Sellers who infringed upon copyrights; reported.
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:03 am 
 

It seems that eBay has reverted to requiring a credit card to register.


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:31 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
afoolandhis$ wrote: Clarkie,
Just got off the phone with Hillary Ross (or Roth?) at WoTC's Legal dept. and reported this f*ckface. She took down the ebay id and auction number, but wouldn't tell me what they do after they get that info. Anyway, I thought it would be more useful to call them than to contact ebay, but without knowing what WoTC will do it's hard to tell.

You can get to their legal dept. by calling (425) 226-6500. Let's go after these assholes!


eBay listings

Good ole Zabe73 has now worked his way into 1st edition stuff with his Bull Shit CDs. Someone seriously needs to call WotC tomorrow afternoon. I would call, but I can't while I am at work. Someone please do us all a favor and call them.

Anybody happen to Call WotC on this?


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:49 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:


Funny you should list that. I just finished up reporting that one. :wink:


As did I. Here is the idiot's response to the e-mail I sent him ... for extra fun, count the number of things that are wrong or misguided:

"The Majority of this stuff came from Wizards. I'm just reselling it and saving someone the time and effort from downloading it free from them. Other things here are created by players and also freely distributed. thank you."

This guy is SO stupid ... he's lucky breathing is a reflex action.

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Post Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:28 pm 
 

But wait! There's more! Here's the same guy, making great use some really twisted logic (not to mention having a Strange sense of What to Capitalize):

"I apologize if you misunderstand what I'm offering in my auction, but am I not within my right to resell something for which I've paid for, just as Most Everything on ebay is a resell item. as for profit, I really don't think that someone paid the thousands of dollars for a 1st Edition book here or a limited edition statue there that they sold them for. Please don't jump to conclusions about things if you do not know the facts. Thank you."

Seriously, anyone with an extra five minutes at lunch-break today needs to report this guy. Selling SEVENTY D&D e-books is just offensive.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=44114

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Post Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:56 pm 
 

eBay will neither investigate nor prevent a seller selling copyrighted materials on their website without a complaint from the copyright holder.

The only person who can do anything about this is WoTC.

All we can do is gripe about it and feel pissed off. That seems pretty pointless to me.

eBay have put measures in place to prevent the creation of accounts to neg' these people.

From experience, and from review of the boards threads, people have been complaining about these activities for years, with no real success.

We can continue to give lip service to this, but in reality you are complaining about a company that makes millions of dollars a year of which a tiny percentage is profit comes from fraudulent activity, and a games company who makes millions of dollars a year; neither of which have any real interest in protecting the copyright of the material.

If neither the seller, the selling agent, nor the copyright owner are fussed about this, who are we to complain? Everyone is happy and it's nothing to do with us.

Why not join them, grab a piece of the action and take some of the seller's profit?


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:09 pm 
 

All right, I have declared war on eBay.
I talked to Hilary, and they are going to put my proposal up in a general meeting at the legal department. I'll be talking to the copyright lawyer tomorrow, he was tied up when I called. All I need from WotC is a draft/letter saying that they do indeed want to prevent copyright infringement of their products, and she said she was pretty sure it would be approved, since I am doing all the leg work. She seemed pretty surprised that I was going to do it. I do believe the idea of suing eBay never occurred to them. You would think their legal team would have done it long ago, just for the publicity.
Could someone be so kind as to get copies of as many auction pages as possible, and e-mail them to me? I'm crushed for time lately. Anyone who contributes will at the very least probably get their name in lights, as I am pretty sure the suit will get decent media attention. I plan on alerting as many media outlets as I can about it.
The suit will basically consist of forcing eBay to take drastic measures to prevent and prosecute infringers. Once it starts, legal costs will be included in the suit. Should be interesting. I don't think anyone has tried to sue eBay in this method before, and with WotC as the backer, they had best take it very seriously.
Bass, it has EVERYTHING to do with us. Every asshole who sells a PDF of the DM's guide devaluates mine and everyone else's copies. It really doesn't matter if it is a negligible reduction, the point is that if it persists, hard copies will eventually become heavily devaluated. The RIAA didn't take immediate action against Napster, and what was the result? Hundreds of file-sharing services, lawsuits and court challenges that take years, and in the meantime, no one buys CD's anymore, since they can download and burn whatever they like. Why should someone pay $10 for a DMG when they can print it out for the cost of a ream of paper?


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:34 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:All right, I have declared war on eBay.
I talked to Hilary, and they are going to put my proposal up in a general meeting at the legal department. I'll be talking to the copyright lawyer tomorrow, he was tied up when I called. All I need from WotC is a draft/letter saying that they do indeed want to prevent copyright infringement of their products, and she said she was pretty sure it would be approved, since I am doing all the leg work. She seemed pretty surprised that I was going to do it. I do believe the idea of suing eBay never occurred to them. You would think their legal team would have done it long ago, just for the publicity.
Could someone be so kind as to get copies of as many auction pages as possible, and e-mail them to me? I'm crushed for time lately. Anyone who contributes will at the very least probably get their name in lights, as I am pretty sure the suit will get decent media attention. I plan on alerting as many media outlets as I can about it.
The suit will basically consist of forcing eBay to take drastic measures to prevent and prosecute infringers. Once it starts, legal costs will be included in the suit. Should be interesting. I don't think anyone has tried to sue eBay in this method before, and with WotC as the backer, they had best take it very seriously.
Bass, it has EVERYTHING to do with us. Every asshole who sells a PDF of the DM's guide devaluates mine and everyone else's copies. It really doesn't matter if it is a negligible reduction, the point is that if it persists, hard copies will eventually become heavily devaluated. The RIAA didn't take immediate action against Napster, and what was the result? Hundreds of file-sharing services, lawsuits and court challenges that take years, and in the meantime, no one buys CD's anymore, since they can download and burn whatever they like. Why should someone pay $10 for a DMG when they can print it out for the cost of a ream of paper?


Well Frank, you wanted it, you got it. I hope you have a Cable modem or DSL because I just emailed you about 200 to 300 links. They are broken down by sellers ID with all the auctions I could find listed both past and present. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: BTW, I included every single one of Zabe73's current and past auctions that I could find. He is personally responsible for at least 125 Illegal auctions all by himself over the last 30 days. :evil:


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:41 pm 
 

Tx, Clarkster. I'll get them into a folder.
If anyone else has links or info, please let me know.
In addition to infringement, I'm going to look into suing them for allowing fraudulent sellers to continue selling. Any info or personal experiences would help.
I am not going to include the Acaeum in any legal references, BTW. It really has no part in this, and I think it would be unfair to draw any attention to it under these circumstances.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:15 am 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:Tx, Clarkster. I'll get them into a folder.

If anyone else has links or info, please let me know.

In addition to infringement, I'm going to look into suing them for allowing fraudulent sellers to continue selling. Any info or personal experiences would help.

I am not going to include the Acaeum in any legal references, BTW. It really has no part in this, and I think it would be unfair to draw any attention to it under these circumstances.




Hey guy, I am actually a soon to be third year law student in TX and would not mind assisting you on this project.  It would be practical experience, and if I do say so myself, great fun!  :twisted:  :twisted:



Let me know if you need/would like any help.  I'm here.



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Post Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:27 am 
 

Is there a way you could look up what lawsuits have been brought against them in the past?


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:29 am 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:Tx, Clarkster. I'll get them into a folder.
If anyone else has links or info, please let me know.
In addition to infringement, I'm going to look into suing them for allowing fraudulent sellers to continue selling. Any info or personal experiences would help.

I don't know a darn thing about law (especially U.S. law), but from what I understand from various tv shows, you have to sue for damages.  The only real damages I can see is the aforementioned devaluation of your existing collection pieces.  Which means you might get a bit of cash out of it in some kind of class-action suit.  Unfortunately, eBay is large enough that even if you win, they'll just pay up and keep status quo...

If WotC is interested in pursuing this, they can hurt eBay a lot more as a copyright holder.  Their damages are much more severe (read expensive).  WotC's involvement/support definitely adds value to the case, and brings media attention.  It was my understanding that Hasbro owns WotC, if that's the case I'm sure they would want to maintain their copyright.

Now back to Matlock...

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:19 am 
 

Well, you can also sue for punitive damages against Ebay as they have been turning a blind eye to illegal activity for a very long time.  Actual damages usually don't come anywhere close to matching the punitive damages assesed in most cases if the party being sued is found to be liable. :twisted:


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:04 am 
 

I don't need a payout for myself, I just want it stopped. They should be in touch sometime today.


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:00 am 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:Is there a way you could look up what lawsuits have been brought against them in the past?


Sure, I have active Westlaw and LexisNexis accounts, and would not mind spending a little while looking up ebay's legal past.  Give me some contact information and I'll forward you anything relevant that I find.

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:38 am 
 

You have to look at what the current laws are in such matters.  Ebay has strict policies in such matters of copyright infringement, counterfeit items, and stolen property.  Violating these policies will get you suspended or permanataly removed from Ebay.  Because of these policies and Ebay inforcing them, Ebay is removed from any liable.

The reason a lot of people think their complaints about copyright infringement on Ebay have gone unheard and that you think Ebay does nothing, is because you haven't followed the proper legal channels governing the matter.  Ebay is not legally responsible to do anything from an end users compliant, and in many cases would be foolish to do so, nor are they legally responsible to inform you of proper legal procedure.  What you have to do is complain to the copyright holder, in this case WOTC.  At which time WOTC has to inform Ebay that the product is being sold without permission, and SIGN AN AFFIDAVID STATING SO.  At this time Ebay is then legally responsible to remove the auction, and at their discretion the person that posted it.  And because of the ones that have properly followed legal procedure many upon many of auctions have been closed, and many of users suspended and permanently banned

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:51 am 
 

I keep seeing a lot of complaints about zabe73's Cd.  The following is a copy of his ad.

I am also adding to the auction a CDROM FULL of tons of D&D material! Included are printable character sheets for Paladins, Rogues, Wizards, Clerics, Bards, Barbarians, Fighters, Oriental Adventures, Eberron, chaos mage, Psion, Psychic Warriors, Sorcerers, creature player-characters, 3.5 characters, and MORE! Also in the CD are special character sheets, from quick and generic to ultra detailed, from black and white to color! Also included are SPELL sheets for all classes. Included is a DIGITAL character sheet to keep track on your computer your PC's progress. On the CD you will find 2 types of critical hit charts; no more boring double damage or triple damage on a critical hit, now on a successful critical your PC's will be chopping off limbs, breaking ribs and poking out eyes! Along with the critical hit charts you will get 2 fumble charts to balance out those criticals. Fumbles include tripping and falling to the dreaded "critical hit friend"! Almost every feat from the entire D&D 3 edition and 3.5 books are on the CD (Oriental Adventures, Players Handbook, Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, Song and Silence, Defenders of the faith, Tome and Blood, Savage Species and MORE). Also I am throwing in a combat reference sheet for the Dungeon Masters out there to keep track of all the action. Also quick reference sheets for Players rules, magic rules and a reference sheet for a campaign use. All the useful charts available for quick reference without having waste time searching through a stack of books!

I've read over this ad a few times and I don't see anything within it that violates WOTC copyright. I know the first thing someone is going to jump on me about is this:

Almost every feat from the entire D&D 3 edition and 3.5 books are on the CD (Oriental Adventures, Players Handbook, Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, Song and Silence, Defenders of the faith, Tome and Blood, Savage Species and MORE).

What a lot of people don't know about or understand is that a lot of WOTC material is OGC, that is Open game content. And Under the OGL, Open Game License your are free to distribute, modify and include within your own works for sale and or distribution.

A lot of the feats in the above books are OGC material.  In his ad he says "Almost every Feat" NOT every feat.  This leads me to believe that only the OGC material is on the disk, otherwise you might as well include it all.

Just going by the ad, and not physically analyzing the CD for what is and isn't OGC, you can't honestly say this violates anyone's copyright.  Of course you're free to assume anything you wish.  This is probably why a wizard hasn't done anything with this compliant.  Without further investigation there is no compliant.

For more information on OGC and OGL go to wizards.com

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:18 am 
 

gauntner666 wrote:I keep seeing a lot of complaints about zabe73's Cd. The following is a copy of his ad.

I am also adding to the auction a CDROM FULL of tons of D&D material! Included are printable character sheets for Paladins, Rogues, Wizards, Clerics, Bards, Barbarians, Fighters, Oriental Adventures, Eberron, chaos mage, Psion, Psychic Warriors, Sorcerers, creature player-characters, 3.5 characters, and MORE! Also in the CD are special character sheets, from quick and generic to ultra detailed, from black and white to color! Also included are SPELL sheets for all classes. Included is a DIGITAL character sheet to keep track on your computer your PC's progress. On the CD you will find 2 types of critical hit charts; no more boring double damage or triple damage on a critical hit, now on a successful critical your PC's will be chopping off limbs, breaking ribs and poking out eyes! Along with the critical hit charts you will get 2 fumble charts to balance out those criticals. Fumbles include tripping and falling to the dreaded "critical hit friend"! Almost every feat from the entire D&D 3 edition and 3.5 books are on the CD (Oriental Adventures, Players Handbook, Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, Song and Silence, Defenders of the faith, Tome and Blood, Savage Species and MORE). Also I am throwing in a combat reference sheet for the Dungeon Masters out there to keep track of all the action. Also quick reference sheets for Players rules, magic rules and a reference sheet for a campaign use. All the useful charts available for quick reference without having waste time searching through a stack of books!

I've read over this ad a few times and I don't see anything within it that violates WOTC copyright. I know the first thing someone is going to jump on me about is this:

Almost every feat from the entire D&D 3 edition and 3.5 books are on the CD (Oriental Adventures, Players Handbook, Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, Song and Silence, Defenders of the faith, Tome and Blood, Savage Species and MORE).

What a lot of people don't know about or understand is that a lot of WOTC material is OGC, that is Open game content. And Under the OGL, Open Game License your are free to distribute, modify and include within your own works for sale and or distribution.

A lot of the feats in the above books are OGC material. In his ad he says "Almost every Feat" NOT every feat. This leads me to believe that only the OGC material is on the disk, otherwise you might as well include it all.

Just going by the ad, and not physically analyzing the CD for what is and isn't OGC, you can't honestly say this violates anyone's copyright. Of course you're free to assume anything you wish. This is probably why a wizard hasn't done anything with this compliant. Without further investigation there is no compliant.

For more information on OGC and OGL go to wizards.com


Hey Genius, you obviously haven't been looking very hard:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 31422&rd=1

In this auction description (and many other at that) listing it lists this:
Zabe73 the copyright and trademark thief wrote: I am also adding to the auction a CDROM FULL of tons of 2nd Edition AD&D material! Including: Over 100 new spells for Magic Users and Priests to draw from. On the CD you will find a critical hit chart; no more boring double damage or triple damage on a critical hit, now on a successful critical your PC's will be chopping off limbs, breaking ribs and poking out eyes! Along with the critical hit charts you will get a fumble chart to balance out those criticals. Fumbles include tripping and falling to the dreaded "critical hit friend"!

There are several different types of character sheets to choose from on the CD, all are printable. There are simple sheets and an ultra detailed 6-page sheet. There is also a player's option character sheet. You will find TONS of magic items described inside the CD. Many Forgotten Realms and other campaign settings books, modules and articles are included in the CD. Including: City of Ravens Bluffs, Calimport, Castle Suplzeer, Maztica, FMA1, Fires of Zatal, FMA2, Endless Armies, FMQ1, City of Gold, OA5, Mad Monkey vs. the Dragon Claws, OA6, Ronin Challenge, OA7, Test of the Samurai, Dungeon Crawl: Undermountain--The Lost Level, Dungeon Crawl: Undermountain--Maddgoth's Castle, Dungeon Crawl: Undermountain--Stardock, Villain's Lorebook, Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, Volo's Guide to the Dalelands, Volo's Guide to the North, The Fall of Myth Drannor, Gnomes-100 Dragons-0, Four From Cormyr, several Treasure Maps and about 15 or so other AD&D materials! Also included is a conversion manual for converting your 2nd edition characters to the new 3.0 rules. Have you ever thought of updating? Well with the conversion manual the characters you have loved to play with for years can now face the NEW challenge of 3.0 rules! Finally, on the CD is a dice rolling program. Type in any number of dice you want and any type of dice you want to roll and it will figure it all out for you INSTANTLY! This is a pretty cool program, and handy if you ever need to roll 20D4, how about 20D3?


That is about as blatant as any copyright theft as I have ever seen. Secondly there is another going on that hasn't even been discussed which is Trademark theft. It is illegal to produce anything on your own using names specifically created for use by WotC. WotC does have an open gaming licence, but according to their terms of use you can not create and sell things using trademarks like Drizzt, Oriental Adventures, Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, Song and Silence, Defenders of the faith, Tome and Blood, and Savage Species.


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:00 am 
 

gauntner666

gauntner666 wrote:I've read over this ad a few times and I don't see anything within it that violates WOTC copyright.

I am honestly staggered at how ignorant you really are. Have you considered running for government?


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:08 am 
 

Whoa guys!  Gartner may misinformed but you don't need to slap the man down for simply voicing concerns.  Simply point out the error (as bclarkie so eloquently did) and go on.  I swear, someone violates copyright laws and infringes trademarks and you guys go nuts! :wink:   I mean really, next thing you know you guys'll be going after thieves.  Woops, too late JonB!

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:25 am 
 

yaya wrote:Whoa guys! Gartner may misinformed but you don't need to slap the man down for simply voicing concerns. Simply point out the error (as bclarkie so eloquently did) and go on. I swear, someone violates copyright laws and infringes trademarks and you guys go nuts! :wink:  I mean really, next thing you know you guys'll be going after thieves. Woops, too late JonB!


I guess it just sometimes touches a nerve? something that is dear to you....it just really P's you off when ppl do things like that.

It is a valid point tho, that ppl will try and justify their actions and give sensible reasons for it that have absolutely no validity at all, except to them.

Fact of the matter is, Zabe73 IS well out of order, nuff said. The guy has had multiple warnings before and obviously didnt learn, so frankly, he deserves everything that will potentially be dished out to him.

Can't expect ppl to just agree that he has the right to do it, can you?
:? (or view the matter with indifference)

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