Full-sized Dwarven Glory
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:42 am 
 

harami2000 wrote:3. Everything in a single digest sized stapled (machine-stapled?) volume.
No more problems with missing pages! :P
- Currently listed as 2nd & 3rd prints, but with no mention of a monochromatic gold cover version (:D).
note aside: Some copies may exist unstapled, per that coverless PotVQ Brian recently picked up (eBay 8710487662, may have been purchased directly from Pete?).

What do y'all think?


Hey David, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the PotVQ that I have now was in fact stapled at one point.  It appears the previous owner removed the cover and just lost it somewhere along the way.  :(


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:47 am 
 

There really isn't so much wrong with a good educated guess on which was first and I would be the first to give the site an A+ for effort. It just isn't a good idea to write it in stone on that basis though but rather keep it open for discussion as more evidence comes to light (eg more copies in teh hands of collectors). Representing similar items as first/second based on circumstantial evidence isn't so bad to do this until it starts to heavily effect the value of the item like this true-first-print hardbound stuff.

There is a significant difference in the PotVQ first editions which have warrented a good look. It turns out the one person who bestowed the print run on them pretty much had it right according to all discussion and evidence to date. But it has taken a good hard look through lots of copies with Pete weighing in as the cherry on the top.

I for one am a big fan of calling blocks of nearly identical items 'editions' rather than specific printings when there are no clear print markings or hard empirical evidence for delineation.

There is nothing significant about the 1st print DG copy represented previously on this site that would suggest it is first outside of the '76 copyright claim which gets thrown out the window again because it has '77 art. Both copies have merits that could suggest its print run but nothing conclusive. Why not just lump them together as the first print editions?

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:35 am 
 

The data regarding the Dwarven Glory pamphlet is as follows:

1.  The Dwarven Glory (two-piece) was purchased, along with a Black Folder POTVQ sans yellow insert, from Aaron Leeder.  (I mention this only because of the concurrent interest in POTVQ).
2.  Measures 8.5 x 5.5 inches
3.  Inside cover says:
Dungeon Master's Kit #2 - The Dwarven Glory
A W E E W A R R I O R S  Production
Produced by Pete & Judy Kerestan
Art Work by Morno
Copyright 1976
4.  17 pages, including page 17 which is printed directly on the inside rear cover.  Some page numbers are typed while others are hand-written.
5.  Page 1 is titled Section "B", with a brief description following:
"This section once served as a meeting area for visitors.  Its taverns once echoed with joyful frivolities, but now its inhabitants drink with sombre mein."  A line divides this decription from the room descriptions which follow.
6.  There is no table of contents, just the following sections in this order:
Section B, rooms 1-9
Section C, rooms 1-15
Section H, rooms 1-12
Section E, rooms 1-6
Section F, 1-8
Section G, 1-6
Section D, 16-23

The sections match with the maps perfectly.

As for what this means, I don't know, but the map booklet does exist, and it came with the full-size Dwarven Glory, tucked in the back.  Someone needs to ask the people who produced it.  It may be a separate item put out by the company, or part of a deluxe issue of DG, or, painfully for several, how DG was issued by the company.  Outsiders like us are not well-equipped to make that determination.  I'll try to get an inside cover image up today.  The Wee Warrior printing odyssey continues.

Perhaps a WEEkend Conference is in our future . . .

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:43 am 
 

The contents sections and numbers in TFMs data match all in my digest third printing. However, they seemed to squeeze everything into 10 pages as opposed to 17. Also, the booklet pages are clearly numbered in the digest third.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:08 am 
 

tfm wrote:4. 17 pages, including page 17 which is printed directly on the inside rear cover. Some page numbers are typed while others are hand-written.


Interesting. Which are typed and which are hand-written? Are they opposing pages?

Adam: thanks for the scans. Is the hex grid a slightly lighter shade of black or gray, as it appears to be in the scan?

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:24 am 
 

The plain hex page is of similar tone. The scan I posted is a bit on the weak side as far as file goes. I guess I have a bad habit of lowering the res too much.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:26 am 
 

Good question. The typed page numbers (the pages that have them) are all in the upper, right hand corner. There are no typed page numbers in the upper left-hand corners. It does look funky because of the way it's bound. Sometimes the page number appears on the side, sometimes next to the spine. The handwrtten numbers, when present, occur on the upper left-hand corner of the page.

The orientation of the type-written page numbers suggests that, originally, the author had conceived of either a booklet with single-sided pages, or a collection of unbound pages.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:50 am 
 

Adam Shultz wrote:The plain hex page is of similar tone. The scan I posted is a bit on the weak side as far as file goes. I guess I have a bad habit of lowering the res too much.


Sorry, what I meant was, on the first scan you posted, is the hex grid a lighter shade or tone of black/gray than the overlying map details?

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:06 am 
 

I gotcha now. Lettme look in the morning with some daylight.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:08 am 
 

In my copy, the hex color matches the surrounding material, differing from the black folder POTVQ grey grid which does not match the surrounding material.

On a personal note, the full-size DG looks like a much better production effort than the black folder POTVQ.  There are no toner lines at all in the DG.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:57 am 
 

tfm wrote:In my copy, the hex color matches the surrounding material, differing from the black folder POTVQ grey grid which does not match the surrounding material.

On a personal note, the full-size DG looks like a much better production effort than the black folder POTVQ. There are no toner lines at all in the DG.


Maybe a hint in there at the timing of a switch in the printing process.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:16 pm 
 

I got ya now. Like tfm's my copy's grid matches the surrounding details. Perhaps this scan shows it a bit more.

My black folder PotVQ is also two toned as suggested by tfm. Could someone describe to me briefly what the difference is in terms of printing quality. I kinda like the look of the PotVQs a bit more as far as use might go.

Image

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:35 pm 
 

I came across something today, one those curious coincidences that probably doesn't mean anything, but is interesting nonetheless.  I've been reading through my 1st print OD&D stuff and guess what I saw in the maps in Blackmoor--black map on grey grid.  It doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it does speak to a specific kind of printing process that was in use at the time.  Perhaps POTVQ (black folder) was printed with the same or similar process, thus providing a production window.  Any thoughts about that?  There must be other maps out there for other games that mimic the same effect--black map on a grey grid.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:33 am 
 

Here's the scan from the inside cover of the Room Key for The Dwarven Glory (full size).  Please disregard any color variations or shading as they resulted from my unwillingness to flatten out the crisp spine on the scanner tray.

Image

  


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:00 am 
 

Great.  Could you post a pic/scan of one of the hand-numbered pages?

  


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:19 pm 
 

The Tasteless Tavern of Ollie teh Half-Orc


:lol: I love that.

The room descriptions seem to identically match the 3rd print digest. They are just a much more comfortable spacing than it's later counterpart. Hence, more pages.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:40 pm 
 

Here's the image of some handwritten page numbers.  As before, please disregard any shading or discoloration in the image.

Image

I'm just guessing, but I bet the writer was a lefty.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:51 am 
 

tfm wrote:Here's the image of some handwritten page numbers. As before, please disregard any shading or discoloration in the image.

I'm just guessing, but I bet the writer was a lefty.


Thanks, tfm.

Is that the center of the booklet?  If so what you've got there is a sheet of paper typed on both sides, folded in half, with typed page numbers on one side and hand-printed page numbers on the reverse side.  If that's not the center of the booklet, then there doesn't appear to be a pattern to which sides of the printed sheet have hand-printed vs. typed page numbers, but of course it's very hard to tell without having the booklet in my hands.  Nonetheless, it's quite interesting.

  
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