3E rarities in 20+ years time...
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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:49 am 
 

just to show i dont have anything against 3E despite the fact that i dont really like it (:D)...i thought i would ask this:



we look back at 1E/OD&D and we have a large batch of really rare stuff, such as ST1, the R series and the RPGA series, to name but a few. they are classics and are rare in their own right and can demand hefty amounts of money.



so concentrating on 3E only, you guys in the know, with what is available now and maybe to come, what do you feel will be of similar ilk in say 20 years, relating to 3E products? is there anything that stands out that will be a classic? what will be rare?



good discussion point imo and would be very interested in your thoughts...



Al



  

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:15 am 
 

I think all those crap d20 add-ons for 3E D&D, especially the ones that no-one buys, published by no-name companies you never hear of again, will all end up like the non-TSR stuff that only crops up on eBay from time to time.



From WoTC, the early stuff with low print runs, freebies and the products that no-one wants. Those'll be the ones that are rare.



But then rare in 20 years time will be a lot less rare than rare today, 'cos of the internet, larger print runs and the bigger world market for the product.



Early D&D was a small hobby game, and publishing was limited. 3E is a worldwide commercial enterprise, and the print runs now reflect that.


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:56 am 
 

How about Goodman Games's "Haunted Lighthouse"?



Still, I doubt it'll ever reach the level of values and collectability we see with the original stuff.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:16 am 
 

What about the Conversion Guide? It's that crap little pamphlet for converting 2nd ed. to 3rd ed. I think that most have been thrown out and many more will bite the dust in the coming years.



It's worthless now anyway, so I'm hanging onto one just in case . . .  8)


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:37 am 
 

The conversion guide, the Greyhawk Gazeteer (REYNOLDS YOU FUCKER YOU ARE NOT MORDENKAINEN YOU CHAIN-SMOKING NO TALENT BALD HACK)...oooh, there's this company and I can't remember who it is but they released a slew of $1.99 modules that were like two or three pages long; really badly produced but the content seemed solid for a threetarded product...hm, I bet those will get expensive when I'm ready to retire. ;)



Of course by then copies of ST1 will sell for a half-mil easy, and Paul will be able to buy most of Fiji with his Woodgrain set auction. :D

  

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:35 pm 
 

DungeonDelver wrote:....oooh, there's this company and I can't remember who it is but they released a slew of $1.99 modules that were like two or three pages long; really badly produced...

That'll be Wizards of The Coast. :D  :lol:


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:04 pm 
 

Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil will be considered classic -- It is OOP but still a popular module which sells quite well on Ebay.

I have a feeling the new not-for-sale printed RPGA modules will become some of the "rares" of the future.

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:23 pm 
 

I would have to agree with the Adventure Guild modules (I think those are the RPGAones) the Haunted Lighthouse module by Goodman I think it is could become very pricey. Other than that most of the WotC stuff is too mass produced. I picked up a copy of the GenCon version of the Greyhawk Gaz as it was a fairly small print run or I was told so. Not sure what else. I think some of the smaller press stuff could become pricey but not in the "ultra Rare" range.


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:36 pm 
 

I would definitely say the Gen Con special The Haunted Lighthouse is defintely a keeper,and to be honest all the early Goodman Games 3.0 modules will probably get good prices. RTTOEE will also probably always command good prices due to its pedigree and connection to the original, abut due to its high print run I dont think it will ever command super high prices. I also believe that the RPGA special Greyhawk Gazetteers will be very collectible 20 years down the road as well.

Aside, why does it seem that this site is becoming more and more filled with 3rd edition stuff. :?  Nothing at all against 3rd edition, but this site is definitely not a 3rd ed site and yet a lot of the recent threads are focusing on 3rd edition. :?


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:44 pm 
 

Hehe, right you are, clarkie.  I'm glad you mentioned it.  It's a troubling trend, my friend.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:19 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:I would definitely say the Gen Con special The Haunted Lighthouse is defintely a keeper,and to be honest all the early Goodman Games 3.0 modules will probably get good prices. RTTOEE will also probably always command good prices due to its pedigree and connection to the original, abut due to its high print run I dont think it will ever command super high prices. I also believe that the RPGA special Greyhawk Gazetteers will be very collectible 20 years down the road as well.

Aside, why does it seem that this site is becoming more and more filled with 3rd edition stuff. :? Nothing at all against 3rd edition, but this site is definitely not a 3rd ed site and yet a lot of the recent threads are focusing on 3rd edition. :?


I think the site is seeing more third edition traffic because as people play third edition they gain interest in what there was in the past so they gravitate here. Also I am not sure there are that many other good AD&D/D&D sites out there, are there? Maybe there could be a 3E/D20 section created.


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:11 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:Aside, why does it seem that this site is becoming more and more filled with 3rd edition stuff. :? Nothing at all against 3rd edition, but this site is definitely not a 3rd ed site and yet a lot of the recent threads are focusing on 3rd edition. :?


hey now hang on a second!

i started this thread cos basically i was interested in what might be rare from 3E in times to come.

i am totally 1E and doubt i will ever use anything else, but that doesnt mean i want to remain ignorant of anything else out there....

now if foul puts up a notice that nothing else but 1E can be discussed, then fair enough, but its a little unreasonable that you cant talk about anything that comes to mind?



  

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Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:00 am 
 

Something else to consider is that rare items can be effectively "created" by a Game publisher at any time.   This has already happened many times - just take the mono C2, Tamo and Tsojconth as examples.  Even though the thinking at the time wasn't:

"Let's create a limited run module only available at this Con and someday it will be a collector's item"

. . .  Nevertheless, that is exactly what happened.  Same with ST1.


Future rares will likely occur the same way:  Wotc (for instance) will make a very limited edition item (maybe with print runs of 500 or less) and it will become a new "rare".  Of course, the collector's market will ultimately determine if the value is just $50 or $500.

This may happen deliberately as well . . . comic books caught onto that and in recent years have started to inundate the market with limited run "alternate covers", "re-sketched" editions, etc.  Eventually, overproduction of "rare" items, leads to their loss of value as well.  (So what if there are only 100 issues of a particular type . . . if you do it with 100 different comics it looses its appeal).


The other thing to watch out for are "error" or recalled items.  (like an OB3).  These can pop up by accident at any time and become a bonafide "rare" item.  For instance, what if by some gross editing error, WotC released an item with a potential inflammatory "politically incorrect" statement . . . or maybe an item that infringed on the copyright of another company.  They were recalled (or destroyed), but a few copies managed to get into circulation . . .   Presto!  A modern rare!


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:39 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
bclarkie wrote:Aside, why does it seem that this site is becoming more and more filled with 3rd edition stuff. :? Nothing at all against 3rd edition, but this site is definitely not a 3rd ed site and yet a lot of the recent threads are focusing on 3rd edition. :?


hey now hang on a second!

i started this thread cos basically i was interested in what might be rare from 3E in times to come.

i am totally 1E and doubt i will ever use anything else, but that doesnt mean i want to remain ignorant of anything else out there....

now if foul puts up a notice that nothing else but 1E can be discussed, then fair enough, but its a little unreasonable that you cant talk about anything that comes to mind?


Al, I think you may have misinterprted my comment. This thread is by far the most pertinent to the site, as at least it has to with collecting. I was more referring to the other threads springing out everywhere that have been waging on about 3e and how great/not great it is, thats all. :wink: This thread just happened to be at the top of the list so I posted my comment here. Unfortuantely, even Duke's thread that he started simply to let people know about the rerelease of Tomb of Horrors became a feckin battleground for 3e and I cant figure out why. :?


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:00 am 
 

beyondthebreach wrote:The other thing to watch out for are "error" or recalled items. (like an OB3). These can pop up by accident at any time and become a bonafide "rare" item. For instance, what if by some gross editing error, WotC released an item with a potential inflammatory "politically incorrect" statement . . . or maybe an item that infringed on the copyright of another company. They were recalled (or destroyed), but a few copies managed to get into circulation . . .  Presto! A modern rare!


It will most likely be something recalled or some printing error. Someone here was selling the misprint character sheets from Hackmaster or Goodman Games on eBay recently. It did not make the reserve though. They said there were maybe 300 (not sure of the number) that were made like that. I bid (though not high enough) thinking that they might be something worth something in the future. The most recent example of something worth way more than could be expected because it was recalled or cut short is the Dune game that was sold a few years ago.

Wizards does appear to be trying to generate the scarcity rares though. You have the , limited number, 3E books sold at release that were signed by different people. You have the special edition DM guide, though not sure of those numbers. There is also the limited run prints and lithographs they were, or are still are, selling with Magic and D&D art.


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:12 am 
 

Marlith wrote:Wizards does appear to be trying to generate the scarcity rares though. You have the , limited number, 3E books sold at release that were signed by different people. You have the special edition DM guide, though not sure of those numbers. There is also the limited run prints and lithographs they were, or are still are, selling with Magic and D&D art.


An artificially engineered rarity market will always be just that. Artificial. People see it for what it is and avoid it. WoTC are just banking on the fact that some mugs will buy the stuff thinking its rare and not just the same crap they haven't been able to shift already.


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:27 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:
Marlith wrote:Wizards does appear to be trying to generate the scarcity rares though. You have the , limited number, 3E books sold at release that were signed by different people. You have the special edition DM guide, though not sure of those numbers. There is also the limited run prints and lithographs they were, or are still are, selling with Magic and D&D art.


An artificially engineered rarity market will always be just that. Artificial. People see it for what it is and avoid it. WoTC are just banking on the fact that some mugs will buy the stuff thinking its rare and not just the same crap they haven't been able to shift already.


I can see your point of view but am not sure it will stand the test of time. The items are rarer than the normal items and in the case of the limited edition (leather bound etc) they are uniquely different. If an item being crap yet scarce making it not so valueable why do we all want and ST1 or are willing to pay good money for 10th Anniversary packs (which were the crap they could not sell back then). A rare piece of crap is still rare. It may not be widely desireable but to a collector (and most collectors are print run or completist junkies) it will still be desireable and as the 3E people become the 40 and 50 year old bread winners of tommorrow they will want to complete their 3E collections to regain or relive their youth (like I and some here probably do with basic and 1E).


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:44 am 
 

I doubt there will be any real 3E rarities worth much. I think the current D&D generation will completely forget about 3E when 4E comes out, and when they get older they will not have the enthusiasm for collecting.
Look at the comic book field. Comics from the 1940's fetch the price of a small house, yet even limited prints like Death of Superman are not in very high demand. That is because of 3 factors:

1. Current issues have a much higher print run.

2. Current issues are not a reflection of when comic books "started".

3. Current issues do not have an "old" look or feel about them.

The same will hold true for 3Eeech.


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:25 am 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:I doubt there will be any real 3E rarities worth much. I think the current D&D generation will completely forget about 3E when 4E comes out, and when they get older they will not have the enthusiasm for collecting.
Look at the comic book field. Comics from the 1940's fetch the price of a small house, yet even limited prints like Death of Superman are not in very high demand. That is because of 3 factors:

1. Current issues have a much higher print run.

2. Current issues are not a reflection of when comic books "started".

3. Current issues do not have an "old" look or feel about them.

The same will hold true for 3Eeech.


I am sure each preceding generation holds the current generation in high regard as to what they will or won't do :lol:

Why do you assume they will forget about what they started with? The most memorable aquisition thread alone sees people fondly remembering newer itms, no 3E yet, but then they might be afraid to post that here for fear of ridicule.

As to losing their enthusiasm I am not sure on that. Their generation is a gneration brought up about collecting. It is forced on them from their first Burger King Happy Meal toy (collect all six) to their Pokemon action figures or cards.

Older comics will always stand a chance to be worth more than one later. Though their are many newer comics that are worth more than the chaff comics from years ago. Some of the limited edition bagged comics of the early to mid 90s are in the $100 range already and in 20 or 30 years what might they be worth...perhaps nothing....perhaps much more, though they may hold static bacause no one will open them and you lose the wear and tear effect that affects toys and games. Comics from the mid to late 60's (no where near when comics started are woth tens to almost 100K dollars because this is when that particular title started (X-Men, Spiderman, Fantastic Four).

With Magic cards "summer" magic was a print run problem and common land cards are worth sometimes $10, the rares and misprints can be in the 1K range,  and that was a continuation of perhaps the longest (Revised Edition, at worst second as 4th may have run longer) running print run the game had.

I am not sure what level the old look or feel have about them though I will say the look of WotC 3E stuff does nothing for me. If feel equates to quality then that may be an issue in what survives the test of time and the gaming factors. In comics the art is important but I would rather look at some newer comic artists work than much of the older, though there are many newer artists who can't hold a candle to the top guns of the past. In games the Dungeon Crawl series with Otus art is talked about so I think that the possibility to equal the old look or feel can be there for games still such as C&C.

I strongly feel that some of the D20, which to me is 3e as well, companies are producing items that will be in demand and in some cases rare and pricey to obtain as people learn about them. These will be in demand for quality and because at one time they were smaller companies the print runs will not be as high and WotC items. They have even reprinted the witchfire Triolgy modules already. Some of the ones I see this happening with are Goodman Games, Necromancer Games and there is a company called Living Imagination that is making items I really like though I may be in the minority there.


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:31 am 
 

Was Return to the Tomb of Horrors by Bruce Cordell (with Gary tweaking a little, plus a photostat copy of S1) 2e or 3e?

Because I've seen complete boxed sets of that go for a hundred bucks already.

  
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