"Auction History & Commentary" Section
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:55 pm 
 

  If the prices cannot be updated regularly (say, every 2-3 years) why not have something along the lines of "Current sales" section in the Stickys that would track sales on at the very least the Rares during the last, say, six months or so. Since the Rare items come up for auction/sale most infrequently of any of the sections, this would seem to be the easiest to update in this way. Plus I think this is the area of the most interest for most of us posting on these pages. At this point, other than Ebay, Gencon and documented private sales, is there even any other venue of sales that needs to be covered in these prices? It should be easy enough to track, say, all the Rahasia or RPGA1's sold within a six month period. No need for averaging of prices, just a listing of what the items currently sold for on Ebay or other documented venues. Perhaps a Sticky in the General Section named something like "Current Rare Prices" that could be edited/updated every month or so. I for one would love one dedicated format to seeing the selling prices of Rares accurately recorded for my own reference and for research purposes.

Mike B.


I edited my post and title of the section to make more sense from my poorly worded initial inquiry.....

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:14 pm 
 

There is no "Estimated Values" page.  I don't have any clear idea what you're talking about.

There used to be an "Estimated Values" section on each individual item page, but I renamed that over a year ago to "Auction History and Commentary".  If that's the section you're talking about, it does not serve to be an estimate of values.  It's simply an area that I record auction sales from time to time, primarily for rare items.  While I have more sales recorded there on my master server copy, the current published site hasn't been updated since last summer.  While I've been slacking off recently, it does have a pretty accurate record of most class "5", and many class "4", sales in the last five years.

If you're talking about the Index pages, you must be inferring that the date in the "Updated" column refers to when the Estimated Values were updated.  It does not.  I've said it about fifteen times, and there's also an entry to that effect in both the site FAQ and the site instructions.  The date in the "Updated" column refers to when information on that item's individual page was last updated.  The Estimated Values are being tracked and compiled by the Valuation Board (currently all class 4 and 5's, as well as a smattering of other items), and those values are updated every time the site is.

In the next site update, the "Updated" column will be moved next to the item "Title" column to help alleviate such confusion.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:16 pm 
 

have to agree with mike. i like to refer to the values as often as i can and i know more and more ppl are coming to here and referring to the as well. if this is kinda meant to be the "flagship" of the collecting community so to speak, then i think more accurate and uptodate values are essential too.

i am currently working on JG ones, which i will pass to shane when i have enough suitable info, but cant help with the rest.

Al

**edit**

i see scott has answered already, so just ignore me :)



  

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:40 pm 
 

FoulFoot wrote:There is no "Estimated Values" page. I don't have any clear idea what you're talking about.

There used to be an "Estimated Values" section on each individual item page, but I renamed that over a year ago to "Auction History and Commentary". If that's the section you're talking about, it does not serve to be an estimate of values. It's simply an area that I record auction sales from time to time, primarily for rare items. While I have more sales recorded there on my master server copy, the current published site hasn't been updated since last summer. While I've been slacking off recently, it does have a pretty accurate record of most class "5", and many class "4", sales in the last five years.

Foul


    Sorry about that, I MEANT to say the Auction History and Commentary, my bad  :oops: Good lord what a gaff on my part!
    The Auction history is woefully out of date on almost every single item. most have not been updated in 2 years or more, and this includes class 5 and 4 sales (off the top of my head, copies of B3 orange, ST1, Woodgrain boxes, RPGA modules, etc have been sold on Ebay in the last two years yet the site has not updated that fact). Plus, and this may be controversial, but I think that documented private sales should at least be discussed being included.  For example, I have sold a Excellent condition Jade Hare for $250 this year to a fellow Acaeum member, that strikes me as a pretty legit idea of what the item is worth to a collector in terms of value.  I know the private sale concept might tread on shaky ground (unlike Ebay, there is no paper trail) but I think in most cases these might be of interest if the item was rare enough. Maybe both parties could confirm the sale. Of course even this might not be on firm ground.  I don't know, I just think there has to be a way to consider these. I mean, if the only sale of a ST1 one year is a private sale for $2000 between two established collectors, I defintiely would be interested in knowing this whether it was "official" or not.  
     
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:20 pm 
 

I agree that some updates would be very appreciated.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:31 pm 
 

You misunderstand.  The sales recorded in the "Auction History & Commentary" section are just provided as a reference.  I debated deleting the section altogether, but decided it couldn't hurt to leave it.  There certainly are missing sales on there (though again, I have many of the sales from the past six months recorded on the master, they just aren't published yet).

The sales recorded in that section have *no bearing* on what the Valuation Board is doing.  I am not part of the Board, and they don't get any sales data from me whatsoever.  They collect values from eBay (and some private sales that they are aware of) themselves, and arrive at the Estimated Values themselves.  I doubt there is any class-5 or class-4 sales that they have missed in the past year.  Their inventory of sales (and item gradings) are not available to the public, for reasons discussed in the FAQ.

Recording sales is an enormous pain in the ass, which is why we have a dozen members on the Valuation Board who have split up the workload.  It used to be just me, and yep, I missed some.  I'm even less diligent now in recording sales for the Auction History section, mainly because I don't have the time, and also because the section is not particularly relevant (i.e., it has no bearing on estimated values).  Even if someone with lots of free time were to send me hundreds of sale prices each month for inclusion there, I wouldn't have the time to enter all the values onto the page.  It's mainly there for legacy issues.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:53 pm 
 

Just to back up Foul's point, I have personally have tracked and recorded over 100 individual ebay sales over the last year. WIth that, I have about 1/10 of the items under the rarity values of 3,4,& 5. The figures for all items that are being used here:

http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/Rares.html

as well as any other 3's found here :

http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/Rulebooks.html

http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/ModCode.html

http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/Misc.html

are all being in-depth tracked by myself and the other board members.

The figures listed in the estimated values columns above are all based on those items sales histories that have been tracked by the board mem,bers and Foul has been forwarded these figures by BTB. We are in the process as well of looking to track most if not all of the common items, although for the sake of time and common sense we are going to be limiting the sampling size and the detail to which we are tracking those items. I imagine the ever sale of every item may not have been recorded over the last year, but I would feel safe in saying that we have tracked 100% of all 4 & 5 rarities and probably 95% of all 3 rarities.


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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:34 pm 
 

FoulFoot wrote:
Recording sales is an enormous pain in the ass, which is why we have a dozen members on the Valuation Board who have split up the workload. It used to be just me, and yep, I missed some. I'm even less diligent now in recording sales for the Auction History section, mainly because I don't have the time, and also because the section is not particularly relevant (i.e., it has no bearing on estimated values). Even if someone with lots of free time were to send me hundreds of sale prices each month for inclusion there, I wouldn't have the time to enter all the values onto the page. It's mainly there for legacy issues.

Foul


    Hey, I'm not saying it isn't an enormous pain in the ass, I agree totally. Which is why I suggested a separate sticky for recording recent auctions or sales.  God knows the task of just running this site is enormous without some asshat like myself suggesting a heavier workload.  However, given the low amount of Rares auctioned or sold each year I don't think it's too hard to have a section that lists current auction prices.  I know it doesn't have any practical relevance to the arcane formula for grading/pricing items via the Valuation board.  I actually dont' really care about the prices of the Valuation board, although I acknowledge the hard work they do, it's just not relevant to what I myself do on Ebay.  I bet a lot of other forum members feel the same way...we just would like available on one spot a listing of what Rares have gone for in recent auctions, for both reference and discussion points.  
   Let's say the Valuation Board is the Wall Street Journal of the RPG world, well I'm interested in the sleezy tabloids, the gossip mongering whores of the RPG world, the down and dirty "What on EARTH did he pay for that?" sensationalism.  I know this subject is right now discussed on half a dozen other places sort of haphazardly, I'm suggesting one central site for listing and discussing the recent/current auction prices for Rares ONLY.  Rather than make extra work for Foul or anyone else, if there were a sticky marked something like "Current Rares Auction Prices"  anyone here could add to or comment on the list.  IMO, if there are say five sales of an Orange B3 in one year, it would in helpful to see something like this:

Orange B3: $435---Fine (Ebay 6/3/06); $499---Fine (Ebay 1/31/06); $800---NM (Ebay 4/4/06); $1000---SW Mint (Private Sale 6/6/06); $1010---Mint signed Erol Otus (Gencon 8/21/06)

I know this kind of data is available to whoever on the Valuation Board is tracking Orange B3's, and that is fine.  But I think it would be fun, if not particularly scientific, to have a ready list of recent auctions of Rares available for everyone, not just the chosen few who track the data for value purposes. Once again, I think the Valuation Board members do a great job, it's just not the kind of data I'm particularly interested in as it doesn't impact my own selling or buying trends. I'm more interested in what the latest prices Rares have brought in auctions, for discussion purposes more than anything else. I realize this may be impossible or limited but I thought I might as well suggest it and see what kind of interest it brings.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:11 pm 
 

*adds proviso* (?)
bclarkie wrote:...but I would feel safe in saying that we have tracked 100% of all 4 & 5 rarities and probably 95% of all 3 rarities.

... that have been sold as individual items, no?

For example, an OCE that also has a copy of Greyhawk bundled in the same auction is not tracked (IIRC).

  


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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:48 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:*adds proviso* (?)

bclarkie wrote:...but I would feel safe in saying that we have tracked 100% of all 4 & 5 rarities and probably 95% of all 3 rarities.


... that have been sold as individual items, no?



For example, an OCE that also has a copy of Greyhawk bundled in the same auction is not tracked (IIRC).


Yes, thats correct.  I figured that was an already understood fact. :oops:


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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:46 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:the gossip mongering whores of the RPG world


You rang?  :lol:

I'm suggesting one central site for listing and discussing the recent/current auction prices for Rares ONLY. Rather than make extra work for Foul or anyone else, if there were a sticky marked something like "Current Rares Auction Prices" anyone here could add to or comment on the list.


Not a bad idea.  You can always make the thread and let Foul worry about whether it deserves stickiness.  There are enough rares sold that it should one the first couple of pages, in any event. ;)

I know this kind of data is available to whoever on the Valuation Board is tracking Orange B3's, and that is fine.


We should be so lucky!  In reality, its nowhere near as succinct as that...and its written in a secret code of twisty, shifting characters.



I used to track the rare auctions for my own reference, (including high non-winning bids by the major players, which could be extremely useful if I ever get a mountain of cash) but I haven't been keeping it up to date lately.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:01 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
harami2000 wrote:*adds proviso* (?)
bclarkie wrote:...but I would feel safe in saying that we have tracked 100% of all 4 & 5 rarities and probably 95% of all 3 rarities.

... that have been sold as individual items, no?

For example, an OCE that also has a copy of Greyhawk bundled in the same auction is not tracked (IIRC).

Yes, thats correct. I figured that was an already understood fact. :oops:

We is thick out here... ;)

Which actually means that only 50%, say, of OCEs sold are actually "fully" tracked as part of the "estimated value" for the "worth" of an OCE. Apols, just a general point/check in passing.

The same would apply for an Inverness tourney bundled together with a few other relatively mundane mods in a given auction.
(Losing such a data point is perhaps more problematic).

deimos3428 wrote:
I know this kind of data is available to whoever on the Valuation Board is tracking Orange B3's, and that is fine.

We should be so lucky! In reality, its nowhere near as succinct as that...and its written in a secret code of twisty, shifting characters.

:D

  


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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:14 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:Which actually means that only 50%, say, of OCEs sold are actually "fully" tracked as part of the "estimated value" for the "worth" of an OCE. Apols, just a general point/check in passing.

True.  It becomes very difficult to extract the OCE value from the rest of the lot.
The same would apply for an Inverness tourney bundled together with a few other relatively mundane mods in a given auction.
(Losing such a data point is perhaps more problematic).

Not always true:

1.  If the Inverness were bundled with a B2 and some dice, we'd assume nobody was really going for the B2 or the dice.  
2.  If it's bundled with a couple hundred pounds of random stuff and a signed button stating "Gary Gygax is cool", we can't use it.
3.  If one is ever bundled with a Tsoj. and a Tamo, I suppose we divide by three and everyone swears some sort of cover-up oath. ;)

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:42 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:
Badmike wrote:the gossip mongering whores of the RPG world

You rang? :lol:
I'm suggesting one central site for listing and discussing the recent/current auction prices for Rares ONLY. Rather than make extra work for Foul or anyone else, if there were a sticky marked something like "Current Rares Auction Prices" anyone here could add to or comment on the list.

Not a bad idea. You can always make the thread and let Foul worry about whether it deserves stickiness. There are enough rares sold that it should one the first couple of pages, in any event. ;)


    The funny thing is, if you notice the general direction of most of my posts, I'm not a Rares kind of guy.  I don't really collect them and a I don't really seek them out, I just think it's interesting the latest prices I see, which are Rares selling for perhaps ten times their "listed" or "accepted" values and was just curious if this were a trend or an abberation.  So, I'll go ahead and put my ass on the line and start a new thread, dedicated to rares, hopefully I'll get lots and lots of help from the fine people on these boards as most of the time I don't even know a Woodgrain has sold unless someone else has posted about it....
    Hopefully there will be some sort of interest and not just a huge, crashing sound of my own ego as everyone ignores my new posts.  Oh well.

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