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Grandstanding Collector
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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:50 pm 
 

Of course...in the whole scheme of things...it is no biggie.  It's all just paper, right?

Maybe he just doesn't know what to say...and maybe I shouldn't expect an answer.

I guess he irritated me enough to make me keep bringing it up....I guess I've officially crossed over from legitimate beef to just bellyaching.

What I really really wanted him to say was, "Sorry about that.  I'll try to improve my service in the future."  Doesn't look like that's happening.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:00 pm 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:Neg time.

Amen.

It's the height of irony that there is currently an ongoing discussion of "who should leave feedback first," while this thread involves the case of a seller who, frankly, could use a little wake-up call.

He misrepresented the item.

He added a totally arbitrary handle-me charge.

He has been, I gather, unresponsive.

Seriously, what more is required to leave negative feedback?

Either blast him or leave no feedback at all — just don't be dazzled by his "industry figure" status. That doesn't mean he gets to jack around with other people's money.

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:48 pm 
 

I sent him a link to this thread.


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:52 pm 
 

Turns out the seller was out of the country over the past couple of weeks.  

In other words, he hadn't seen my Ebay message to him, and sending him the link was a needlessly petty thing to do.

It seems I have lost perspective.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:52 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:Turns out the seller was out of the country over the past couple of weeks.  

In other words, he hadn't seen my Ebay message to him, and sending him the link was a needlessly petty thing to do.

It seems I have lost perspective.

You can always append the above explanation to your first post so anyone reading this thread in the future will not get the wrong impression of the seller.

You didn't have perfect information, so you acted on the information that you did have.  *shrug*  I personally would have been far less patient than you have been and would have posted negative feedback long ago.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:56 am 
 

hey mark, youre not a mind-reader mate. whatever his circumstances are, you were not to know.

it is a common thing where sellers reply very slowly or not at all, so you take a view that a delay in replying is one of them options.

if the guy has any nouse about it, the situation can still be fixed, all can still be happy with the transaction and a possible future sale again would still be there due to the nature of settling a current issue.

why have you lost perspective? i would have prb done exactly the same and that was echoed by others here chummer.

Al


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:23 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:hey mark, youre not a mind-reader mate. whatever his circumstances are, you were not to know.

it is a common thing where sellers reply very slowly or not at all, so you take a view that a delay in replying is one of them options.

if the guy has any nouse about it, the situation can still be fixed, all can still be happy with the transaction and a possible future sale again would still be there due to the nature of settling a current issue.

why have you lost perspective? i would have prb done exactly the same and that was echoed by others here chummer.

Al


When I say, "lost perspective," I mean that I should have simply waited for a response and not sent a link to the seller that could be hurtful and/or counter-productive.  I wish I had simply contacted the seller.  The thing is, I really was looking for advice when I started this thread.  From his reasonable perspective, I made a public matter out of what should have been a private matter.

Also, when I say, "lost perspective" I mean that my main desire has simply been to hear, "Oh, I'm sorry," from a writer I admire.  Feeling like I'd been taken advantage of made me feel like the time at Disneyland, when I was three years-old, and Mickey Mouse yelled at me for pulling his tail.  (Actually happened! 8O )

With hindsight, sending him the link seems rather petty.  (I am perfectly willing to be childish...but not petty. :D )  

As it is, he has been pretty cool about the whole matter.  Hopefully, he'll join the Acaeum and jump in on this thread to explain his side of things.  I hope he chooses to stick around and join these posts because he seems like a pretty good guy.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:30 pm 
 

well tbh being part of the history of all this that we do, i hope he does join the Acaeum. could add to a few more cool discussions all round.

certainly wouldnt do any harm !

Al

*waves to Greg Stafford*


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:50 pm 
 

I've got no problem with Greg (or whomever, really) joining, but I do feel a little bit blindsided.

Actually, this thread completely baffles me. Mark, you came here asking for opinions, and you got some good, strong ones, but I guess they weren't what you wanted to hear, and now, FORTY-NINE days after the auction ended, we're still discussing it. Honestly, I'm lost.

And it's even better that those of us who actually took the time to give you our honest, non-PC thoughts are going to look like complete dickheads now that you've thoughtfully provided the target of YOUR original problem with a link here. Lesson learned, I guess: providing an honest answer will get you burned every time.

So, Greg, welcome to The Acaeum. I admire much of your "classic era" work, and I'm sure you've got a lot to contribute here. I have no doubt your presence will make this site a better place. I don't agree at all with your eBay policies, though — had you done this to me, you would have gotten negative feedback without hesitation.

One last thought: if this had been anybody who wasn't an "industry figure," we would have had him on the Shady Dealer and/or Laughable Description threads and we would have been mocking him without mercy. I was naive enough to believe that the rules on eBay applied to everyone. Shame on me; I know better now.

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:07 pm 
 

not at all - i agree too.

if someone hikes a fee onto me no apparent reason that can be seen, i would create an issue over it anyway. if it wasnt addressed i would leave a neutral at best, negative at worst.

dont matter who you are, you cant treat ppl like that - it just aint cricket.

Al


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:00 pm 
 

:x


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:06 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:As it is, he has been pretty cool about the whole matter.  Hopefully, he'll join the Acaeum and jump in on this thread to explain his side of things.  I hope he chooses to stick around and join these posts because he seems like a pretty good guy.

Thanks for the kind words Mark.
I AM a firm believer in the Orlanthi maxim: We all make mistakes. The best we can do it try to correct them.
Let's start with:
MShipley88 wrote:
improvstone wrote:Mark
Can you clarify.  Is the handling cost in addition to the cost generated by the shipping calculator or is your total cost the same as the shipping calculator?

    Yes....or rather, No:  There is no mention of a "handling fee" in the text of the auction or in the postage calculator.  It was attached entirely after the fact.
Mark   8)

Mark is correct: I overcharged him for the handling charges.

MShipley88 wrote:Just a follow-up for anyone interested:
  All The Worlds Monsters II arrived two days ago.  (Sigh  :( ) It was saddle stitched, and not perfect bound as the seller had said.

Again, Mark was correct. I screwed up.

NOW, of course I had to do this, twice to the same guy. *sigh*

Just for the record:
When I added the handling fee in I was really new to this eBay thing. I didn't see it in the invoice, so I added it in where I thought it belonged.

The really alarming thing about it all is that NO ONE brought this up to me, until Later when Zhowar contacted me with a question about it. I worked through things and realized what I'd done, and fixed it by not adding that anymore.
But much to my consternation, I never did get info on who I'd screwed out of the $4. This was a problem for me, thanks to that damnable Orlanthi "fix it" urge I have. I consulted with some friends who are much more experienced and wise in this than I, and they just suggested I drop it and keep moving forward, which I've done.
If Mark, or anyone else who I overcharged, wishes to contact me (off list, please!) I'll be happy to send back their overcharge.

Then, of course, I had to fumble my eBay skill again with Mark on ATWM 2. Believe me, I DO know the difference between saddle stitched and perfect bound, and I can only wonder what time of night I replied to his email.
For the record, I'd be more than happy to accept the item back for full refund. It was my error.

I guess the good news it that it FINALLY got some communication going on this to resolve it.

REALLY, though, I've read over this thread. The thing that strikes me most is the presumption that many people had about this, and that it wasn't everyone who urged Mark to send an email asking if this was deliberate or not. It'd have saved a whole lot of angst.

Zhowar and Improvstone, you guys were right on top of things there urging Mark to contact me. I am REALLY glad that he did, and happy to come here to make this statement.

Xaxaxe said
You're being more than fair, Mark. Being an "industry figure" does not grant a license to post inaccurate listings or to randomly add handling charges ex post facto.


And I'd agree. But I just want to say that being an "industry figure" also does not mean we don't make mistakes too.
And Xaxaxe continues,
And it's even better that those of us who actually took the time to give you our honest, non-PC thoughts are going to look like complete dickheads now that you've thoughtfully provided the target of YOUR original problem with a link here. Lesson learned, I guess: providing an honest answer will get you burned every time.

I would respectfully disagree with your conclusion here. First of all, this is a public forum and I could have discovered it myself and so it's not about Mark having invited me to see your candor and willingness to bitch about something in trying to help a friend. You should NEVER write something down that you wouldn't want to see in the wrong hands. EVER. And I don't think you have been burned. Well, at least not by my opinion.

Finally, Mark: I don't think it was a petty thing to do to send me the link. I have FINALLY figured out what the heck is going on, and also gotten in touch with this interesting forum. I've joined, I am here (waves back to killjoy32). I don't know what I can do, but I'm happy to make myself accessible. I don't really have the time or the inclination to visit regularly and scrutinize everything that's going on, but if anyone ants to send me an offline email when something interesting, ghastly or curious occurs I will be more than happy to look in.

Also, despite the cockup on the binding, I still have a fair memory of the 25 years of Chaosium goings on when I was prez over there, and can offer whatever I do recall unless it is about something slanderous, pornographic or threatens honor.


Greg Stafford
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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:14 pm 
 

I'd just like ot ad one more thing.
Xaxaxe wrote:One last thought: if this had been anybody who wasn't an "industry figure," we would have had him on the Shady Dealer and/or Laughable Description threads and we would have been mocking him without mercy.

I'd just like to suggest that before signing ANYONE up to the Shady Dealer and/or Laughable Description threads, that EVERYONE take a moment to give him the same slack that this great big "industry figure" got.
The medium of email is treacherous in large part because of its speed and impersonality. It is WAY easy to make assumptions that may have unnecessary consequences. Get in touch with the others who act like idiots the way I did, and see if they really are such, or just naive, or really are ripoff artists.
Then, if they have been given slack and still hang themselves, string 'em up as they deserve.
But everyone deserves some consideration.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:18 pm 
 

Mars wrote:Yes this is okay according to Ebay.  The only complaint you might get is that $10 is excessive.  You will notice that on the auction page where shipping is listed, the word HANDLING is not mentioned.  It only says SHIPPING COST.  Handling is something that the seller can determine after the auction has finished and then add it in to the additional fees box on the Ebay checkout.

Yes, you CAN do this.
But you can also state it up front, when it's listed (which is what I do.) It's no secret. It appears automatically in the shipping cost when the costs are calculated with their shipping calculator.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:29 pm 
 

I knew it. I just knew I shouldn't be putting 10 times more energy into an auction that didn't even involve me than I do into my own auctions.  :)

Greg, welcome. As stated, I hope you stick around; I'm sure you've got a lot to offer a nostalgia-fueled group such as this one. I'm sure I come across as quite the jackass; you're not the first person to think so, but I hope you'll remember the context. I was offering up honest opinions to a fellow Acaeum member who was new-ish to eBay; it probably doesn't seem like it, but I was trying to help. It doesn't help matters that eight years of eBay selling have made me a more suspicious and cynical person than I used to be; part of me thought Mark was really getting burned.

But, with respect, there is a difference between you coming across this site on your own (a perfectly reasonable assumption) and being pointed here by the very individual who came to us asking for opinions. Only one of those methods leads to others feeling blindsided.

Anyway, I'm in way, way too deep on an auction that never even involved me in the first place, so I'm signing off. Greg, I'm dead-serious when I say that I hope you'll bookmark these forums. I can think of at least 15 members here who are currently drooling and hoping to hear some old late 70s-early 80s "war stories." :)

But I think I've answered my last "opinion needed" thread around here for a while ...

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:37 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:I can think of at least 15 members here who are currently drooling and hoping to hear some old late 70s-early 80s "war stories." :)

Hell, add a zero. That number is probably closer to 150. :)

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:49 pm 
 

Well I only wanted to know about the deal Judges Guild had for Runequest products, so am happy for that little bit o' knowledge I got from Greg.

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:37 pm 
 

Another industry figure on the Acaeum . . . !   Is this the result of some super-double-secret challenge between the Acaeum and Dragonsfoot to see how many famous RPG authors can be "collected"?   :wink:

Once again it's nice to read how gracious the industry figure is.  I hope he posts some interesting stories; I know that some people will be wanting to know print-run counts and edition variations.

So, Greg, I've got a copy of Dreamlands from 1986, product number 2315-X, and I was wondering how rare . . .   :D

  
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