Old Candidates: Silliest Auction Prices of the Year • Page 19 • Collecting General • The Acaeum

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Old Candidates: Silliest Auction Prices of the Year
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jpipes
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:36 am

i am now fully am aware that having friends and family place bids on items they want being sold in your own auctions is not allowed, that is clear to me now, but having you claim i was somehow doing so using two accounts specifically to rip people off is another issue completely. sorry, but those were real bids, friends or family or not .

if having friends bid on auctions is considered shill bidding, then i guess there is a lot of shill bidding going on here, isn't there? considering how well some people here know each other, how much they communicate, how long they've been friends, etc, if some people here bid on other peoples auctions, guess that is a shill bid too. in my opinion, non-sense. i don't care who it is, if someone places a legit bid with the full intention of purchasing an item won at auction, in my opinion it's legit. i like everyone else have to play by ebays rules though, and now that it's been made clear, so be it.

but that is a far cry from saying uwmpipes and myself are the same person and that i was using that account to FALSELY bid my auctions higher to the infringement of collectors on this forum. i stand by what i said and WILL NOT tolerate others saying otherwise. i will continue to fight this matter here for as long as needed.

jpipes
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:00 pm

btw bclarkie, considering that you are wrong in your accusations i would say that YES you should indeed have contacted me to discuss this matter offline before posting lies about me here and attempting to get my account shut down. doesn't it only make sense to ASK someone before making sudden assumptions about them based only on your own notions?? either way you are incorrrect. your comments and your false claims will not deter me from continuing to post here or from continuing to list sales both here and on ebay, etc.

killjoy32
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:15 pm

jpipes wrote:if having friends bid on auctions is considered shill bidding, then i guess there is a lot of shill bidding going on here, isn't there? considering how well some people here know each other, how much they communicate, how long they've been friends, etc,

i dont think the rules quite word it that way. in all fairness to something being "good form", i think the comment that KOP/badmike came up with, explained the "friends" principle far better than i can. i think that is what ppl are referring to here.

collector "friends" is a totally different concept than actual real life friends. and again, the above explanation covers it perfectly.

in the end, whether you shilled it or not...i dont think you did yourself any favours at all by having someone bid on an item that has almost the same name as you. its just asking for a situation like this dont you think?

you give an opportunity for suspicion and you can bet your bottom dollar someone will bounce on it faster than you can say boo - specially with the folk round here.

anyway....gotta go for a walk and its raining

Are we nearly there yet?

red_bus
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:30 pm

killjoy32 wrote:
anyway....gotta go for a walk and its raining

Al

I know - it is lovely and wet. Just great for my Clematis - which was looking a wee bit sunburnt.

Let's go fly a kite
Up to the highest height!

killjoy32
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:38 pm

red_bus wrote:
killjoy32 wrote:
anyway....gotta go for a walk and its raining

Al

I know - it is lovely and wet. Just great for my Clematis - which was looking a wee bit sunburnt.

well am ready to go now and its now started to absolutely hammer down - totally pointless training in that weather....so will sit and wait for a while and see if it stops enough to go

Are we nearly there yet?

red_bus
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:39 pm

well, time for a cup of tea then.

Let's go fly a kite
Up to the highest height!

FormCritic
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:50 pm

I believe that it is possible to....

a) make an error in judgement....

b) get called on it....

c) acknowledge and stop making the error....

d) have your friends forgive the error and....

e) move on.

Mark

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

jpipes
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Location: San Francisco, CA

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:51 pm

i dont think the rules quite word it that way. in all fairness to something being "good form", i think the comment that KOP/badmike came up with, explained the "friends" principle far better than i can. i think that is what ppl are referring to here.

Hmm... seems like conditional logic, the same kind of logic that got me in trouble in the first place. Honest bids were placed by an honest, unique bidder but because they were "too close" to me, they were considered against the rules of ebay. This is the EXACT statement from ebay rules.

"(shill bidding is) bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller's item information not available to the general Community. Shill Bidding is prohibited on eBay."

By that very definition, it doesn't even mention friends, just people with a level of info not available to the general public. That really suggests people on this forum talking amonst one-another and posting things back and forth and communicating about items on ebay for sale are really against the letter of ebays rules, and therefore shill bids.

Does that make sense in the real world?? No! Neither does getting in trouble for someone placing real bids for real desired purchases regardless of their relation. But rules are rules. I was called on it, so be it, I admited my mistake and error or judgement and it won't occur again. But I stand by my comments 110%, those bids were real bids and not shills. Now according to what I read and posted above though, many people here are technically guilty of the same crime given ebays guidelines. I don't agree, but it's the rules that set the framework as I now so clearly understand.

you give an opportunity for suspicion and you can bet your bottom dollar someone will bounce on it faster than you can say boo - specially with the folk round here.

See, that is the problem. I would have thought "around here" people would be LESS likely to ASSUME someone was a thief/liar/cheat/shill/etc because we are part of a community. I assumed civil discoure would take place first, questions, contact the person in question, etc. I didn't realize people (really one person) would be so quick to jump to incorrect conclusions, make false claims, and attempt to get my account shut down because of them. Pretty sad, actually.

FormCritic
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:57 pm

I think you've explained yourself pretty well, Jason. Your brother bid. You got called on it. Ebay dealt with it. Done.

I don't think you were trying to shill auctions with an Ebay identity so close to your own. I think you would have been more clever. It was an error in judgement. All of us have made them.

Mark

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

jpipes
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:59 pm

MShipley88 wrote:I think you've explained yourself pretty well, Jason. Your brother bid. You got called on it. Ebay dealt with it. Done.

I don't think you were trying to shill auctions with an Ebay identity so close to your own. I think you would have been more clever. It was an error in judgement. All of us have made them.

Mark

Thanks MShipley88, I really appreciate that.

Blackmoor
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:39 pm

jpipes wrote:i am now fully am aware that having friends and family place bids on items they want being sold in your own auctions is not allowed, that is clear to me now, but having you claim i was somehow doing so using two accounts specifically to rip people off is another issue completely. sorry, but those were real bids, friends or family or not .

if having friends bid on auctions is considered shill bidding, then i guess there is a lot of shill bidding going on here, isn't there? considering how well some people here know each other, how much they communicate, how long they've been friends, etc, if some people here bid on other peoples auctions, guess that is a shill bid too. in my opinion, non-sense. i don't care who it is, if someone places a legit bid with the full intention of purchasing an item won at auction, in my opinion it's legit. i like everyone else have to play by ebays rules though, and now that it's been made clear, so be it.

but that is a far cry from saying uwmpipes and myself are the same person and that i was using that account to FALSELY bid my auctions higher to the infringement of collectors on this forum. i stand by what i said and WILL NOT tolerate others saying otherwise. i will continue to fight this matter here for as long as needed.

You know there was a time earlier in Ebay that you were allowed to place a single bid on your own item! I know this sounds strange but it is true! Brian you were around during that time (I know because many years ago I actually purchased stuff from you on Ebay). Why did Ebay allow this you ask? Well in the rules it claimed that if you felt your item was to low you could place a single bid with your own user ID sort of like a last minute Reserve (You still paid the fees). This is true because it happened to me and I did it a few times myself in the early going. Ebay was way smaller back then. You could also leave feedback without even purchasing an item (sounds stupid but it was true).

I am not trying to justify any shilling by anyone, just making people aware of a few old Ebay policies.

Games can get you through times of no money but money can not get you through times of no games!!

killjoy32
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:54 pm

JP: point noted, but listen, my mum and my sister both have accounts on ebay. i could ask them to bid on an item that i am selling. how would it be any different?

i could simply say "hey i didnt tell them to, they did it of their own accord" how would you know? would it be ok in everyone elses eyes?

you see what i mean surely...

not trying to argue or drag this out - this is done and thats that...just trying to make my point thats all chummer

Al

Are we nearly there yet?

ExTSR
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:56 pm

jpipes wrote:That really suggests people on this forum talking amonst one-another and posting things back and forth and communicating about items on ebay for sale are really against the letter of ebays rules, and therefore shill bids.

Feel free to report all of us for exchanging information on a publicly accessible web site, under this spurious theory that such public information is against eBay rules.

In the meantime I utterly reject your premise.

Xaxaxe
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:03 pm

jpipes wrote:"(shill bidding is) bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller's item information not available to the general Community. Shill Bidding is prohibited on eBay."

The Ebay rule only specifically mentions family members, roommates and employees of sellers. It does not include "groups of people who frequent a message board, most of whom live hundreds of miles apart, and, in fact, will never, ever even meet each other."

I don't blame you at all for mounting a vigorous defense, and, in fact, I think you've raised some pretty good points. But to imply that we at The Acaeum are, by definition, part of some sort of casual conspiracy, is a curious form of logic.

jpipes
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:12 pm

It depends on how you read their guidelines. The first line clearly states people with a level of knowledge not available to the general public who places bids on auction items are shill bidding, the next paragraph mentions family members, employees, etc, etc.

Are you suggesting therefore that according to ebays rules that bids placed by friends who are NOT family, NOT roommates, and NOT employees but are otherwise done to increase bids are somehow not shill as well? I would disagree.

Also, re-read my comments, I didn't state everyone on this forum was guilty of shill bidding, I was pretty clear on the circumstances in which that could be true according to their guidelines. I know for a fact that it occurs from time to time here between buyers/sellers and collectors. Of course, that is really besides the point. I wasn't trying to throw the discussion off course, I was simply illustrating a point.

I think I have made my case, I have heard from users via PM on the matter, I feel comfortable that most people understand what occured, it won't happen again, and therefore I rest my case. If I am accused of such actions again or this matter is repeated, I will of course continue to defend myself in full.

Thanks for reading.

Xaxaxe
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:22 pm

Blackmoor wrote:You know there was a time earlier in Ebay that you were allowed to place a single bid on your own item! I know this sounds strange but it is true!

Ah, I remember it well ... along with:

* Being able to leave yourself neutral feedback (most people used this to respond to previous comments);

* The e-mail address of every seller and every bidder listed as plain as could be (this could be chosen as a preference);

* No such thing as My eBay. We all just faked it somehow;

* Having all feedback left by a No Longer A Registered User person turn instantly to neutrals;

* No blue star at 500 feedback. It took 900 more positives to go from yellow to red;

* Being able to leave multiple feedbacks for a single transaction. (you say you're really pissed? Well, just keep leaving those negatives over and over ...);

* PayPal and eBay as mortal enemies;

* PayPal offering a $15 bounty for every person you could get signed up!

* No BINS ... no feedback percentages ... 10-day auctions that cost the same as 7-day auctions ... no TurboLister or other listing tools ... cheesy "new!," sunglasses, and "pic!" icons;

* Which just reminded me: people putting "PIC!" into their auction titles ... because they had somehow figured out how to attach a picture, which was like a 38-step process.

Good times!

bclarkie
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:52 pm

jpipes wrote:btw bclarkie, considering that you are wrong in your accusations i would say that YES you should indeed have contacted me to discuss this matter offline before posting lies about me here and attempting to get my account shut down. doesn't it only make sense to ASK someone before making sudden assumptions about them based only on your own notions?? either way you are incorrrect. your comments and your false claims will not deter me from continuing to post here or from continuing to list sales both here and on ebay, etc.

Alright this is going to be my last word on this and I am done. The fact of the matter is you shilled your auctions, period, End of discussion. There is no lies no decption, those are the facts. As far as whether or not your "brother"(once again assuming that this individual actually exists) was actually bidding to win or just to jack up the price is moot. I also find it rather interesting that when I checked all the auctions that your "brother" was bidding on it seemed that he was only interested in the stuff that you were selling at the time. That to me seems to be rather odd behaivior for someone who was legit. That and the fact that you "brother" doesn't seem to think to much of you because of the items that he did "win" he never bothered to leave you feedback for those transactions. Every shiller always has an excuse for why it all happened and your is no different. The sad part of it all is that I didn't even bother to look at any of your other auctions for other potential shills at the time, but if you really want me to, I'd be happy to look even further into it for you, its what I do. Unless you have more to say on this topic at which point I will happily oblige by looking deeper inot to the bidding activity on your auctions, I consider this case closed.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

jpipes
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:32 pm

Look as deep as you want, there is nothing to find (or for me to hide). I also have no execuses as to anything, feedback, bids, purchases, nothing. Why should I? Things happen as they happen. As for our interests, brothers sometimes tend to think alike.

I'm glad you consider the case closed though, in which case we can move on. I have stated my case. I can see according to ebays guidelines that it was indeed "wrong" and I will abide by that in the future. I can also see how some would question his actions. That's why I've admitted to an error of judgement on that matter, but again, it wasn't shill bidding in an attempt to defraud other collectors. On that matter you are flat wrong.

Case closed.

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