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The Beholder Fanzine
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invincibleoverlord
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:02 pm

I got to thinking about the different colored covers and prices on The Beholder Fanzine. One thing puzzled me. On all three of the double copies I have with different colors and prices (issues 6, 15, and 20); the lower price is also the cost of each issue via the subscription solicited on the back cover of either priced copy. The subscription price does not coincide with the higher priced copy; it instead matches cost with the less expensive version.

I think that the differences may be a matter of subscription price vs. shop sold copiesâ€¦ My reasoning being wouldn't the subscription price change as well on the higher priced version if this was now the "price" of each zine?

Also after reading all of the editorials on the inside cover's it states in several issues about shops ordering copies. So wouldn't the newsstand price be higher than the subscription cost?

Thoughts?

Edit- Oh, one more thing. Ian I'm sorry I wasn't making a mean face to really be mean - I was just razzing, mostly myself :lol:

IO wrote:

BTW, I tried to offset the huge chunk of change spent by trying to snipe those Autoduel Quarterly's for a couple of bucks, but rpg auctions bumped me up to $42 bucks in the last seconds!

Sorry man

"Its either a wand to cast Bigby's Hand spells or a +3 backscratcher. We're not sure which."

beasterbrook
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:04 am

invincibleoverlord wrote:I got to thinking about the different colored covers and prices on The Beholder Fanzine. One thing puzzled me. On all three of the double copies I have with different colors and prices (issues 6, 15, and 20); the lower price is also the cost of each issue via the subscription solicited on the back cover of either priced copy. The subscription price does not coincide with the higher priced copy; it instead matches cost with the less expensive version.

I think that the differences may be a matter of subscription price vs. shop sold copiesâ€¦ My reasoning being wouldn't the subscription price change as well on the higher priced version if this was now the "price" of each zine?

No, The Beholder was reprinted at various times, so the higher the cover price the later the reprinting, they changed the price on the cover but left all the insides the same...

Brette:)

killjoy32
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:34 am

so here would be a good place where you can tell me:

do they go to issue #25 and no further

if i somehow manage to get all 25, is there anything else i need to try and collect that is connected to these?

david and john made comments here, and so i just wanted to clarify, so i could then keep a lookout for it/them

Al

Everyone is entitled to my opinion

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MDS 2008 - Stage 6 - 1km from the finish...some thoughts - YouTube

killjoy32
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:42 am

for anyone who wants to start trying to figure out print runs, here is the information on the ones that i have:

#16 - cant clarify right now as ian has it for the moment

#17 - green cover - 45p

#18 - green cover - 45p

#19 - blue cover - 45p

#20 - sorta orange/peach cover (daughters words) - 45p

#21 - blue cover - 45p

#22 - blue cover - 50p

#23 - green cover - 50p

#24 - pink cover - 50p

#25 - orange/peach cover - 50p *note: at the bottom of the front-cover- final issue before take-over*

would like to know more about that.

so there is what i have.

still would like #1-15

Everyone is entitled to my opinion

Alan Silcock - Marathon Des Sables
MDS 2008 - Stage 6 - 1km from the finish...some thoughts - YouTube

beasterbrook
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:00 am

26 is the final issue I believe (I have it). The editor passed the torch I believe at issue 25..might have been (re)named The New Beholder, but don't quote me on it. I do remember issue 26 talking about the change over, also in 25 i believe that you will find that the ed talks about you can order all the back issues...

You also might have a closer look at 2 of em for me as well, my issues of 21 & 22 have the same contents but different covers, I'm assuming that one of mine is a mistake, but at the moment I don't know which one;)

Brette:)

killjoy32
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:17 am

beasterbrook wrote:
You also might have a closer look at 2 of em for me as well, my issues of 21 & 22 have the same contents but different covers, I'm assuming that one of mine is a mistake, but at the moment I don't know which one;)

Brette:)

right brette here you go, hope these help:

Beholder # 21 cover:

and its contents page:

Beholder # 22 cover:

and its contents page:

hope these help chummer

Everyone is entitled to my opinion

Alan Silcock - Marathon Des Sables
MDS 2008 - Stage 6 - 1km from the finish...some thoughts - YouTube

invincibleoverlord
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:12 pm

Beasterbrook wrote:

No, The Beholder was reprinted at various times, so the higher the cover price the later the reprinting, they changed the price on the cover but left all the insides the same...

Yes, the insides are the same, but the subscription is on the back coverâ€¦ i.e. the same side of paper when laid flat with the front cover.

So wouldn't you also change the subscription cost on the "reprint" -when altering the cover price; if this was now the price of the zine? This pattern is consistent on all three doubles I have 6, 15, and 20. The higher price does not match subscription cost; rather it (the subscription cost) matches the lower cover priced issue.

Also in the editorials it never states how much back issues cost, but are regularly mentioned. I assuming they are priced at the subscription cost per issue as stated on the back covers. I also read in the editorials that ordering back issues didn't always get you "reprints", some were "surplus subscription stock", and others returned "shop orders".

Thoughts?

"Its either a wand to cast Bigby's Hand spells or a +3 backscratcher. We're not sure which."

killjoy32
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:59 pm

invincibleoverlord wrote:Thoughts?

they are all rubbish - you really don't want or need them - they are just not worthy of your supreme collection.

you may as well just let me have them mike

Everyone is entitled to my opinion

Alan Silcock - Marathon Des Sables
MDS 2008 - Stage 6 - 1km from the finish...some thoughts - YouTube

harami2000
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:27 pm

killjoy32 wrote:
invincibleoverlord wrote:Thoughts?

they are all rubbish - you really don't want or need them - they are just not worthy of your supreme collection.

you may as well just let me have them mike

harami2000
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:24 pm

@ Brette: Yup, as noted by Al the contents should be as listed on the inside cover unless they somehow messed that up, too! (unlikely...).

Probably happened when they were running off a batch of reprints. Would be interested to know what cover colors/prices you have on #21 & #22, just in case...

killjoy32 wrote:
beasterbrook wrote:
You also might have a closer look at 2 of em for me as well, my issues of 21 & 22 have the same contents but different covers, I'm assuming that one of mine is a mistake, but at the moment I don't know which one;)

Brette:)

right brette here you go, hope these help:

Beholder # 22 cover:

[ Image ]

Ah, Phil Alexander cover.

A direct link back to the granddaddy of the UK 'zine style, Underworld Oracle.

(Mike, I already told you that you picked up the cream-of-the-crop from Mike <mdr003>'s auctions

(technical note: UO reprints are clearly labeled on the cover in the same manner adopted by WD shortly after. IIRC Mike's were "originals").

At the time UO launched the only real contenders to take things forward in the UK were News from Bree, Owl & Weasel and Trollcrusher.

NFB wasn't coherent enough to do so (IMO) and TC's APA-style never quite pulled in the content (even with the high psionic ladybird quotient

).

Underworld Oracle fitted snugly into the niche Owl & Weasel might've ended up in had it not metamorphosed into White Dwarf at the same time.

Thereafter there were a few abortive attempts to get fanzines on a strong footing until TBH came along. Within a year or so of that there were a whole string of other long(ish) running titles (Dragonlords, Stormlord, Wyrn's Claw, Aerial Servant, Alien Star, Necromancer, etc.) filling out into various niches.

I don't think Guy & Mike at TBH really needed to say "support us, not the others" as they did on several occasions, but that's one of the very few things I'd count as negative in what they did...

(And many of them certainly kept Ian Livingstone & co. on their toes...

)

harami2000
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:41 pm

invincibleoverlord wrote:I'm hopping since this lot starts with #1 that they are all I guess what you'd call "first prints". I'll let you guys know comparisons when they arrive.

Mike, the one's you picked up are:

1 - 60p Pink

2 - 50p Light Green

3 - 50p Dark Green

4 - 50p Red

5 - 50p Dark Green

6 - 50p Orange

7 - 50p Dark Green

8 - 50p Orange

9 - 50p Dark Green

10 - 50p Orange

11 - 50p Orange

12 - 50p Yellow

13 - 50p Orange

14 - 50p Dark Green

15 - 50p Orange

16 - missing

17 - 60p Dark Pink

18 - 60p Dark Pink

19 - 60p Dark Pink

20 - 60p Dark Pink

21 - 60p Light Green

22 - 60p Pink

23 - 50p Dark Green

24 - 50p Pink

25 - 60p Pink

(Thanks to Malcolm (the seller) for having a look).

From that, I'd guess he never bought any of them on subscription.

Possibly picked up a few at once (event or shop) and then "[bought] most of the early ones in one go as back issues" as stated before.

Looking at those prices/colors is an interesting snapshot of the state-of-play of reprints available (mid/late?) 1981.

Might have to question him further and see whether he remembers more...

Theleb
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:49 pm

I have a Beholder 26 and 27, so perhaps 27 is the last issue then?

invincibleoverlord
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:26 pm

killjoy32 wrote:

they are all rubbish - you really don't want or need them - they are just not worthy of your supreme collection.

you may as well just let me have them mike

BTWâ€¦Did you get my PM?

Harami wrote:

(Thanks to Malcolm (the seller) for having a look).

From that, I'd guess he never bought any of them on subscription.

Possibly picked up a few at once (event or shop) and then "[bought] most of the early ones in one go as back issues" as stated before.

Looking at those prices/colors is an interesting snapshot of the state-of-play of reprints available (mid/late?) 1981.

Might have to question him further and see whether he remembers more...

Cool, here's what I have now.

3 -- 40p dark Green

4 -- 40p yellow

5 -- 60p light green

6 -- 40p yellow

6 -- 60p pink

7 -- 40p orange

11 -- 45p orange

12 -- 45p green

13 -- 55p yellow

14 -- 45p orange

15 -- 45p dark green

15 -- 60p pink

16 -- 55p light blue

17 -- 45p dark green

18 -- 45p dark green

20 -- 45p orange

20 -- 55p yellow

24 -- 50p purple

25 -- 60p pink

David; from your memory were the "shop" copies higher priced than the subscription prices?

"Its either a wand to cast Bigby's Hand spells or a +3 backscratcher. We're not sure which."

killjoy32
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Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:07 am

invincibleoverlord wrote:
BTWâ€¦Did you get my PM?

nope

i just won an underworld oracle issue # 5 for about £5.50 or so - quite pleased with that....got a trollcrusher # 21 too for a few £ - very happy with them...

my fanzine collection is nicely expanding now!

Al

Everyone is entitled to my opinion

Alan Silcock - Marathon Des Sables
MDS 2008 - Stage 6 - 1km from the finish...some thoughts - YouTube

harami2000
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:21 pm

killjoy32 wrote:i just won an underworld oracle issue # 5

*g*. I noticed, Al. Good seller (original owner), too.

Have fun in the "Halls of Testing".

harami2000
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:55 pm

invincibleoverlord wrote:Cool, here's what I have now.

3 -- 40p dark Green

4 -- 40p yellow

5 -- 60p light green

6 -- 40p yellow

...

Interesting mixed bunch there, Mike. Two separate purchases?

You have quite a few first prints...

invincibleoverlord wrote:David; from your memory were the "shop" copies higher priced than the subscription prices?

*points back to Formerly laughable item descriptions â€¢ Page 36 â€¢ Collecting General â€¢ The Acaeum. I didn't pay more than the cover price.

beasterbrook wrote:No, The Beholder was reprinted at various times, so the higher the cover price the later the reprinting, they changed the price on the cover but left all the insides the same...

With the exception of those reprints that have the same cover price, Brette is spot-on. And most of those will be distinguishable by the color of the cover, I suspect (if not #1).

Browsing the editorials for #21 & #22 (scans above), one might get the impression the reprints were carried out after the run was complete. However, that only applies to the later reprints. Towards the end I'm sure Guy and Mike must've been in top gear just to stay on schedule for the regular issues.

Many earlier issues had already been reprinted, some several times.

When your copy arrives, check out the editorial of #8 where it states "25 & 27 copies remaining of the second reprints of The Beholder 1 & 2 respectively".

The reprints continued beyond 1981, afaik; the last ones having cover prices at, or approaching, £1.

Major Axe
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:48 pm

Hi everyone - haven't been on the site for ages - too much normal life stuff to do!!! I live in England, and bought loads of fanzines in the late 70s - so I collected (and still have) the Beholder and others - including Underworld Oracle.

Not sure if you know this, but the Beholder finished with issue #29, and there was a special supplement "The Beholder Supplement - Glossary Of Magic". My understanding is that the reason for the different coloured covers was purely that when the printer ran out of a particular coloured card, he moved onto another!

As far as Underworld Oracle goes, it reached issue #7 before folding. The last issue (of which I believe there was a print run of only 50) was A4 size instead of A5, and has a colour cover.

If anyone wants any more info about English fanzines just drop me a line.

harami2000
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:31 pm

Major Axe wrote:As far as Underworld Oracle goes, it reached issue #7 before folding. The last issue (of which I believe there was a print run of only 50) was A4 size instead of A5, and has a colour cover.

If anyone wants any more info about English fanzines just drop me a line.

And possibly even 'zines from other parts of the UK, too...

Hiya!

Yup, UO #7 is rare. The delay between #6 and #7 was so long that GW had refunded payments for those orders they'd received. When it was eventually printed, it may have been on sale at Dragonmeet 2 (Sept. '79) according to Guy Duke in TBH #8. Direct subs might still have been active and it was also available at Edinburgh "Games Gallery" (for obvious reasons).

Do you have any copies and, if so, how did you obtain yours?

*

Had thought a bit more than 50, but certainly way down towards that level. Pity...

beasterbrook
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:56 pm

harami2000 wrote:
Major Axe wrote:As far as Underworld Oracle goes, it reached issue #7 before folding. The last issue (of which I believe there was a print run of only 50) was A4 size instead of A5, and has a colour cover.

If anyone wants any more info about English fanzines just drop me a line.

And possibly even 'zines from other parts of the UK, too...

Hiya!

Yup, UO #7 is rare. The delay between #6 and #7 was so long that GW had refunded payments for those orders they'd received. When it was eventually printed, it may have been on sale at Dragonmeet 2 (Sept. '79) according to Guy Duke in TBH #8. Direct subs might still have been active and it was also available at Edinburgh "Games Gallery" (for obvious reasons).

Do you have any copies and, if so, how did you obtain yours?

*

Had thought a bit more than 50, but certainly way down towards that level. Pity...

I have all 7 issues.. looks like I can stop looking for more of these at least;)

Brette:)

harami2000
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:01 pm

beasterbrook wrote:I have all 7 issues.. looks like I can stop looking for more of these at least;)

Brette:)

Since you have the WD reprints, do you have all the UO reprints too, Brette?

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