Blackmoor wrote:I find that the latest version simply the best game in the market today.

Blackmoor wrote:The new game gives you more chance to develop your character than previous releases, you can pick skills, feats and character class so that now 2 characters are the same. It is the ultimate in flexibility. The game is incredibly easy to run, there are few grey areas about what you can and cannot do; there are the same opportunities to role-play as in the previous additions. The best part is that when you meet the orc leader you better watch your step, he may also have 10 levels in barbarian to knock you over with, he may even not be evil!!

The new game rocks, one game in my group would prove it to you. The old editions are fun, but leave a lot out and 2nd edition is very imbalanced.

GraysonAC wrote:

I intend run a game with a party consisting solely of human fighters, all equipped identically, and sent on a mission from their leader. We'll assume all their stats are 12, and see whether the players really know how to make a character come alive, and survive. Does nobody else remember when your DM handed you a character sheet to play? Ok, I'm done ranting.

That's the exact kind of argument that, imo, doesn't make any sense. You're not talking about a problem with the rules, you're talking about a problem with players. Roleplaying isn't constrained by rules, it's supported by them. A 3.5 game with that exact scenario would play just fine - if the players were into it, and were good roleplayers. Ditto for 1st/2nd Edition.

The first 3.5 game a buddy of mine ran was a one-off where he handed us all character sheets, and told us the story. We got into the characters he'd created, and had a blast.[/u]

GameSpy wrote:GameSpy: Have you had a chance to play or even look at some of the current Dungeons & Dragons games?

Gygax: I've looked at them, yes, but I'm not really a fan. The new D&D is too rule intensive. It's relegated the Dungeon Master to being an entertainer rather than master of the game. It's done away with the archetypes, focused on nothing but combat and character power, lost the group cooperative aspect, bastardized the class-based system, and resembles a comic-book superheroes game more than a fantasy RPG where a player can play any alignment desired, not just lawful good.

Now, should I tell you what I really think?

Mystaros wrote:The d20 bubble has long since popped. When two or three years ago you had dozens of moderately successful third-tier d20 publishers, and several second-tier companies even, now you have less than a handful. White Wolf has given up on d20, and is only publishing Necromancer Games and Malhavoc products. The publishers that remain successful with d20 (and that is a relative term), are those that developed their own d20 sub-brands, such as the Conan game from Mongoose, Castles & Crusades from Troll Lords, Mutants & Masterminds from Green Ronin, and so forth... I predicted this trend myself back in 2003 in Comics & Games Retailer. These successful brand allow these few publishers to publish a couple of generics now and again, but they remain focused on their specific brands, which have developed the network to maintain regular sales.

Companies that publish "generic" d20 products have pretty much faded away or gone to direct PDF to consumer publishing, which is a far less expensive and less risky venture. Of course, these sales do absolutely no good for the industry overall, having even a deletorious effect on sales as the margins get nibbled at... and game retailers, distributors, and publishers are already operating under extremely thin margins as it is.

But yes, the d20 baloon has definitely burst, and the glut is now passed. Unfortunately, the glut was a major factor in the loss of nearly 25% of game specialty retail stores in 2004 (the other major factor being no major "fad" product to drive sales). This is a trend that continues. As for d20 products themselves, whereas once upon a time a second-tier company could count on pre-order sales of 5,000 to 20,000 units on a product, these days the remaining companies are fortunate to get sales of 500 to 2,000... about 10% on average of what sales levels had been only a few years before.

That has nothing to do, of course, with sales of Dungeons & Dragons products straight from Wizards of the Coast, which continue to do quite well... the masws channels WotC has access to, and the much broader base of sales it has access to on the web, more than making up for the losses from the shrinkage of the retail specialty market. WotC is even expanding and moving into bigger digs this month.

-Is The d20 Glut Over?

MShipley88 wrote:  In the first edition of AD&D, an 11th level fighter would not really be even slightly afraid of a single cloud giant. This was even more true after the publication of Unearthed Arcana sent the rules spinning out of control. After Unearthed Arcana, an 11th level fighter with a +3 sword could be expected to massacre almost every creature in the Monster Manual single-handed, and possibly take almost no damage.

MShipley88 wrote:I suspect that a certain number of those who really liked the first editions of D&D (particularly those who became DM's) enjoyed arguing about the rules. The 3.5 game plays better, longer and has far fewer arguments.

Traveller wrote:I think that about sums it up, although I would also add the lack of consequences to casting spells like raise dead compared to AD&D

as well as the stupidity of creatures having 360 degree vision, due to not having a defined front and back.

There are other things about the system that are annoying, such as the fact you cannot change one rule without having to change every rule that is affected by that change (removing Attacks of Opportunity for a simple example). The game is internally balanced, just as OD&D, BECMI, and AD&D were balanced.

d20 Fantasy is certainly a product of its time, having been created for people weaned on video games. But, as can be seen below, the d20 wave is seen by some to be dying out, with the exception of "sub-brands" based on the d20 SRD. It seems that the market is correcting itself, with games NOT based off of d20 making a resurgance.

I Dmed a 3E campaign for a while, and I tried so hard to force people to roleplay that I nearly burned myself out on gaming.

Log on to Neverwinter Nights and you can see it in action. Count the number of hack and slash servers as opposed to the number of RPG servers

but how many of us were concerned with min/maxing in the old days? I used to spend hours in a town just visiting vendors, taverns, talking to people etc. That phase of the game has vanished.