Actual Artwork
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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:15 am 
 

I would like to collect actual artwork.  I do not know the best way of going about this.  Does the actual artwork come up on ebay all that often.  Or do I have to go to the artists' website.  



How much does a painting used for the cover of Dragon Magazine go for? Just a ball park figure would be fine.



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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:24 am 
 

tsrart enter stage left...

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:45 am 
 

I would think the original artist would be your best bet.  Unless someone else bought the original first or it was part of the deal with TSR, most artists keep the original and only sell lithos.   But if TSR bought all rights to the art then they might have demanded the originals too.



(I have lots of artist friends, they tend to borrow money alot, lol, but I love what they do.)   :D


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:29 am 
 

The original artwork comes up on eBay quite often. Both Treasure Trove and Burntwire have sold original artworks in the past six months, indeed Rob Kuntz put up the original artwork from City of Brass. Also, Larry Elmore sells his orignal artwork through eBay. There are also one or two dealers about selling originals from their collections. They tend to pop up whenever theres a free listing day, but their prices are extortionate.



Keep an eye on eBay and keep an eye on the board, and save your pennies. I'm sure anything of interest will be flagged up here. Good luck. :D


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:03 am 
 

I agree with tracking down the artists.  Most have a presence on the web.  In addition, Noble Knight games sells originals  http://www.nobleknight.com/ViewManuf.asp_Q_CategoryID_E_15 .  There is also  The Illustration Exchange http://www.munchkinpress.com that has fantasy illustrations for sale and shows off personal collections of fantasy illustration.



I would do your homework.  Look around at various websites.  Get to know the price range which original cover art and interior black and white illustrations go for.  Then you will have a good idea if you are getting a fair price.



The newer stuff is probably quite easy to find.  If you are after the classic stuff (1st edition stuff) I would image you will have a tougher time finding the artists as well as available artwork for sale.



As stated in another post tsrart is the one who could probably give you the best advice.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:12 am 
 

On a related topic, does anyone know the whereabouts of the original TOEE cover art?


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:19 am 
 

Try searching the Acaeum Forums. There have been a lot of random posts about particular artworks in the past.



To get started, check out all of the posts by Tsrart:



search.php?search_id=1193953145



There's also an Artwork Museum at the Acaeum which unfortunately has not been updated in quite a while:



http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/Museum.html

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:52 pm 
 

I find the ebay prices to actually be most reasonable for original art....with the exception being the dude in texas trying to sell the Gamma World Parkinson for 18k. For this reason I believe most buying and selling occurs privately between collectors/dealers/and artists. To tap this you have to get into the circuit and start emailing a lot of people. It is surprising how many opportunities to buy stuff falls in your lap.



1e stuff if very very very difficult to find. Especially the very early items from 74-82. All are still seriously undervalued and have not experienced the rapid growth associated with the hobby of collecting gaming ephemera that we are all interested here. With that being said, you can still find original covers for less than $1,000 with most of them being late 1e into 2e and beyond. Whether that seems to be a bargain is up to those who might be interested.



Covers for Dragons are difficult to place values on as some of the illustrators have moved on to careers far different than some of the more obvious TSR illustrators we are more familiar with. Vallejo comes to mind as one. Dean Morrissey is another whose originals of anything from that period command upwards of $20k. I would love to own one but if I had to spend that kind of money I would rather save it for the shot at the PHB original Tramp.

Other Dragon covers get considerably less and can be had for the $1,000-$1,500 range if you can find them. I have 4 Dragon covers personally and 1 Dungeon cover with opportunities to buy 3 other Dungeon covers and another Dragon.

I once lost Dragon 11 in auction to Harami for the $400 range but I think it is worth triple that now.



As an aside, I do not know of ToEE exists. I am guessing that it still does. Sadly, I would think the estate items belonging to Keith himself might come up for sale depending on the wishes of his heirs. I never got a chance to ask him what he had left in his possession so I am not sure.


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:29 pm 
 

I think Adam summed up a lot of the issues quite nicely. I'll just add a few specific pointers that I've picked up over the last 10 years:



1) Always check with the artist first. You can shop much more intelligently if you know what is readily available from the source, and for how much.



2) Stuff does turn up on eBay with some frequency, but it's pot luck - you get what you get. If you just want a Dragon cover, then you have a good shot. If you want a Clyde Caldwell Dragon cover, your odds aren't as good. And if you want a specific Caldwell cover, well, good luck.



3) As Adam pointed out, prices on Dragon covers vary tremendously depending on the artist. If you want to post a list of artists/pieces you're interested in owning, I can give you pretty accurate price points and probably give you some idea of the likely places to look.



3a) Adam, there's actually been an early Morrissey Dragon cover floating around eBay for $2500. Later book covers run into $5k or so, but it's his recent major children's book illustrations and gallery paintings that get up into 5 figures.



4) 1E . . . . good luck. I quit collecting 1E pieces because I couldn't find enough to keep things interesting. All the major HB covers are in permanent collections and not going anywhere soon. Isolated classic Dragon and/or major module covers could pop up at any time, of course, but I'd probably bet the Texans before I bet on that. There are also a couple of major collectors with deep pockets who are not part of this board, including the now rich and famous Tony DiTerlizzi.



5) In the early days, TSR did, in fact, keep all of the artwork done by their staff illustrators. By the time of the "second wave" (Parkinson et al) the artists did get to keep their originals, although TSR had first rights to buy things they felt were significant. (WotC subsequently returned all purchased paintings to the artists, leading to some very happy artists who were able to sell paintings twice.)



6)ToEE . . . . can't help there. I never asked Keith about that piece. Keith was kind of in the middle as far as available stuff - he still had more classic pieces than, say, Clyde, but not as many as Jeff. I spent five years trying to convince him to sell me VALSHEA, but never did manage to get him to part with it.



7) Finally, anyone who has inquiries about specific artists or pieces, go ahead and post and I'll fill in whatever info I've got.



Hope that helped, Martin!


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:42 pm 
 

Hi Pat! Could you please PM details on this Morrisey auction? I had only ever seen his really pricey stuff for sale so I assumed his early stuff was out of site as well.



Perhaps Hildebrandts would better serve as an example of through the roof prices.  :wink:



As an aside. Sometime this winter, I should have a complete collection of 10 significant 1e covers to launch a view of my collection on your website. I will shoot you an email on this in the future if that is OK.


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:26 pm 
 

Adam -



Consider yourself PM'd!



Actually, those Hildebrandt Dragon covers are right up near the top of my want list . . . . If anyone ever happens to trip across one of those pieces, let me know. If it's for sale, I'll send you brownies. (If it's for sale AND cheap, I'll send pixies as well!)



Just off the cuff, I would guess that THE single most expensive Dragon magazine cover would be the one cover that Boris did.



Boris sold close to 100 of his best 70s-early 80s paintings to a Japanese corporation during the go-go 80s when the Japanese were investing in fantasy art for crazy amounts, particularly people like Boris, his son Dorian, and Rowena. (If you wondered how Rowena paintings ended up in the Iraq Love Shack, they almost certainly came via Japan.)



As a result, prime vintage Boris stuff is really hard to find, and tends to carry pretty big price tags. I was looking for a Savage Sword of Conan cover by Boris, but the only one I could find that was anywhere near being for sale was over $20k.



But I digress . . . .



It occurs to me that I may not have ever mentioned The Illustration Exchange here, so since Adam has referenced it I'll put in a plug. I run a website for illustration art collectors where people can list paintings for sale, or post a wanted list. There is also a Collections section where people can post their top 10 paintings. Anyone who's interested in original TSR art ought to check it out periodically.



http://www.munchkinpress.com


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:37 pm 
 

:D Just wanted to mention this Beekman of your is abolutely stunning. Were you at the Spectrum Gallery opening? I wish I had noticed this detail on your website earlier this fall. I would have liked to have gone.



Image


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:46 pm 
 

Thanks! That Beekman is one of my favorite paintings. (The very favorite piece, because I dreamed of owning it for 10 years, is Michael Whelan's Elric of Melnibone cover WEIRD OF THE WHITE WOLF.)



I was supposed to be at the Spectrum show, but my dogsitter backed out at the last minute and my wife and I were unable to attend. Curses!! My friend Gregg was there and took pictures of our pieces that were in the show, so I at least got to see pictures of them.



I think the show was a fabulous idea, and it was a tremendous success, but I'll be very happy if no one asks me to ship that Beekman again any time soon . . . .


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:00 am 
 

Tsrart,



That Beekman is absolutely gorgious.  I especially love the undead type paintings.  Thanks for all of the info, guys.  I'm just starting out on the original artwork and that helps a lot.  I do not own one piece yet, and probably will not be able to buy for two or so years.





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Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:07 pm 
 

Martin -



Thanks!



When the times comes and you're ready to seriously start looking for stuff, let me know and I'll be happy to give you whatever assistance I can.


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Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:07 am 
 

Okay, stupid question time:

I've been interested in collecting old fantasy art for quite a while, but I've never bothered to contact Dee, Otus, etc. because I figured many of you had already contacted them so I didn't want to bother them.  Is it worthwhile, or am I right that I'd just be a pain?  

Does anyone know what happened with the GDQ cover that dragontreasure had been selling on eBay for $7,000?  Did anyone buy it?  I was tempted to pull the trigger a couple of times, but just felt it was a couple thousand too much.  

Does anyone know if a lot of the interior illustrations from 1ed. modules survived?

Which Dragon's Morissey cover went for $2,500?  His work is great too.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:24 am 
 

Hmmm . . . can't speak to the GDQ cover. I don't know if it was sold or not. Dragontreasure owns a lot of TSR and TSR related art - I bought an Elmore from them about two years ago. It would probably be worth dropping them an email, though. The $7k IS probably too much, but given the scarcity of major Parkinsons on the market . . . .



The Morrissey that was for sale was the cover to Dragon #18. It's not on eBay right now, though - I don't know whether it was sold or not.



I've seen a few interior module illos, but not a lot. Probably some of the other guys here have seen more of those than I have . . . . Most of the inks that I used to own were from the HC rulebooks or unused.



Well, you can certainly contact the old guys, but I don't believe any of them have much of anything left at this point - they never had much (except Roslof) and have been pretty well cleaned out by this point in time.


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Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:39 am 
 

I hope those interior illustrations just ended up in some big collectors' stash, and not in the TSR trash.  



Has anyone tried to track down Trampier's cab in Carbondale, Illinois?  

That man was amazing and he probably doesn't even realize it....

  


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Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:45 am 
 

The way I see it. What is the worst that can happen if you track these guys down and ask them for the 1000th time if they have anything old to sell. The fact of the matter is I think they do.

For example, Tim Truman just 2 months ago finally sold off his original cover to Blizzard Pass. Tim has sold lots of stuff in the past yet held onto that for sentimental purposes I guess. I missed this sale by Tim by like 2 weeks. I asked him if he had anything for sale and he said it was all gone. I tend to understand that to mean that everything he is willing to sell is all gone. So I will ask him again sometime next year.



PS. Dathon, if you score with any of these guys will you please drop me a line if they have anything additional to purchase that you aren't interested in?  :wink:


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Post Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:07 am 
 

Adam Shultz wrote:
PS. Dathon, if you score with any of these guys will you please drop me a line if they have anything additional to purchase that you aren't interested in? :wink:




I probably won't get around to asking them until well after the holidays when I return from an overseas trip, but I will certainly let you know if I get any news.

  
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