The box that held the Orange B3's
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:00 am 
 

a2jeff wrote:Unless Harry is misrepresenting the truth, we know it certainly did hold OB3, based on his statement that he retrieved this from the dumpster.

Erm, did you really mean to say that in public, Jeff? :?

  


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:30 pm 
 

Sure, because the probability of a misrepresentation on this point is virtually zero....nothing controversial in that statement as far as I'm concerned.     :)

  


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:56 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
killjoy32 wrote:so do y'all think there might be more of the OB3's? if so what kinda figure are we looking at?


From what I suspected yes. :) From information that I was given last night it is almost certain now, and the figure that was indicated to me was a lot more than 72. :wink:

Adam Shultz wrote:What info is that?



      Image


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:12 pm 
 

Adam Shultz wrote:
bclarkie wrote:
killjoy32 wrote:so do y'all think there might be more of the OB3's? if so what kinda figure are we looking at?


From what I suspected yes. :) From information that I was given last night it is almost certain now, and the figure that was indicated to me was a lot more than 72. :wink:

Adam Shultz wrote:What info is that?



[ Image ]


Sorry, I was kind of waiting to see if my messenger was going to post here first. Without getting into specific details, here are a few pertinent links from about 9 or 10 years ago on the frp.marketplace site:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.games.frp.marketplace/msg/2899a1f7e9b25a99?hl=en

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.games.frp.marketplace/msg/5cb319b7f145cea4?dmode=source&hl=en

These links kind of confirm my suspicions and would certainly help explain why there does not seem to be much consolidation of sources of OB3. Anyone else have thoughts?


Aside, that is a funny ass jpeg. :lol:


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:10 pm 
 

:D I was trying to employ something to demonstate my patient impatience. But that is good news since I was afraid someone would let the floodgates loose on those items. I have too much wrapped up in mine to see the value plummet from saturation.

I wouldn't wait too long for Matthais to show up.  :wink:


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:18 pm 
 

Adam Shultz wrote::D I was trying to employ something to demonstate my patient impatience. But that is good news since I was afraid someone would let the floodgates loose on those items. I have too much wrapped up in mine to see the value plummet from saturation.

I wouldn't wait too long for Matthais to show up. :wink:


Above and beyond Matthais' disappearing act, dont you think it is possible that at least more than 300 exist out there?


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:20 pm 
 

And granted we are not talking about a huge amount, but certainly a lot more than the 72 as it is rumored. As a matter of point it seems Jeff's box discovery alone would dispell the rumor of 1 case of 72, becuase as he states it is pretty clear, the box he has only has room room for ~36. That to me would mean that we are already drawing on false information. :?


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:30 pm 
 

i think the difference with this item lies with the fact that people quickly realized this was an unusual item with the TSR recall. The few that neglected the recall probably would be inclined to revisit its value over time, no? Perhaps not, but I am thinking at the very least there isn't a motherlode lurking out there anywhere. At least I hope not.  :D


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:35 pm 
 

Where did this urban legend of one case originate, anyways? And didn't Aaron Leeder have a full case that he trickled out bit by bit?


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:12 pm 
 

I have always been a bit concerned with the entire concept that there was an instant recall and nearly every copy was returned.

Remember, we are talking about a time when there was no internet and no cell phones (a scant few rich folk had car phones or bag phones). Face it, communication was not what it is today. Crap, hardly anyone had a freaking computer back then. So I think more were disseminated than we all know. The real question is who, if anyone, had a case or two stashed somewhere and still does today. I highly doubt it.


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:16 pm 
 

I would think that retailers wouldn't want to stock items TSR deemed inappropriate considering the growing concerns of religious zealots, etc.

If you didn't sell the items then you would have to send them back to get your money. I just can't see anyone wanting to eat that expense back then.


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:32 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:So I think more were disseminated than we all know.

That would depend on what base number you're working from! :)

  

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:19 pm 
 

i dunno what all the fuss is anyway :)

its just a module with a different colour cover :D

Al



  


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:38 pm 
 

I agree with Al. Everyone just send me your copies and I will get a good tally together on this worthless item.  :D


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:02 pm 
 

Adam Shultz wrote:I agree with Al. Everyone just send me your copies and I will get a good tally together on this worthless item. :D

Ok, they're on their way.  We were supposed to shred them first, right?   8O  8O  8O  Right?

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:04 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:Where did this urban legend of one case originate, anyways? And didn't Aaron Leeder have a full case that he trickled out bit by bit?


Frank, I was working off the Acaeum listing purely which indicated this, and thought it odd once I got this box because it clearly didn't hold 72 copies.  Not sure the history of the listing information though obviously...

  


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:15 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:
Adam Shultz wrote:I agree with Al. Everyone just send me your copies and I will get a good tally together on this worthless item. :D

Ok, they're on their way. We were supposed to shred them first, right? 8O 8O 8O Right?


Of course, I mean thats what I did with mine too. :twisted:


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:26 pm 
 

I've never doubted that at LEAST 200 copies made it out, and I suspect more. There are just far too many out there.


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:17 pm 
 

Another small point. It is clear that copies got past the first level of distribution. That is the large distributors who supply the individual hobby shops. You can bet that TSR did not ship those modules in those small boxes to distributors. Most likely, the "box" pictured here was packaged in larger crates then split open at the distributor who sent them down to the next level and so on. The problem is that it is extremely unlikely an individual hobby shop would receive a "box" of them.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:14 am 
 

Firstly, as I read the B3 page information again, there's a bit of a mis-statement there.  From the info that I've received over the years, the module never made it out of the TSR warehouse.  Thus, there really wasn't a "recall", just a "destruction order".  I need to change the word "recall" there.

Secondly, I dug up the e-mail I received about four years ago from an ex-TSR staffer.  I left out a line or two which identifies him, since he wished to remain anonymous (he's afraid of possible legal action -- a paranoia probably induced from working for TSR during those crazy 1980's....

Sorry to take a bit in replying. And I saw the updates on your site. The answer to the question about how did one box make it is now somewhat awkward. When I worked in the warehouse and the order came to destroy the B3's, there was no idea that they would become valuable. We were all curious as to what was in there. You see, most of us were aware of Jean Wells and her taste in literature. I can't remember the name of the popular series of fantasy/sci-fi paperbacks at the time, but she was really into them. So, of course, a box of 9044's (72, the smallest bulk quantity in the warehouse) was lifted from the trash later that evening. I won't say who did it, and I certainly don't want to implicate myself. Still, there were several copies floating around, and not in the editorial or creative offices. I had about a dozen at one time.

I read elsewhere the comments on whether the stuff inside was really all that controvertial, and it would be good to remember that there was a LOT of controversy about D&D to at that time in the late 70's and early 80's. Remember that kid in Texas that went down in the steam tunnels, and all the right-wing christian Moral Majority concern? When B3 made it back from the printer and there was this sado-imagery inside, the s**t hit the fan.

It wasn't really Day 1 that this item became valuable. It was later at GenCon in 1982, one of the other warehouse workers sold a copy at the auction for something over $100. I can't remember the exact amount. We were all flabbergasted. You have to understand that was a bold move and certainly could've been risky for that person. They were supposed to be destroyed. And, here several of us were sitting on copies. I actually gave several copies to friends when I was later working at Mayfair Games in exchange for some other game items including Dragon #'s 1-6.

BTW, I left TSR in May of 1983 on "Black Friday". There were about 50 or more of us in the first wave of layoffs. The company had some serious financial difficulties due to the inabilitiy to forecast its sales curve at the peak of popular D&D mania. There were two or three more layoffs over the next few months.


As to the veracity of all of this, I leave that up to future investigation.  I believe the guy is telling the truth, but he (or several people) may be misremembering certain pertinent details.

Personally, I'd guess that two boxes of 72 (or four of 36, or whatever) have survived.  I don't believe the market has seen more than a hundred of these change hands (probably less than 72, actually), and even assuming that another 72 copies have never been out of collectors' hands, that only leaves you with 144.  Certainly, the number of orange B3's that are sitting forgotten in someone's closet is minimal.  These were collector's items from the day they were made public, and known as such.

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