S4 - grodog needs help with some new maps
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Post Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:53 am 
 

jkason in the other S4 thread wrote:Anyway - Back to the discussion at hand.




Well, since discussion at hand began with S4, I propose to move it back on topic (though another topic so as not to further dilute btb's original subject): I recently posted some maps that I drew after combing through S4 these many years, and I'm soliciting some feedback, in particular what else I could do to draw the maps more accurately.



Here's what I posted to Greytalk recently about this query:



grodog on Greytalk and various other GH boards wrote:
Last weekend, I finally sat down to draw maps that show how I think the dungeon level elements of S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth fit together as a whole---the entrances, exits, additional hinted-at levels, sinkholes, underground streams, and what-not of the Lesser Caverns and the Greater Caverns. (I've also been working on this page in general over the past two months or so, including adding comprisons between the 1976 Tsojconth tournament version and the 1982 module, among other things).



I posted a copy of the maps to my site in .pdf format at http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/temp/S4-maps.pdf

and they're also linked in from my S4 page at

http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_s4.html



Please check the maps out (the file's about 2.5 MB), and give me some feedback on them. In particular, I'm looking for some guidance from those of you who are better cartographers than me on how to orient the maps so that I can correctly identify directions that will be consistent with how I display the levels themselves and their relationships to one another. While I still want the the maps to communicate as much spatial information as possible to their readers, and I'm sure that the way that I've drawn the maps now is correct from a distance-from-one-element-to-another POV (the space between the Lesser and Greater Caverns, etc.), I am also quite sure that the directions are munged. For example, I think the Greater Caverns should be pivoted relative the Lesser Caverns (since you enter the GC from the W, not from the N), and the umber hulk tunnels exit on the north face of the mountain, whereas the Great Cavern corridor exits on the west. I'm not sure if it's really possible to show those kinds of relationships without a 3-D map???



If it would help with helping me, I can scan and post my working notes, which show how I distilled the distances, depths, etc. from the module descriptions. (For those paying very close attention at home, I intentionally extended the Lesser Caverns D River Exit waterfall to 450' from 100', since the original distance in the tourney was 450' and that seems more consistent to me with the "distant roaring" that PCs would hear as they approach the edge of the map---I think if that waterfall was only 100' away, it would be LOT louder!).



I'm also looking for some general input on the format, layout, etc. on the maps: are they clear, do they provide useful info, etc.? I'll eventually get around to buidling the underwater lake dungeon level---it may well be where I place Iggwilv's living quarters, etc. (assuming that I don't just connect them via gates to the Lost Caverns and have them very much elsewhere, perhaps the Sea of Dust area...).





So, please check the maps out, and provide me with some ideas about how to better redraw them, and any other thoughts that cross your mind.


Allan Grohe ([email protected])
Greyhawk, grodog Style

Editor and Project Manager, Black Blade Publishing
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:36 am 
 

Gro, I've actually been thinking a lot about S4 lately and how it could be expanded (there are so many possibilities with this module).





Anyway, one way to show spatial relationships is with a perspective/3-D map. I went ahead and sketched out a VERY basic map when I had a few spare minutes during my daughter's nap.



This would be "viewing" the map from the WEST. It shows the Lesser Caverns, the river exit and waterfall (with a lower level at the lake) and the stairs down to the Greater Caverns. (stairs are obviously way out of proportion).



Of course, you could spend a lot of time and make this much nicer. I wanted to spend some time and post a much more detailed map, but I doubt I will get around to it anytime soon. This should suffice to get my idea across.



Image


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Grandstanding Collector

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Post Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:04 am 
 

Thanks btb---

Can you please change the image back to you other one?  I didn't save your sketch at the time....


Allan Grohe ([email protected])
Greyhawk, grodog Style

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Post Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:11 pm 
 

Sorry, I guess I named that Middle-Earth map the same name and overwrote it.

I read this post early this morning and found myself at the Dollar Store getting some Halloween supplies. I noticed some Poster board and colored pencils and thought I would make a somewhat nicer version. (of course, I am no talented artist/map-maker . . . still, it might give you some ideas of what could be done).


And a few close-up pics:

Image






http://beyondthebreach.acaeum.com/images/tsojcanthmap2big.jpg

http://beyondthebreach.acaeum.com/images/tsojcanthmap2.jpg


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:43 pm 
 

Thanks muchly on both counts! :D :D


Allan Grohe ([email protected])
Greyhawk, grodog Style

Editor and Project Manager, Black Blade Publishing
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