SimperingToad wrote:I would also put the call out for a red 5th in addition. How does it mesh with the others? I'll see what I can do for scans.

I agree to put the call out, but I'm somewhat convinced that bit is completely in error.  I do not think a red 5th exists, as nobody to date has produced one and those that thought they had one turned out to have standard 4ths on further inspection.

Though I've been wrong before, and undoubtedly will be again.  The rest makes a good deal of sense.

SimperingToad wrote:Lastly, the back page of the product list. Again, very hard to see, so I indicated where the prices are on the 4th Red. You can see where they are missing on the white 4th.
[ Image ]

I am having trouble loading the images for some reason, but this is the primary point of interest in that it differs from both the fourth and the fifth...will check back in a bit.

Ok, I see 'em now.  The only remaining question I have at this point is:  Are all "4th whites" like this, or is your copy another previously-unknown variant?

TheMilford wrote:Another feature that might be interesting to note is which printing(s) still have the sewn in bindings and which have the glued bindings.

I remember Gary Gygax talking about this change and how the Blume's wanted to save money by eliminating the more expensive sewn bindings among other things.

This could also possibly point out a change in printing houses.

Yup.

TheMilford wrote:Another feature that might be interesting to note is which printing(s) still have the sewn in bindings and which have the glued bindings.

I remember Gary Gygax talking about this change and how the Blume's wanted to save money by eliminating the more expensive sewn bindings among other things.

This could also possibly point out a change in printing houses.

Hmm.  That certainly could be the case, but I am not completely convinced yet -- and I'll tell ya why.

The time of the stitched/glued change is not yet correlated to the Random House change for the PHB or DMG.  I think that's a great thing to sort out; and if correct we may even divine more precisely when the switch occurs.

These old threads give some interesting clues, but we don't have a complete set of data compiled yet as far as I know.  Help me fill in the blanks, folks!

viewtopic.php?p=71744&highlight=random+house#71744
viewtopic.php?p=118180&highlight=random+house#118180

DMG: stitched=4th and lower, glued=9th and higher, RH=7th and higher*
PHB: stitched=3rd and lower, glued=??, RH=7th and higher*
MM**: stitched=4th and lower, glued=6th and higher, RH=5th and higher*

*The printings I have listed are not always "inclusive", but I'm working with what's recorded in the threads.  If you know of a lower/higher printing that will move the boundaries, speak up!

**Strangely enough, we don't seem to discuss the stitching with respect to MM printings in any threads I could dig up, probably because there were enough other distinguishing features not to bother...will check stuff tonight.

Not necessarily. The white 4th may have been an original 5th, then part of the way through, the binding was changed along with the banner and product list. This could possibly be the change in printer.

Did Random House do the actual printing? Or, were they merely the distributor?

PHBs

7th top
3rd bottom.

The 7th has "stitching" but not the kind of heavy stitching I assume we are talking about here.

Do we need to make a more clear distinction?

TheMilford wrote:[ Image ]
7th top
3rd bottom.

The 7th has "stiching" but not the kind of heavy stitching I assume we are talking about here.

Do we need to make a more clear distinction?

None of my three have the red/yellow stitching shown on the bottom. My 3rd print does. So this difference appears to have happened between the 3rd and 4th prints.

sorry to arrive really late on this, but I have just received a 4th print MM with white pages.

I'll check it shortly and see if it has the prices listed as per the 4th white here.

I wondered if there was a European and USA print?