PDFs vs originals and their impact on collecting...
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 5 of 612, 3, 4, 56
Author


Verbose Collector

Posts: 1669
Joined: Sep 03, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 28, 2021
Location: Portown

Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:38 pm 
 

Yikes! Now I'm sorry I posted the link. Unfortunately, I hadn't actually purchased any myself. (For some reason, I thought the watermark would only be on the first page.) Thanks for the warning.

 WWW  


Sage Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 2884
Joined: Nov 04, 2004
Last Visit: May 09, 2020

Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:42 pm 
 

No, no, I think posting that info. was a good thing — the more knowledge, the better. Plus, as disappointed as I am, it's still just one man's opinion — it's quite possible some Acaeum members won't be bothered by this sort of watermarking.

My criticism was reserved for Paizo, not for you ... I'm hoping that comes across clearly.

 WWW  


Sage Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 2884
Joined: Nov 04, 2004
Last Visit: May 09, 2020

Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:49 pm 
 

**Thread hijack!**

And, BTW, Zach, I'm loving the Dragon Archive. Thanks again. :wink:

** We now return you to your thread **

 WWW  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3066
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 30, 2015

Post Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:12 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:No, no, I think posting that info. was a good thing — the more knowledge, the better. Plus, as disappointed as I am, it's still just one man's opinion — it's quite possible some Acaeum members won't be bothered by this sort of watermarking.

My criticism was reserved for Paizo, not for you ... I'm hoping that comes across clearly.

I'm pretty sure a decent hex editor should be able to clear that up for you nicely...try hunting for your name as a text string and replace it with ASCII nulls... ;)

 YIM  

User avatar

Site Admin

Posts: 2119
Joined: Oct 19, 2002
Last Visit: Nov 28, 2021
Location: Honolulu, HI

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:30 am 
 

I believe .PDF files are stored as images, so there won't be any text strings.  You need OCR software to convert PDFs to Word documents, for instance (and it usually doesn't do a good job).

Foul

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3593
Joined: Dec 20, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 25, 2021
Location: Canada

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:40 am 
 

FoulFoot wrote:I believe .PDF files are stored as images, so there won't be any text strings. You need OCR software to convert PDFs to Word documents, for instance (and it usually doesn't do a good job).

Foul


I have tried doing this with OCR software.  Items need extensive proofreading to fix the huge amount of errors.  Almost better off to handtype in the whole deal.

J


Games can get you through times of no money but money can not get you through times of no games!!

 WWW  


Active Collector

Posts: 34
Joined: Oct 17, 2005
Last Visit: Jan 03, 2008
Location: Michigan

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:26 am 
 

Have you tried Adobe Acrobat Professional?  I'm sure that since the watermarks are unique to your copy, they would not be in the image of each page itself, but just a graphic element included on each page....

 YIM  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 144
Joined: Apr 26, 2005
Last Visit: May 03, 2021
Location: Rhosgobel

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:12 am 
 

Xaxaxe wrote: there is no substitute for owning the actual item.


If i can tell my useless opinion, that is an interesting point.
From my perspective, for a collector, nothing can take the place of a specific item, rare or not.
If I want that item for collection, a pdf version cannot stand for the original, even if it is a B2 or an X1 (unless I collect PDFs but that's another story  :wink: ).
But this doesn't mean that pdfs are crap ... it's the same thing if I want a SW module (or a boxed set): the PDF version cannot fulfill my desire but original-mint-but-not-SW copy cannot, too.
That's all.

But, if I understand him, Brian is trying to underline that, in any case, the presence of a potential substitute for a product (every kind of product) more or less affects the market.

bclarkie wrote:if there is one person out there, just 1, that decides not to buy an item becuase it freely available on pdf, then the item in question has lost value


For example, if there was only one kind of car in the world, it would have a price; since there are many different possibilities (in terms of quality, shape, etc ) the price are certainly lowered ...

That's simple and true.
At that point, the problem is "What does it mean "potential substitute"? 8O
That question, IMO, is closely related to the reason why people buy something, so the point become: "Are we speaking about collector's market or about "normal" people's market?"

A normal is a person who buys a little Opel/Vahxall (like me) or a FIAT instead of a Posche or a Ferrari because they are cheaper or because he has to use the car, not only to own it. In the same way, he buys a module to read it and to play it: if a cheaper PDF is available, why not?  :wink:
On the other hand, a collector wants to get an item just to own it.

(I bought a SW OB3 from Frank and I'll never open it. But I've never read that module (nor downloaded it): I don't care about the text or the adventure, I wanted the module (just like now I want a ST1). I bought a coverless Jade Hare from Mike. It is not SW but I've never opened or read it. I have it: that's enough.)  :D  :D

The difference is between the reason why I buy cars (I have to use them, I'm normal) and why I buy D&D items (I want to own them, I'm a collector).

So I don't think PDFs have an impact on collector's market (strictly speaking) because they can't replace an original, while they do have an impact (I don't know how deep) on the normal market, generally speaking (gamers etc).

And I think that sellers are interested to market generally speaking ... not only collector's one. Isn't it? :wink:

The last point is that the line between collectors and normal people isn't so precise. Everyone of you (of us) are at the same time and for the same products (every kind of product) a little bit "collectors" and a little bit "normal people" ...  

That's why the discussion can be "neverending"  :D  
I love discussions  8)  8)

Cheers
Giorgio

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6490
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Nov 28, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:09 am 
 

Ok. Who actually cares?

Is there anyone here who has a problem with WoTC lisencing companies to sell PDFs?

Breach of copyright is a different matter. That is not what was discussed here, and that belongs on another thread.

Who honestly cares whether WoTC decide to sell PDFs or not?

It is their property. They are free to do with it as they will.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . gummy bears.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 144
Joined: Apr 26, 2005
Last Visit: May 03, 2021
Location: Rhosgobel

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:14 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Ok. Who actually cares?

Is there anyone here who has a problem with WoTC lisencing companies to sell PDFs?

Breach of copyright is a different matter. That is not what was discussed here, and that belongs on another thread.

Who honestly cares whether WoTC decide to sell PDFs or not?

It is their property. They are free to do with it as they will.


Something I've said???  :?:

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:49 am 
 

one thing i was wondering about. RPGnow sells them on their site legally, which i have no problem with at all.

how come they dont sell them on ebay? best market-place in the world i guess......would seem the way to go. they are not breaching copyright as they have licence to sell them...

any thoughts?

Al

Ps> Giorgio: yes it is something you said. Italians always cause trouble :D



  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 144
Joined: Apr 26, 2005
Last Visit: May 03, 2021
Location: Rhosgobel

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:53 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:Ps> Giorgio: yes it is something you said. Italians always cause trouble :D


Ahhhh. OK. Now I understand.  :D  :wink:  :D

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6490
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Nov 28, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:10 am 
 

Maybe its written into their ESD lisence with WoTC.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . gummy bears.

 WWW  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3066
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 30, 2015

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:48 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Ok. Who actually cares?

Is there anyone here who has a problem with WoTC lisencing companies to sell PDFs?

I do, but I think I already made that point.  Moving on...

Who honestly cares whether WoTC decide to sell PDFs or not?

It is their property. They are free to do with it as they will.

I suppose legally they are allowed to do with it as they will.  Big deal.  That doesn't mean I have to like it, or buy it.  That doesn't make it any less of a money grab.  Being a copyright holder doesn't make you somehow infallible.  Successful companies are responsible to their customers and their fanbase.

 YIM  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3066
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 30, 2015

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:01 am 
 

FoulFoot wrote:I believe .PDF files are stored as images, so there won't be any text strings. You need OCR software to convert PDFs to Word documents, for instance (and it usually doesn't do a good job).

Actually, there are, I just created one to make sure.  :)
 
PDFs are binary files, but they aren't purely images (apparently they can contain JFIF, aka. "JPEG" files).  The text of the document itself isn't viewable from a hex editor, but likely an "extra feature" like watermarking would be, you'd need to experiment a bit.  The headers are text strings, for example.  
Please note I said a hex editor (debug), not a text editor (notepad).  :wink:

Nobody out-off-topics deimos!  8)

 YIM  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6490
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Nov 28, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:14 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:I suppose legally they are allowed to do with it as they will. Big deal. That doesn't mean I have to like it, or buy it. That doesn't make it any less of a money grab. Being a copyright holder doesn't make you somehow infallible. Successful companies are responsible to their customers and their fanbase.

I think Loraine McWilliams successfully separated Dungeons & Dragons from it's fanbase.

Aside...

I know this guy who sells cars. He gets real pissed off that people buy and sell second hand cars 'cos it reduces demand for his cars, and it drives down prices.

If you have a rare D&D product, does it not really piss you off when someone else sells one on eBay. Because that reduces its perceived rarity and will impact on the price you get for yours when you sell it?


This week I've been mostly eating . . . gummy bears.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 7969
Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Last Visit: Nov 26, 2021
Location: DFW TX

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:58 am 
 

radagast wrote:
(I bought a SW OB3 from Frank and I'll never open it. But I've never read that module (nor downloaded it): I don't care about the text or the adventure, I wanted the module (just like now I want a ST1). I bought a coverless Jade Hare from Mike. It is not SW but I've never opened or read it. I have it: that's enough.) :D :D


Cheers
Giorgio


Wow, then you
missed the piece of gum I stuck between pages 4 and 5!

:twisted:

Mike B.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:06 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Wow, then you
missed the piece of gum I stuck between pages 4 and 5!

:twisted:

Mike B.


mike that is truly evil! :D



  
PreviousNext
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 5 of 612, 3, 4, 56