Dungeons & Dragons:  What it is and where it is going
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Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:36 pm 
 

Ok, I admit it.  I swiped the thread's title from my newly acquired Dragon #22.  In hopes of steering the neverending "Edition War" in a new direction, I thought I'd share a rather timeless (and somewhat humorous, in hindsight) quote from pg. 30 of that issue.

Gary Gygax wrote:Somehow the school of continuing evolution has conceived that D&D can go on in a state of flux, each new version "new and improved!"  From a standpoint of sales, I beam broadly at the very thought of an unending string of new, improved, super, energized, versions of D&D being hyped to the loyal followers of the gaming hobby in general and role playing fantasy games in particular.  As a game designer I do not agree, particularly as a gamer who began with chess.  The original could benefit from a careful reorganization and expansion to clarify things, and this might be done at some future time.  As all of the ADVANCED D&D system is not written yet, it is a bit early for prognostication, but I envision only minor expansions and some rules amending on a gradual, edition to edition, basis.  When youhave a fine product, it is time to let well enough alone.  I do not believe that hobbyists and casual players should be continually barraged with new rules, new systems, and new drains on their purses.  Certainly there will be changes, for the game is not perfect; but I do not believe the game is so imperfect as to require constant improvement.

-- Gary Gygax, February, 1979.

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:39 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:Ok, I admit it. I swiped the thread's title from my newly acquired Dragon #22. In hopes of steering the neverending "Edition War" in a new direction, I thought I'd share a rather timeless (and somewhat humorous, in hindsight) quote from pg. 30 of that issue.

Gary Gygax wrote:Somehow the school of continuing evolution has conceived that D&D can go on in a state of flux, each new version "new and improved!" From a standpoint of sales, I beam broadly at the very thought of an unending string of new, improved, super, energized, versions of D&D being hyped to the loyal followers of the gaming hobby in general and role playing fantasy games in particular. As a game designer I do not agree, particularly as a gamer who began with chess. The original could benefit from a careful reorganization and expansion to clarify things, and this might be done at some future time. As all of the ADVANCED D&D system is not written yet, it is a bit early for prognostication, but I envision only minor expansions and some rules amending on a gradual, edition to edition, basis. When youhave a fine product, it is time to let well enough alone. I do not believe that hobbyists and casual players should be continually barraged with new rules, new systems, and new drains on their purses. Certainly there will be changes, for the game is not perfect; but I do not believe the game is so imperfect as to require constant improvement.

-- Gary Gygax, February, 1979.



D, funny you should post that article. I just read that same article myself like 3 months ago. :)


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:45 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:D, funny you should post that article. I just read that same article myself like 3 months ago. :)

This is a great issue, nostalgia-wise.  Also contains a "Sneak Preview" of the DMG.  :D   Wonder if I can sell it as a pre-pub?  :twisted:

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:58 pm 
 

I love reading the My Edition N'ya N'ya Flame Wars.  The passion for gaming is great.

   I think that one reason Goodman is successful is because they cater to that desire for the original, less-slick, less-spindoctored, less professional product we all still love.

   Reading Gary's old columns in DRAGON can be a hoot.  The authoritative voice...the guiding hand for gaming manner...the pronouncements and pompous statements!  Gotta love Gary.

Mark    8)


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:25 pm 
 

I second that. I am just now compiling, bagging and backing a lot of 150 Dragons I won about a year ago. I got issues 60 +/- through 200 +/- and they have been sitting in storage room ever since I got them. Anyway, I am now adding them to my excel list of stuff and making notes on condition and content of each.

The coolest part is reading some that stuff from those early issues. The ads for the 10th anniversary edition are cool, too.

But the thing that grabs your attention is how little the game actually changed in all those years. Then BOOM. 3rd edition.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:28 am 
 

there is so much other cool stuff out there now that it will never be the king it once was imo. i think you will always have the ppl who will stick to whatever edition they like and you will have the rest who are quite happy to change/evolve onto the next version.

eventually, imo, it won't be D&D anymore. it will just be another game in its own right. is it that now? i think it may well be.

4E will no doubt be met well by the ppl who are interested in it and you will find most playing 3E will check it out and prb move to that.

i think the 1E / 2E ppl will just take a look *shrug* and go back to what they know and love dearly.

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:06 pm 
 

The original could benefit from a careful reorganization and expansion to clarify things...


I've been exposed to 3rd edition lately through playing NWN. When I started, I picked up a DMG & PH to understand the rules better.

I used to be a 3rd edition-hater, largely because I'd never tried it!  :oops:

As I learned more of the rules, I found myself nodding in admiration at how the system... just made sense. No more custom experience progression charts for every friggin class. No more 18/% strength. No more screwy backwards Armor Class, when everything else is a positive progression. So easy to learn, so clean.

An analogy I use to compare 1st edition AD&D to 3rd is: The old English style of weights & measures vs. SI (metric). If you're an American, growing up with our ramshackle method of measuring the world, it works for you. (As long as you don't pursue a career in science.) But for anyone having to learn our system for the first time, what a headache!

I started with 1st edition AD&D, so I know the rules. But to teach somebody for the first time... Yeesh! 3rd is so much easier to learn.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:59 pm 
 

Personally I may buy the 4E PHB but that'll be all. In our group of seven only the GM owns the "full set" of 3.5 and 3rd ed books the rest of us just own the PHB as that's all we'll need. Why spend the money on the shiny new stuff when I can buy the good  fun old stuff? :)

  


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:40 pm 
 

Lewisexi wrote:Why spend the money on the shiny new stuff when I can buy the good fun old stuff? :)

On that point, I heartily agree.  We just disagree on to what "the good fun old stuff" refers.  ;)

Personally, I can't even understand a lot the stuff 3E players are discussing.  They seem to have developed their own language.

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:53 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:
Lewisexi wrote:Why spend the money on the shiny new stuff when I can buy the good fun old stuff? :)

On that point, I heartily agree. We just disagree on to what "the good fun old stuff" refers. ;)

Personally, I can't even understand a lot the stuff 3E players are discussing. They seem to have developed their own language.


oh i am happy to listen - am a fair person like that, i even try and follow it, but in all honesty, i totally cannot relate to it at all.

but thats just me - it doesnt make all the other stuff good or bad. i just like what i like and maybe one day, i will try summit different :)

i just got hold of a gamma world box set. gonna try a game of that next.

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:30 pm 
 

I'm just happy to be roleplaying really. One of the guys has apparently found a roleplaying game based around soap operas we're going to try in the new year. Sounds like alot of fun. Like I said before, it's not the system, it's a group of friends and a bit of fun that really counts :)

  
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