deimos3428 wrote:Fixed the chart with additions, corrected the front cover section of the 5th which had horrible cut-and-paste errors, removed flyleaf weight as too difficult to measure with accuracy.I think we've got it all now. I'd be interested in hearing where people think the line ought to be drawn. Personally, at this point I'm thinking the 4th Beta is more similar to the 4th Alpha than the 5th, so that one's not difficult for me. But while the 4th Gamma is more similar to a 5th than the 4th Alpha, and that's where I'd divide them "by the numbers" -- the cover and catalog pages are more compelling features. I'm on the fence.
The Collector's Trove wrote:Howdy All,Looking through my MM's I have two that are very similar to a 4th Gamma but both have red endpapers and fly leaves and slightly different stitches. Here are their traits:4th ?Front Cover: Yellow-banner reads "ADVANCED D&D" and black outlined letters; Wizard logo; smooth textured*Flyleafs: RedPages: smooth*Stitching: 3/4" to 7/8"; 15 stitchesRear Cover: ISBNSpine: New spineCopyright Page: "TM"; "4th Edition, August, 1979"; Jean Wells credit; "Distributed to the book trade in the United States by Random House.."; center justified "Inquiries..." lines; ISBN;Giants: 19-25Hydra: Smaller raised illustrationVampire: "per round of immersion"Page 111: No prices; DMG not listed as "Future Release"Page 112: No prices; No prices next to STAR PROBE; No prices next to STAR EMPIRES; "send for our catalog."; "potpourri" Gencon adFutures Bright,Paul
deimos3428 wrote:Well, that's...interesting. Without any good reason not to, I'd have to put that between the "4th Beta" and "4th Gamma" based on the flyleaf alone. It does re-open the question of where to draw the line between 4th/5th -- not that we managed to close it yet. If we're drawing it at "Random House", this is an early red 5th. If we're drawing it at flyleaf color, it's a late 4th. If we're drawing it at cover TM, it's also a 4th. Etc. For now, I'll shift everybody down by one. This is the 4th Gamma, the previous is now a 4th Delta.Still no "4th minus" though...
misterspock wrote:Maybe I'm just getting confused, but doesn't this match the 4th Beta in my photos and not a different print?
This is a strange hybrid print. The cover is identical to the Fourth Alpha print, but the spine and the interior are identical to the Third Alpha print"Advanced D&D" in an angled yellow banner, top left corner; Spine:"Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" in red letteringStates "Gary Gygax"
The Collector's Trove wrote in MM - 4th printing found with red end papers (news to grodog):I believe there is a 4th print just prior to the one listed as a 4th print on the Acaeum. This 4th "minus" print should have the errata for the vampire included and the prices listed in the back catalog. I have seen a number of 4th prints and the answers always come back "has errata" and "does not have prices".The 2nd Alpha DMG I own has the pages from the MM which include the errata for the vampire included and the prices listed in the back catalog.
FoulFoot wrote in Help identifying Monster Manual:I think there's one or two emails in the archives on the MM. Paul never did a flowchart on the MM, just the DMG.I'll adjust the info re: the spines on the 3rd/4th print. What needs to change for the 5th print?Foul