No, no, I think posting that info. was a good thing — the more knowledge, the better. Plus, as disappointed as I am, it's still just one man's opinion — it's quite possible some Acaeum members won't be bothered by this sort of watermarking.

My criticism was reserved for Paizo, not for you ... I'm hoping that comes across clearly.

Xaxaxe wrote:No, no, I think posting that info. was a good thing — the more knowledge, the better. Plus, as disappointed as I am, it's still just one man's opinion — it's quite possible some Acaeum members won't be bothered by this sort of watermarking.

My criticism was reserved for Paizo, not for you ... I'm hoping that comes across clearly.

I'm pretty sure a decent hex editor should be able to clear that up for you nicely...try hunting for your name as a text string and replace it with ASCII nulls...

FoulFoot wrote:I believe .PDF files are stored as images, so there won't be any text strings. You need OCR software to convert PDFs to Word documents, for instance (and it usually doesn't do a good job).

Foul

I have tried doing this with OCR software.  Items need extensive proofreading to fix the huge amount of errors.  Almost better off to handtype in the whole deal.

J

Xaxaxe wrote: there is no substitute for owning the actual item.

If i can tell my useless opinion, that is an interesting point.
From my perspective, for a collector, nothing can take the place of a specific item, rare or not.
If I want that item for collection, a pdf version cannot stand for the original, even if it is a B2 or an X1 (unless I collect PDFs but that's another story  :wink: ).
But this doesn't mean that pdfs are crap ... it's the same thing if I want a SW module (or a boxed set): the PDF version cannot fulfill my desire but original-mint-but-not-SW copy cannot, too.
That's all.

But, if I understand him, Brian is trying to underline that, in any case, the presence of a potential substitute for a product (every kind of product) more or less affects the market.

bclarkie wrote:if there is one person out there, just 1, that decides not to buy an item becuase it freely available on pdf, then the item in question has lost value

For example, if there was only one kind of car in the world, it would have a price; since there are many different possibilities (in terms of quality, shape, etc ) the price are certainly lowered ...

That's simple and true.
At that point, the problem is "What does it mean "potential substitute"?
That question, IMO, is closely related to the reason why people buy something, so the point become: "Are we speaking about collector's market or about "normal" people's market?"

A normal is a person who buys a little Opel/Vahxall (like me) or a FIAT instead of a Posche or a Ferrari because they are cheaper or because he has to use the car, not only to own it. In the same way, he buys a module to read it and to play it: if a cheaper PDF is available, why not?  :wink:
On the other hand, a collector wants to get an item just to own it.

(I bought a SW OB3 from Frank and I'll never open it. But I've never read that module (nor downloaded it): I don't care about the text or the adventure, I wanted the module (just like now I want a ST1). I bought a coverless Jade Hare from Mike. It is not SW but I've never opened or read it. I have it: that's enough.)  :D  :D

The difference is between the reason why I buy cars (I have to use them, I'm normal) and why I buy D&D items (I want to own them, I'm a collector).

So I don't think PDFs have an impact on collector's market (strictly speaking) because they can't replace an original, while they do have an impact (I don't know how deep) on the normal market, generally speaking (gamers etc).

And I think that sellers are interested to market generally speaking ... not only collector's one. Isn't it?

The last point is that the line between collectors and normal people isn't so precise. Everyone of you (of us) are at the same time and for the same products (every kind of product) a little bit "collectors" and a little bit "normal people" ...  

That's why the discussion can be "neverending"  :D  
I love discussions  8)  8)

Cheers
Giorgio

mbassoc2003 wrote:Ok. Who actually cares?

Is there anyone here who has a problem with WoTC lisencing companies to sell PDFs?

Breach of copyright is a different matter. That is not what was discussed here, and that belongs on another thread.

Who honestly cares whether WoTC decide to sell PDFs or not?

It is their property. They are free to do with it as they will.

Something I've said???  :?:

killjoy32 wrote:Ps> Giorgio: yes it is something you said. Italians always cause trouble

Ahhhh. OK. Now I understand.  :D  :wink:  :D

mbassoc2003 wrote:Ok. Who actually cares?

Is there anyone here who has a problem with WoTC lisencing companies to sell PDFs?

I do, but I think I already made that point.  Moving on...

Who honestly cares whether WoTC decide to sell PDFs or not?

It is their property. They are free to do with it as they will.

I suppose legally they are allowed to do with it as they will.  Big deal.  That doesn't mean I have to like it, or buy it.  That doesn't make it any less of a money grab.  Being a copyright holder doesn't make you somehow infallible.  Successful companies are responsible to their customers and their fanbase.

deimos3428 wrote:I suppose legally they are allowed to do with it as they will. Big deal. That doesn't mean I have to like it, or buy it. That doesn't make it any less of a money grab. Being a copyright holder doesn't make you somehow infallible. Successful companies are responsible to their customers and their fanbase.

I think Loraine McWilliams successfully separated Dungeons & Dragons from it's fanbase.

Aside...

I know this guy who sells cars. He gets real pissed off that people buy and sell second hand cars 'cos it reduces demand for his cars, and it drives down prices.

If you have a rare D&D product, does it not really piss you off when someone else sells one on eBay. Because that reduces its perceived rarity and will impact on the price you get for yours when you sell it?

Badmike wrote:
Wow, then you
missed the piece of gum I stuck between pages 4 and 5!



Mike B.

mike that is truly evil!