Sellers who infringed upon copyrights; reported. • Page 43 • Collecting General • The Acaeum

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Sellers who infringed upon copyrights; reported.
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mbassoc2003
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:39 am

Deadlord36 wrote:Your point?

The point being that the guy is still full of shit, and is just trying to reinforce the opinion that he is full of shit by opening his mouth to let us see inside.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

bclarkie
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:58 am

gauntner666 wrote:Basically what my copy/paste had to do with was a prior discussion about copyrights, and suing Ebay for damages. I wasn't available for a few days due to a family emergency, and just now got around to posting it, sorry.

Basically it says, Ebay is non-liable for damages as a provider, as long as they complied to any legal written compliant from a copyright holder, and that copyright holder followed the proper legal procedure to do so. In this case WOTC

It also covers that not everything within a document is covered by a copyright. In the U.S you can't copyright the rules to a game.

What was also discussed was suing Ebay for damages, because they believe there collections have been devalued due to copyrighted material being distributed on Ebay.

The Law on this is unless you are the copyright holder, or a licensed vender you have no entitlement for damages.

Also I was wrong. You can't use a trademark name or copyrighted material in distribution of your own product under the Open Game License. But if you don't use the OGL, under Copyright law you can do something similar to the following:

The following adventure is for use with the Dungeons and Dragons game published by Wizards of the Coast.

To get full use of this product you will also need a copy of the Dungeons Masters Guide, Players Handbook, and Monster Manual also published by Wizards of the Coast.

The terms (Dungeons and Dragons, Players Handbook, Dungeons Masters Guide, and Monster Manual) are owned and under license by Wizards of the Coast and are used WITHOUT PERMISION.

Gauntner, I am sorry but did you have any kind of response to the fact that I caught you lying for like the 345th time before about the Zabe CDs that you purchased and said you didn't know anything about ? As a refresher here is my post from June 17th on the auction you won from Zabe on May 27th:

bclarkie wrote:
gauntner666 wrote:bclarkie Not if the material is OGC, read the OGL on wizards page.

And without having an actual copy of the cd, I can't honestly tell you if what's on the cd is legal or not, I was only going by the ad.

I think our new "friend" gaunter666 knows more about our old "friend" Zabe73's CDs than he is letting on. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Gaunter, once again I catch you in a lie:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5200391122

Oh wait, let me guess, this time Zabe forgot to send you the illegal CD. Or wait, did your girlfriend buy this for you too and you didn't know about it. Yea, Yea thats it, it as a birthday present for you and I feckin ruined the surprise for you right. Please, if you are going to steal and then also try to lie about it, you better do a MUCH better job of covering it up. Then again, maybe you should just save yourself from wasting your time altogether here, because it clearly isn't working. Seriously, how many more times are you going to lie? How many more times are you going to steal from WotC? I am so looking forward to all of you getting your asses sued back to the stone age for this. Its coming, believe me its coming...............

And are you to try to get us all to convert to the Wicca religion like you do to your buyers? :roll:

From your feedback:

eBay Feedback Profile for gauntner666

I didn't appreciate the attempt to convert me to the Wicca religion.
Buyer bighappytallboy ( 29) Jun-21-05 04:06 5203549766

Reply by gauntner666: D&D covers many religions, is it to an attempt to covert or just for reference. Jun-21-05 08:35

BTW, looking at your feedback and sales dude you are really kicking some ass. I will bet if you take all that money you are actually profiting from all of your bullshit CDs, you might be able to buy yourself a cup of coffee at McDonalds with it in a month or 2.

Is there a reason why you are still here?

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

rosenkav
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:42 am

Well, at the very least Gauntner doesn't leave retaliatory negatives like some other Ebayers do (hello Jon, and yes, I'm talking about you).

G. , I guess you'd fare a lot better - in this community and in front of your own conscience - without resorting to selling those cheap and unlawful cds.

I mean, do as others do - buy LEGAL stuff, sell it with a markup - it's all so simple.

"It's mint, it's a first print, and it's mine!"

KA-POW

"Not anymore".

deimos3428
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:55 am

gauntner666 wrote:It also covers that not everything within a document is covered by a copyright. In the U.S you can't copyright the rules to a game.

You can't copyright "rules", because rules are conceptual rather than textual. You can copyright text describing said rules.

gauntner666 wrote:The Law on this is unless you are the copyright holder, or a licensed vender you have no entitlement for damages.

Absolutely untrue. Of course you don't have to be a copyright holder to sue for damages. You just have to avoid using sections of copyright law to sue. I assure you that if someone crashes a car into the side of my house, I won't be turning to copyright law to sue them. :wink:

Likewise, if someone devalues my collection by illegally distributing copyrighted material, I likewise would not be using copyright law to sue them.

gauntner666 wrote:Also I was wrong. You can't use a trademark name or copyrighted material in distribution of your own product under the Open Game License. But if you don't use the OGL, under Copyright law you can do something similar to the following:

The following adventure is for use with the Dungeons and Dragons game published by Wizards of the Coast.

To get full use of this product you will also need a copy of the Dungeons Masters Guide, Players Handbook, and Monster Manual also published by Wizards of the Coast.

The terms (Dungeons and Dragons, Players Handbook, Dungeons Masters Guide, and Monster Manual) are owned and under license by Wizards of the Coast and are used WITHOUT PERMISION.

Well, it's good to hear you can admit when you're wrong. Yes, you can absolutely do that, but it doesn't preclude selling illegally copied copyrighted materials alongside said work.

You might want to look over the products on your CDs to ensure that they're all 100% copyright free, and change your advertising to match. I think that's the major issue here.

See, I can be nice sometimes...I didn't once say how it's all a bunch of d20 crap. :)

gauntner666
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:15 pm

gauntner666
The Law on this is unless you are the copyright holder, or a licensed vender you have no entitlement for damages.

deimos3428
Absolutely untrue. Of course you don't have to be a copyright holder to sue for damages. You just have to avoid using sections of copyright law to sue. I assure you that if someone crashes a car into the side of my house, I won't be turning to copyright law to sue them. Wink

gauntner666
You would have to turn to something else, because under copyright you would have no entitlement.

deimos3428
Likewise, if someone devalues my collection by illegally distributing copyrighted material, I likewise would not be using copyright law to sue them.

gauntner666
Yes, in the U.S you can sue anyone for any reason you deem necessary, but weather or not that case will hold merit is a different story.

As for damages, winning damages and collecting damages are two totally different worlds. I have been sued many times and lost, and I have sued many times and won. I have never paid 1 dollar when I lost, and most of the time never received anything when I won.

In 1990 I went to my bank and borrowed $40k for a business investment. The business collapsed and I didn't have any money to pay the bill, I didn't even have enough money to file bankruptcy. Eventually the bank sued me. Yes they won a judgement for 40k, plus legal fees, interest and so on. I never paid anything on this bill. Not because I didn't want to, but because I didn't have the money. They could sue me all they wanted, but you can't get blood from a rock. And now the statue of limitation is up, and Im no longer legally obligated to do anything.

My computer business ran from 1992 to 1999 when I retired. During that time we had several lawsuits from people not paying for services we provided. Yes we won everyone, but as to this day, I have never received a penny. I lost a lot of equipment, and wages were paid out, and so on, on losses that can easily be proven. Under PA law you have to prove that someone can pay a bill, not the other way around. But this in itself can be an expensive endeavor. So what I did was file judgement against these people and put leans against their properties. But all this does is effect their credit, and one-day they will die or sale a property, then I can get paid. But if they don't care about their credit, or they don't own any property, or other leans on the property, it's just a waste of time and money.

3 years ago my neighbor's dog bit me and caused nerve damage to my arm. At first I had no intentions of doing anything. All I wanted was proof if the dog had its shots or not. The neighbor wouldn't provide this information, and was basically a total jerk about the situation. So I sued for the cost of surgery, lost wages, and pain and suffering. The court put this judgement in the form of restitution, so that if the person didn't pay they could be arrested and charged. But you know what I got, a check for $7.00 a month every month for the last 3 years. Hell the medical bills alone were almost 10 grand. Because yes once again I would have to legally prove the person could afford to pay more money. Now that person has recently died, and left nothing of value behind. That's more money I will never see.

You may go to court and the court may say that under such and such law we can award you such and such amount of damages. Or the court may say you have to prove your damages. And I think that's what the court will do. Im not saying that it's not possible, but I don't see how your are going to prove that a PDF file devalues an actual hard copy. In all actuality it could be argued that they increase the value of an original copy. After all why is it that people want the pdf's in the first place? Is it just to save money from buying the original, maybe. Or do they want the Pdf's solely to use within their games, so that they can save ware-and-tare on the original copy. Thus maintaining, and over time increasing it's value.

If you want to sue to prove a point, then by all means go ahead. But if it's for monetary reasons, I think you would be better off buying lottery tickets. In the long run it will probably cost you more money and time, than you will ever get back.

Mortdred
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:42 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... eName=WDVW

Homemade DnD manual? Oh dear...

Winterwords
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:27 pm

Xmas-stuff on ebay uk, selling CD copies of 3E manuals.

eBay listings

Deadlord
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:31 pm

Gauntner, you wouldn't even make a decent waterboy for a debate team.

Uhhh, geee, let's see, how do pdf's devaluate items? Well, uh, gee, I guess because people would rather buy a $2 PDF of a book than buy the original for $10, like we all did. If someone wants a pdf of a book they own, they can make one themselves. So when I go to sell a book that you made a PDF of and are currently selling, I get less for my legal copy.

Just go sell your fucking PDF's and keep your ass shut. No one here wants to hear your inane excuses for screwing us all over. You will continue to be shilled as much as possible, I assure you. Hammerheads like you are the reason I favor the death penalty, unfortunately they do not execute people for first-degree stupidity. I would be willing to bet the dog that bit you owned a copy of the DMG and was pissed at you. Please do the world a favor and do not breed, since that would devolve the entire human race.
Oh wait, no, it wouldn't, since you are just a copy of the real thing and we are originals.

If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

GraysonAC
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:59 am

cap_ap, selling CD's of books.

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ... 2&rd=1

"Please note that these are copies of the official releases of the book, that I have purchased and are subject to Wizard's of the Coast copyright. A bid on this item signifies that this CD is intended to be used only for easy reference to and as a backup of books you have already purchased."

Oh, well that makes violating the copyright A-OK then! :roll:

Kingofpain89
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:12 pm

Winterwords wrote:Xmas-stuff on ebay uk, selling CD copies of 3E manuals.

eBay listings

I've seen some pretty nasty feedback in my time but this guy is a real gem. He calls people "prick" and "idiot" in every neg he leaves. This guy must have been gang-raped in prison or something equally awful to have such a bad disposition. The stuff he spews out of his cakehole kinds reminds me of the crap that maxwell used to vomit forth when he was on one of his rants. Sounds like he needs to have his ass kicked something fierce.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:31 pm

GraysonAC wrote:cap_ap, selling CD's of books.

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ... 2&rd=1

"Please note that these are copies of the official releases of the book, that I have purchased and are subject to Wizard's of the Coast copyright. A bid on this item signifies that this CD is intended to be used only for easy reference to and as a backup of books you have already purchased."

Oh, well that makes violating the copyright A-OK then!

Now that is a difficult one. You are permitted under UK law to keep a copy of a book that you own, either as a photocopy or in digital form.

You are also permitted to supply copies for that purpose, and you can charge a fee for the service of supplying a copy.

What you are not permitted to do is supply copies to people who have no right to a copy, and the onus is on the supplier to ensure that the recipient has an original copy of the book.

I don't know about US law, but under UK law the supply of copies is permitted. This is a much more grey area.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

Deadlord
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:00 pm

Nothing gray about it. If you sell a gun, YOU are responsible for making sure the byer has a license, not the buyer. Same thing.

If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

GraysonAC
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:09 pm

I think what he meant was that the auction would be legal, by UK laws, as long as he makes sure the buyer has an actual copy of every book on the CD.

Which, I'm obviously positive the seller is doing..

:roll:

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:52 am

GraysonAC wrote:I think what he meant was that the auction would be legal, by UK laws, as long as he makes sure the buyer has an actual copy of every book on the CD.

Which, I'm obviously positive the seller is doing..

I am in no doubt that EVERY person selling PDF files on eBay is doing so illegally. I have no problem with it, I'm just sick of them cropping up in my searches.

Like most buyers, I would prefer to spend $50 on an original than buy the PDF. I tend to avoid 3E anyway, but I don't think the availability of all the JG PDFs affected my intent to spend hundreds of bucks buying my collection.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

killjoy32
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:23 am

mbassoc2003 wrote:
Like most buyers, I would prefer to spend $50 on an original than buy the PDF. I tend to aboud 3E anyway, but I don't think the availability of all the JG PDFs affected my intent to spens hundreds of bucks buying my collection.

well i think anyone who would choose to go get a PDF over the opportunity of having an item thats what 20-30 years old, is absolutely insane.

Al

Are we nearly there yet?

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:51 am

PDFs have their place. There's no way I'm gonna go paging through my JG collection when I've digitised it all. But there's no way you can play with the digital copies either. Even if you print them out.

I can see there are guys who buy CDs full of PDFs on eBay, but at the end of the day, if your a DM, you need the books, and if you're a player, you're not gonna be turning up at the table with your laptop.

I cannot condone PDFs because I collect them. But I wouldn't buy them. There's no guarantee of quality. That's why I make my own.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

GraysonAC
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:17 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:PDFs have their place. There's no way I'm gonna go paging through my JG collection when I've digitised it all. But there's no way you can play with the digital copies either. Even if you print them out.

I can see there are guys who buy CDs full of PDFs on eBay, but at the end of the day, if your a DM, you need the books, and if you're a player, you're not gonna be turning up at the table with your laptop.

I cannot condone PDFs because I collect them. But I wouldn't buy them. There's no guarantee of quality. That's why I make my own.

One of the guys I play with has most of the books on PDF - he just carts around his laptop to games, and he can find stuff relatively quickly. I've got PDFs of the books I own on this computer as well, so that I can quickly find stuff that might be hard to find in the books.

Still, a laptop is no substitute for a bookshelf

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:55 am

GraysonAC wrote:One of the guys I play with has most of the books on PDF - he just carts around his laptop to games, and he can find stuff relatively quickly. I've got PDFs of the books I own on this computer as well, so that I can quickly find stuff that might be hard to find in the books.

Still, a laptop is no substitute for a bookshelf

For those of us who played RPGs before home computers were available, there's something very nostalgic and theraputic about thumbing through hardback manuals, or relaxing and reading a copy of Dragon. You justs can't replace that with a 2lbs gadget.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

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