2E with low print run
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:19 am 
 

Hi guys, Matthias site has a bit of info about the AD&D PBM.



ECI were the ones behind the AD&D PBM book - that is, a set of rules for playing AD&D by mail. This 16-page book was approved by TSR and comes with Larry Elmore cover art. The whole series is probably not worth your attention - every gamer I asked about these (and I have seen a few of the books myself) told me they were rather useless.




Apparently from what Matthias is saying, the ECI AD&D PBM was available at stores possibly. Does anyone recall seeing this for sale in stores back in the day???



Seems like this item is pretty obscure as many here have not heard of it. The item is fairly rare as I know of only a few copies. Deaton has a copy, Aaron had one for sale on his site (dunno who bought it), and I have one myself.



Anyone else who has more info, feel free to let the rest of us know.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 3:19 am 
 

Hey guys;



Thought I'd chime in, as I've been buying, selling and trading AD&D online for about ten years, I've come across a few bits of info.  First, scarcity and rarity is not always reflected in price.  There are quite a few items I only run across a couple of times a year that go for nowhere near the price they should on Ebay and other venues.  Like the aforementioned Planescape, a lot of it has to do with the quality and/or usability of the item to a new generation of gamers.  Besides the very obivious examples already mentioned and covered here (Jade Hare, etc), here are a few perhaps not so obvious rarities or maybe future rarities:



Warriors of the Grey Queen:  A second edition Greyhawk adventure that was a seperate insert in I believe Pyramid magazine #50 (please correct me if I'm wrong!) a few years back. You used to see these on Ebay fairly often and they went for $15-$20 or so.  I just checked, and not only are none available on Ebay now but none have sold in the last 30 days there.  Usually thats a pretty good barometer on scarcity, but for all I know a bunch may pop up over the weekend.  Still, I've never seen a copy not in the original magazine as an insert...because of it's size, no outside price, format, I think it's overlooked quite a bit.



Atlas of the Forgotten Realms & Atlas of the Dragonlance World:  I don't know if these officially qualify as 2nd edition, but neither was reprinted and both feature the beautiful Karen Wynn Fonstad maps.  I sell these for $25-$50 each when I get them in, in ANY condition.  They are hard to find in NM or unread condition.



Waterdeep or Krynn Trail Maps: Just almost impossible to find still folded, without pin marks, or in the original folders. I rarely find these in sellable condition. Plus they are really huge, and look impressive on the wall! I do see these on Ebay a lot but mostly they have been folded back into the cardboard holder and have some flaws like creases, tears, holes, etc.



I think more items that came out in 1996, right before TSR went out of business for several months, should be given more attention.  The North boxed set is hard to find and commands high prices, but not many know the Netheril boxed set came out during the same period and is just as hard to find.  It just doesn't seem to get the same kind of attention. The Rod of Seven Parts set (1996), however, seems to pop up pretty often, obviously it had a much higher print run than either of the above items. The Polyhedrons around this time had really, really low print runs, at the time they were almost impossible to find (I didn't get my last few copies in the mail even) and are the hardest to find in the entire run.  I think the RPGA are sold out of these as back issues now.



Ok, so L3 Deep Dwarven Delve is officially a 1st edition adventure. But it was only available in the Silver Anniversary Boxed set released in 1999, which means you had to lay out $50+ to get this ONE item you didn't have in the set (the other items being reprints of older more common D&D modules).  For awhile these were all over the place as people tore apart Silver Anniversary sets to sell these seperately, and many who wanted this one item just bought it off ebay instead of buying the entire Silver Anniversary set....but years later they are getting scarcer to find on Ebay and other outlets.  Speaking of which, how many more years before the boxed set itself complete with all the modules and such climbs in price, since many of these were bought, opened, and the contents sold piecemeal? The box is kind of flimsy, also, and easily gets bent or falls apart.



Neverwinter Nights: The ORIGINAL computer game boxed set, not the 3rd edition version.  I still have mine with the disks, instruction book and Neverwinter Nights travelogue.  How many people actually saved these once the original game went offline?



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Post Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 4:09 am 
 

Hi All,



they did 4 that were in ordinary usage and quite common,

and a set of 6 in a presentation wallet which seem to be a bit scarce.



Cheers,

Malcolm





nev wrote:They made Dragonlance phone cards?!?! :



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3140833542



Nev

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:23 pm 
 

I dont understand Kuo. You dont think the Play By Mail or Gazeteer are 2e or are you smoking something funky these days? :lol:


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:52 pm 
 

I saw some things mentioned which I wanted to clarify or check:



Cernunnos - Regarding Orc's Head Penninsula, I believe I saw that same auction, but it looked to me that he just printed out the pdf and had it bound into a book.  If you have a picture I could compare it.  I doubt that it was ever anything but a pdf, the product was announced and then cancelled almost immediately afterward, and the pdf did not appear for another 6-9 months.



Also, about the Muden domain book, are you sure you are not confusing it with the Hogunmark domain book?  The Hogunmark book was release for RPGA subscribers, but the Muden book was not.  The Muden book was released first as an RTF file and then as a pdf file, could that be the differences you mention?



Lastly, someone else mentioned the Jade Hare as 2E AD&D.  It was released in 1992, but it was released for the 1991 black box D&D set/D&D Rules Cyclopedia book.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:22 am 
 

D'oh, got the 2 mixed up...  yeah, its Hogunmark I was talking about.



Yeah, have to admit, that is probably what that auction was.  I should have at least saved the picture of it.  I forget whether I sent the guy a "is this legit?" email or not, or whether I got a response.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 9:28 am 
 

How long ago was this auction for Orc's Head? If you rememeber the seller or user's ID you might still be able to pull the auction up from feedback linkys if it ain't dead already.



Dave, Are you suggesting this would make Jade Hare a 1e item? Given its release date and logo tags it would sure seem to fit in 2e. I do not have any reliable knowledge of the rule system differences between 1e and 2e as I stopped playing well before 2e came out. So it wouldn't do me any good pulling out my copy to compare.



Later.

Adam


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:40 pm 
 

I think what Dave is saying is that Jade Hare is neither first or second edition because Jade Hare is for the Dungeon and Dragons game system and not part of Advanced Dungeon and Dragons system (either first or second edition).



The Acaeum states that the Jade Hare is "Compatible with the D&D Basic Set." That would put it squarely outside of the realm of first or second edition.



-PD

  


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:06 pm 
 

That auction was probably 1.5-2 years ago.  I DEFINATELY don't remember, and it was before I got hardcore into collecting D&D in general (before it was just Forgotten Realms stuff).

  


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:56 pm 
 

Aha. I suppose that eliminates the Fast Play promo items from the list too. I never understood why there was a perceived need to keep 2 similar yet different rules lines. We always used to hack the hell out of the rules anyhow!



Perhaps is better to refer to this era of TSR instead of just 2e? Or do most guys see AD&D and D&D as distinctively different?



Later.

Adam


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:00 pm 
 

I actually think there is more of a need to look at "TSR era" vs. "WotC era" D&D, especially since D&D, 1st ed. AD&D, and 2nd ed. AD&D all ran at times concurrently.  

Is there any reason that the Acaeum won't go into 2nd edition?  Or is it only a matter of time?

  


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Post Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:04 pm 
 

nev wrote:They made Dragonlance phone cards?!?! :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3140833542

Nev


Yep, British Telecom made them (2 pound value). When  buying the novel Dragons of Summer Flame you would get 2 pounds off. I've bought one on eBay quite a while ago. The offer would expire in june 1998. I'lll scan it later and add it here...

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Post Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 3:36 am 
 

>>>
I'm sure there are 2 or 3 people that were working at/for RPGA at the time that have them
>>>

I can say with authority that this is not the case. The only person who was on the RPGA staff at the time who may have kept a copy of the Adventurer's Guild adventures was Scott Magner (who ran the program), and he is, shall we say, not the most organized guy. I highly doubt that he has a full set. For my part, I came to the RPGA staff about halfway through the Adventurer's Guild program, and managed to snag only the Greyhawk ones, since I didn't really care about any of the others.

If someone managed to pull together a full set of these, I am very impressed.

The second edition items that I've noticed as "in demand" or rare would include "Vecna Lives!", which occasionally fetches outrageous prices and the From the Ashes Boxed set and Carl Sargent Greyhawk sourcebooks (Marklands and Iuz the Evil), which are some of the meatiest and best written Greyhawk resources available.

I think collectors should pay particular attention to the RPGA member's only adventures: Page Not Found

These had _extremely_ low print runs (I'd guess around 10,000 copies), and were sent only to RPGA members. The third edition Member's Only adventure, and the last in the series, is "The Fright at Tristor," a Living Greyhawk adventure edited by yours truly.

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Post Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 4:33 am 
 

Most of the 1995/1996 TSR prints were a low run? Than I figure the list should include the following:

The Complete Barbarian's Handbook (1995)
The Complete Ninja's Handbook (1995)
Forgotten Realms Spellbound Boxed set (1995)
Forgotten Realms Hero's Lorebook (1996)
Forgotten Realms Faiths and Avatars (1995 - shows up quite frequently on eBay)
Ravenloft A guide to Transylvania (1996)
Ravenloft Death Unchained (1996)

And how about this one?

Spelljammer Complete Spacefarer's Handbook (1992)

It's a blue-covered handbook, but for both player and DM alike. I have only seen a few of them on eBay...

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Post Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 9:33 am 
 

Reizla wrote:Most of the 1995/1996 TSR prints were a low run? Than I figure the list should include the following:

The Complete Barbarian's Handbook (1995)
The Complete Ninja's Handbook (1995)
Forgotten Realms Spellbound Boxed set (1995)
Forgotten Realms Hero's Lorebook (1996)
Forgotten Realms Faiths and Avatars (1995 - shows up quite frequently on eBay)
Ravenloft A guide to Transylvania (1996)
Ravenloft Death Unchained (1996)

And how about this one?

Spelljammer Complete Spacefarer's Handbook (1992)

It's a blue-covered handbook, but for both player and DM alike. I have only seen a few of them on eBay...


None of the items listed are particularly hard to find (I just sold two of the Spacefarer's HBs in my ebay store last month, I see them all the time).  For short printed items I would point to those that came out during the turmoil of TSR handing the reigns over to WOTC during the buyout.   Items short printed in this time frame are the Netheril and North boxed sets among others. I don't have a timeline for TSR releases in front of me, but generally anything

Ok, so L3 Deep Dwarven Delve is officially a 1st edition adventure. But it was only available in the Silver Anniversary Boxed set released in 1999, which means you had to lay out $50+ to get this ONE item you didn't have in the set (the other items being reprints of older more common D&D modules). For awhile these were all over the place as people tore apart Silver Anniversary sets to sell these seperately, and many who wanted this one item just bought it off ebay instead of buying the entire Silver Anniversary set....but years later they are getting scarcer to find on Ebay and other outlets. Speaking of which, how many more years before the boxed set itself complete with all the modules and such climbs in price, since many of these were bought, opened, and the contents sold piecemeal? The box is kind of flimsy, also, and easily gets bent or falls apart.


I posted that August 8th of 2003...how precognizant of me was that, eh?  8)

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Post Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 1:41 pm 
 

Cernunnos wrote:The Alternity Fast Play rules were available in Dragon...  I forget what number.

The Alternity Fast Play rules booklets are available free for download at Alternity.net .  There are two booklets, a Player's Book and Game Master's Book.  The contents of each of the booklets is nothing more than a reprinting of chapter 1 from each respective book, with the exception of the character templates.  At least one setting has been created for the fast play rules, a RPG conversion of the TV show Cleopatra 2525.

There are some who swear by the fast play rules over the full rules set, and to some extent I am inclined to agree.  But I also have the PHB, GMG, and Star*Drive setting, so if I want more, I've got it.



  


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Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 1:09 am 
 

I've got no clue why, but the AL-QADIM Monstrous Compendium was tough to find for me.


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Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 4:56 pm 
 

I'm hearing that the Planescape "Faction War" product is fetching upwards of $50 on auction. I suspect fewer than 6,000 copies were printed, as it was one of the last second edition products and the game was _not_ doing well at the time.

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