

It's an issue that Rob (or his business manager) should contact his investor/supporters about.

And it's none of my business how Rob chooses to handle his investors. I have my own businesses to worry about.


Well, I agree with you Frank and to be 100% honest, I do not think that you are in the minority.  If I had to guess you are part of a large, yet until this point silent majority. :)

BTW, Have you ever considered writing something new and selling it yourself. I am pretty sure that the cummunity at large would also heavily support it to make it worth your time. :)


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:29 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote:
You have it backwards, sir.

It's an issue that Rob (or his business manager) should contact his investor/supporters about.

And it's none of my business how Rob chooses to handle his investors. I have my own businesses to worry about.


Considering your clout, it wouldn't hurt to give him a jingle.  :D  
I'm not his business manager, but I'll definitely give him the low down tomorrow when we process the orders for shipping!!

Here's the email to voice your opinion! [email protected]


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:40 pm 
 

am actually finding it really hard to come out with some words here.

i just hope that one day, i will be so good at everything that i can fill the same boots that y'all do.

cut the guy some slack for gods sake, and give him a chance to iron out the kinks. nobody is perfect and everyone has a different vision on how things are done.

ah feck it i cant be arsed listening to this anymore.

Al



  


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:46 pm 
 

Jeez, Frank, Vaporware?

The ill-favored commentray is just a little heavy isn't it? I am in the middle of packaging CotSK orders as we chat here.

Everyone got the email at the same time, or within a few minutes of me announcing the drive for ToB; and I have shown no favoratism.  I cannot track people's lives or all 150 previous supporters for that matter to know when the best time to email everything should occur.

And if folks would rather not order speciific copies until they see the first, then that's OK too.

I have nothing but respect for my fans and for the generous supporters and I do not think that starting a sponsor drive for ToB in any way minimizes that.

If this is about the numbered copies, hell, I'll send you author copies instead.  Just don't see why there is such a negative reaction as you've put forth.

Rob


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:01 pm 
 

Did anyone gripe when Frank nabbed #1-5 or Paul Stormberg got A-E?

Not that I know of--it was all timing, Paul, who is usually not online, was on and jumped on the timing, so did Frank.  And Frank, I sent you a thank you email right after that and informed you of the numbers.

Jeez, Folks should lighten up a bit, I feel, but I blame the runic stuff of Allan Grohe, who thought it would be a good idea.  Maybe I was wrong and will have to reconsider how to retool this or perhaps suspend the runics so there is not such a rampant reaction as I've seen.  That was not the intention. of course.

Peace.

RJk


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:13 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:am actually finding it really hard to come out with some words here.

i just hope that one day, i will be so good at everything that i can fill the same boots that y'all do.

cut the guy some slack for gods sake, and give him a chance to iron out the kinks. nobody is perfect and everyone has a different vision on how things are done.

ah feck it i cant be arsed listening to this anymore.

Al


Al, I am not criticizing Rob at all.  In this circumstance what is done is done.  The thing that bothers me is that there are people out there, who if they haven't yet are most certainly going to take advantage of the system the way it is and the folks who end up losing out are two fold. First off you have collectors who have a ton of interest.  Secondly Rob in the long run will end up losing out as well because first off someone can and will be profiteering off of his products and also this same profiteering that will be occuring, will come at the expense of the people the Rob is looking to reach out to.  These same people who are ending up being screwed in the process are also less likely to participate the next time around and if that is the case everyone loses.


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:17 pm 
 

Robilar wrote:Jeez, Folks should lighten up a bit, I feel, but I blame the runic stuff of Allan Grohe, who thought it would be a good idea.

Eh... I'd better take some of the flak, too, in that case, following my original DF  post. :?
It did seem like a good idea in this context; and I know it can, and does, work elsewhere) to help boost the initial cashflow and increase the chance of a successful launch. All in favor of that, of course...

Re-tooling, phps; dunno... Various suggestions above, anyhow.

=
(@Brian: I don't think /anyone/ can stop people "profiteering" of what others have created.
Or do people donate an extra 10% of the purchase price to the original authors when they buy a woodgrain or ltd. DCC, say?).


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:24 pm 
 

I appreciate the support of Acaeum members immensely, do not get me wrong, but I cannot cater ot a select customer base without insulting yet someone else.  These are limited editions.  Limited means limited in the time that they are offered and in the time that folks have their chances to buy them.  They are of wahtever value folks place on them.  

As a note, two other CotSK purchasers, Mark Hollway and Derick Landwehr, were greatly surprised and pleased to receive some runics, as they had never had that chance before.  Now, I was enouraged by Frank, in particular, in the last drive to "hold some early issues back" for the new fans, so that they might get some; now what I'm hearing, though I never did do as he suggested, is the complete opposite!  :0

I don't get this at all.  They are limited, some are going to get them and some will not, but from now on I will at least limit the purchases to 5 and no more so at least 5-10 folks will get some.  Otherwise I do not know what to do to satisfy everyone, as that's probably impossible.

RJK


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:35 pm 
 

The Robilar wrote:but from now on I will at least limit the purchases to 5 and no more so at least 5-10 folks will get some.

(I was presuming 5 to be an absolute max, anyhow, even if there was no limit stated).

The Robilar wrote:Otherwise I do not know what to do to satisfy everyone, as that's probably impossible.

Yeah... Which is the trouble with some other "solutions" like increasing the premium (complaints about cost) or increasing the number (complaints about diluting the rarity!).

*sigh*. Hopefully none of this will detract from the enjoyment of creating and playing the module, Rob.
If those are shrinkwrapped, I'll deal with /that/ quickly enough regardless of the letter/number/whatever. :)

And, like I said, still only 500 for now and enough time to book a copy after CotSK arrives (but reprints would good to see, should the project go well).

Regards,
David.


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:39 pm 
 

faro wrote:
(@Brian: I don't think /anyone/ can stop people "profiteering" of what others have created.
Or do people donate an extra 10% of the purchase price to the original authors when they buy a woodgrain or ltd. DCC, say?).


I think that you are comparing apples and oranges in this situation.  This is a new product that has never before seen the market and the seller, in this circumstance Rob, can control exactly who gets what.  In the circumstance of a woodgrain or DCC 3.5 they are now out of print.  If one comes up for sale, its one copy and one copy only, and everyone has a chance to win. In that circumstance, you put your money where your mouth is. Whoever bids the most wins.  In that circumstance, if you don't bid enough and lose, you can only look in the mirror for who to blame.

Like I said, its only a matter of time before someone like Cougarrinard(who if you look at the list for CotSK list, was a Gold Dragon sponsor)  comes along and buys all of the Runic and half of the numbered leaving lots of people hanging out to dry.  You and I both know that dear old Dave wasn't contributing to the project out of the goodness of his own heart, he was doing so to profit, greatly.  It is only a matter of time before good ole' Coug starts listing them on EBay 1 at a time at some silly reserve price of like $200.


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:42 pm 
 

The Robilar wrote:
Everyone got the email at the same time, or within a few minutes of me announcing the drive for ToB.

Rob


Rob, its really not a big deal, but I actually never got an email.  I found out because Shane<Plaag> posted here that he had just bought some.  :)


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:46 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
Al, I am not criticizing Rob at all.  In this circumstance what is done is done.  The thing that bothers me is that there are people out there, who if they haven't yet are most certainly going to take advantage of the system the way it is and the folks who end up losing out are two fold. First off you have collectors who have a ton of interest.  Secondly Rob in the long run will end up losing out as well because first off someone can and will be profiteering off of his products and also this same profiteering that will be occuring, will come at the expense of the people the Rob is looking to reach out to.  These same people who are ending up being screwed in the process are also less likely to participate the next time around and if that is the case everyone loses.


so did goodman games do that when they released Haunted Lighthouse at the con? i dont think so. you reckong some ppl out there grabbed a few copes? very likely.

put it this way, i was DAMN lucky to get a ToB runic. i joked about it with Rob last night. i really was right at the end. sure, i would have been very dissappointed not to get one if i didnt, but i wouldnt have complained about it....just chalk it down to "one of them things" and for damn sure, it would not have changed my opinion to support Rob the next time round. the only reaon i wouldnt get the next one would be if these ones were utter shite, which i know they wont be.

now i have been a very stauch supporter of him and my mind would not change if i didnt get one either. for my mind, i think next time the feckin runics should be discarded. then nobody can complain.

christ sake guys, the whole feckin print run is limited to 500 copies anyway....isnt that limited enough anyway?

i really dont know what else to say.

for some reaon i find myself very dissappointed here.

ttfn

Al



  

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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:50 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:I think that you are comparing apples and oranges in this situation.  This is a new product that has never before seen the market and the seller, in this circumstance Rob, can control exactly who gets what.  In the circumstance of a woodgrain or DCC 3.5 they are now out of print.  If one comes up for sale, its one copy and one copy only, and everyone has a chance to win.

Apples and oranges seem to taste very similar for those DCCs.
#20.5 was from GenCon Indy 2005 and selling at up to $75 within a couple of months of being sold out.
The point I was replying to was the "profiteering off of his products" one. Exactly the same could've been said re. Goodman & Jason Little for that DCC. Once they're sold, they're sold; free market, etc. ...

bclarkie wrote:Like I said, its only a matter of time before someone like Cougarrinard(who if you look at the list for CotSK list, was a Gold Dragon sponsor)  comes along and buys all of the Runic and half of the numbered leaving lots of people hanging out to dry.

Only "hung out to dry" (until an unlimited edition comes along) if he buys all 500. Now that would be worth a laugh more than anything else, I think.
(1 x Titanium Dragon sponsor only. :D)


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:53 pm 
 

Brian, you are correct.  I just spent a few looking through the master email list, then, went back through the saved Sponsor orders, and your name does not appear in either.  I will put this under clerical error on my part in the first drive, as I culled all of the emails off of the orders as received from Paypal, unless one sent a check, and in those case I entered them manually.

Forgive my oversight and to make amends I will offer you #'s 1 and #2 of my own 10 author's copies.

Mistakes will happen, and all I can do is apologize for that.  Sorry.

Best,

Rob


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:54 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote: Like I said, its only a matter of time before someone like Cougarrinard(who if you look at the list for CotSK list, was a Gold Dragon sponsor)  comes along and buys all of the Runic and half of the numbered leaving lots of people hanging out to dry.  You and I both know that dear old Dave wasn't contributing to the project out of the goodness of his own heart, he was doing so to profit, greatly.  It is only a matter of time before good ole' Coug starts listing them on EBay 1 at a time at some silly reserve price of like $200.


sorry BC but i have something to say at this point. i spoke to dave directly. i know him a fair bit better than most. i dont advocate what he does or doesnt do...thats not my place and thats his life.

BUT the guy does like D&D and he does have his own collection. after talking to Rob some time ago, i spread the word about CotSK and i thought Dave would prb be interested and told him to contact Rob. which i now see he did and they did biz directly. sorry but the guy was supporting the product for pretty much the same reason i was "its nice to see something old school and interesting hit the market again". what he does with them at a later date, is his choice and nobody elses....same as me, david, you, ian or anyone else.

that one goes back to the old argument of the investor v the collector. neither one will ever see eye to eye with the other.

Alan



  


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:57 pm 
 

I would like to say that I do not consider what Goodman Games did the same as what Rob is doing now the same.  I say this because, and this is nothing against Joe Goodman or Goodman Games, but I don't consider the 2 in even the same ball park. :)  With that though, I have said my piece.


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:02 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:I would like to say that I do not consider what Goodman Games did the same as what Rob is doing now the same.  I say this because, and this is nothing against Joe Goodman or Goodman Games, but I don't consider the 2 in even the same ball park. :)  With that though, I have said my piece.


me too. am just getting myself more and more p'd off here.

*goes and looks for an alchoholic beverage to calms down with*

Al



  


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:38 pm 
 

The Robilar wrote:Brian, you are correct.  I just spent a few looking through the master email list, then, went back through the saved Sponsor orders, and your name does not appear in either.  I will put this under clerical error on my part in the first drive, as I culled all of the emails off of the orders as received from Paypal, unless one sent a check, and in those case I entered them manually.

Forgive my oversight and to make amends I will offer you #'s 1 and #2 of my own 10 author's copies.

Mistakes will happen, and all I can do is apologize for that.  Sorry.

Best,

Rob


Hey Rob,
 Thanks for the extremely generous offer, but I can not accept it. :)   I am sure that there are far more deserving folks out there that should be given those copies(this is of course going on the assumption that you weren't planning to keep those for yourself anyway).  People that worked hard on this project with you and IMO they should be the ones who get those copies if anyone should.

I think my message may have gotten lost in what appears to me bitching.  I am really not bitching.  I was(am) disappointed at the fact that I missed out on getting a Runic copy or two, but I am not looking to change that fact.  The fact is that i did miss out, but I will get over it. I may have missed out even if the system was different, who knows, what's done is done.   The only thing that I am trying to point out is that the system as it stands right now can be exploited by people who don't give a rats rear-end about you or anyone else in this hobby for that matter.  If that happens, everyone stands to lose out.  That's my only conern.


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:44 pm 
 

The Robilar wrote:I was enouraged by Frank, in particular, in the last drive to "hold some early issues back" for the new fans, so that they might get some; now what I'm hearing, though I never did do as he suggested, is the complete opposite!


Then sir, I suggest you have your hearing checked.

I feel strongly (obviously) that those who supported you in the first project had earned some preference in the second -- not preference to the extent of excluding others, merely an inside chance to get one or two special copies of the next project. Instead, some of us have been shut out completely. That, as I have said, has sent a loud and clear message.

Thanks for mentioning my urging you to be more fair. I specifically said that I should not get numbers 1-5... #1, fine, in view of my luck and promptness, and (I suggested) 4 other randomly selected numbered/signed items (those being what I paid for). So y'see, I'm not saying "try this but of course it should affect everybody but me". I'm asking on behalf of the hundreds of old-school gamers who don't have a chance at these special things because they're gobbled up in quantity by investors.

Now unlike some, I'm not ashamed of investing. Some key items will remain in my collection, and at least one will be used in a real game. And I do indeed plan on reselling some of what I've bought, however much ridicule that incurs. I am both a collector and a businessman, and apologize for neither.

When those who are willing to ante up cash to support your projects eventually tire of competing for the chance to do so, your endeavor will be in trouble. I thus suggest you reconsider your business methodology.

If this is about the numbered copies, hell, I'll send you author copies instead.


No thanks. I don't want any favored treatment, just a level playing field.

.
(And it is exceedingly odd that I am bitching more than bclarkie. ;>)

  

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Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:44 pm 
 

I think my message may have gotten lost in what appears to me bitching.  I am really not bitching.  I was(am) disappointed at the fact that I missed out on getting a Runic copy or two, but I am not looking to change that fact.  The fact is that i did miss out, but I will get over it. I may have missed out even if the system was different, who knows, what's done is done.   The only thing that I am trying to point out is that the system as it stands right now can be exploited by people who don't give a rats rear-end about you or anyone else in this hobby for that matter.  If that happens, everyone stands to lose out.  That's my only conern.


Well said!

  
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