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True 1st Player's Handbook
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Poll: Do you own a T1st PHB?

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bombadil
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:29 pm

I'm interested in how rare the True 1st PHB is. Do you have one, or know of one that's sold recently on ebay? Any other comments on its rarity?

Ralf Toth
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:35 pm

I have voted "no". I have a first printing with orange flypapers. According to Acaeum the white flypapers are the "true" 1st printing. I just cannot see why the white flypaper version can be determined as the earlier printing of the two. Thus, I won't start searching for a "true" first printing. Who knows, maybe the "true first" and the "first" printing were done in a single batch, and when they were out of white flypaper, they decided to us the orange for the rest (or vice versa)? :wink: :D

- "When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro."

Hunter S. Thompson (July 18, 1937 - Feb 20, 2005)

bombadil
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:38 pm

Precisely, and one of my reasons for starting this discussion. How was the print order decided in the first place?

bclarkie
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:44 pm

afoolandhis$ wrote:Precisely, and one of my reasons for starting this discussion. How was the print order decided in the first place?

The most recent 1st print PHBs that I can remember was the Tim Jardini one that Stormber sold back in February, and the I believe, although I am not 100% sure, that Maudibb sold one back around April or so. There was some research done on this back in the "early" days of the forum and the general conclusion was that the T1st was the one with the White Flypapers. I also beleive that that was pretty much confirmed based on the fact that the Tim Jardini PHB was actually the 1st PHB ever sold. Give me a minute or 2 and I will also dig up the old threads discussing this.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

bombadil
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:46 pm

Brian, did you vote "yes"?

bclarkie
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:50 pm

afoolandhis$ wrote:Brian, did you vote "yes"?

Nope, I imagine that would be our friend I/O who just came on the forum.

*<still digs>*

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

bclarkie
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:55 pm

For reference, here are the 2 links that I was able to locate in reference to the T1st PHB:

First Print PLAYERS HANDBOOK w/ WHITE Flyleaf ! â€¢ Collecting General â€¢ The Acaeum

1st print Players Handbook- to be True or not True â€¢ Collecting Appraisal â€¢ The Acaeum

There maybe one other, but I only did a quick check. :wink:

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

deimos3428
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:56 pm

bclarkie wrote:
afoolandhis$ wrote:Precisely, and one of my reasons for starting this discussion. How was the print order decided in the first place?

The most recent 1st print PHBs that I can remember was the Tim Jardini one that Stormber sold back in February, and the I believe, although I am not 100% sure, that Maudib sold one back around April or so. There was some research done on this back in the "early" days of the forum and the general conclusion was that the T1st was the one with the White Flypapers. I also beleive that that was pretty much confirmed based on the fact that the Tim Jardini PHB was actually the 1st PHB ever sold. Give a minute or 2 and I will also dig up the old thread discussing this.

I don't have one, but it seems likely that the white flyleaf version be the T1st, as the 2nd/3rd printings continue the orange flyleaf.

That's hardly conclusive, but it makes some sense -- at some far later date they flipped back to white. (Changing the color twice is presumably more likely than changing it 3 times.) What would be useful is if someone had both versions of the first, and could locate a printing difference beyond the dubious flyleaf color.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:58 pm

Is there any notable difference in the content of the True 1st PHB (a la D&D and Cthulhu) or is it just a completist thing?

This week I've been mostly eating . . . minestrone soup.

bombadil
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:01 pm

deimos3428 wrote:What would be useful is if someone had both versions of the first, and could locate a printing difference beyond the dubious flyleaf color.

That's one thing I'd like to get at.

bclarkie
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:02 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:Is there any notable difference in the content of the True 1st PHB (a la D&D and Cthulhu) or is it just a completist thing?

From what I gather, there is no other discernable difference in the 2, but I imagine when either Foul, I/O, Stormber or Chromaticknight come around they probably can shed a little more light on it than that. :)

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

invincibleoverlord
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:46 pm

I have found no differences in the text between the quoted "True First" and the "First" printing. However; in addition to the different quoted colored endpapers and flyleaves, they also have a different type of stitching. Also the "First" has an additional white book-fabric below the orange paper, while the "True First" does not.

The "True First" is on the left and "First" on the right. Notice also that a "First" has a wider binding than a "True First".

Here's a top view of the stitching. "True 1st" left - "First" right

Here's a view of the binding. Notice the white book-fabric below the orange flyleaf. The "True First" does not have this.

Hope this helps Stephen.

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bombadil
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:49 pm

Not only does it help, but it also reinforces my impression that you have one HELL of a collection. Look at those babies!

deimos3428
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:03 pm

Couple of further research points that might help:

1. It's a long shot, but is there any difference in the stitch spacing (similar to the DMGs)?

2. Could be that I'm confused, but is that a black stitch fabric on the quoted T1st? I've only seen the red-yellow and white before, a third color would probably be earlier. :?:

It's clear that I need to "pick up" several copies and meticulously go through them...so if you see any on eBay cheap, don't bid. It's...uh...research. :twisted:

invincibleoverlord
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:09 pm

Correction.

The "True First" does have the book-fabric. It's part of the binding under the flyleaf. In the "True First" the white flyleaf is also one piece of paper. It is glued to the inside cover and loose on the other side. The "First" has two diffrent orange pieces of paper. One is glued to the inside cover, and another as the first page in the binding.

"Its either a wand to cast Bigby's Hand spells or a +3 backscratcher. We're not sure which."

bombadil
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:08 pm

It's curious that the striped fabric was used for the spine inlay in the 1st print MM (the first printing of the first hardcover AD&D manual ever produced), the true 1st DMG, and what we're calling the 1st print PHB, but not in the true 1st PHB.

As well, the 1st print MM, true 1st DMG, and 1st print PHB all have the colored endpapers in common, while the true 1st PHB has white endpapers.

Any thoughts?

bclarkie
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:39 pm

afoolandhis$ wrote:Any thoughts?

2 things come to my mind as possibilities:

1) Being that the MM was first, maybe they were experimenting or testing a different binding set(less expensive?) after they first produced the Monster Manual. Taking a closer look at the 2nd print MM might help shed some light there being that it was released only 1 month after the 1st print PHB. Obviously the fly/end papers are not white, but maybe the spine inlay is the same.

2) There was possibly a specially produced "employees only" book that they created, kind of like a finished product prepublication? It is not likely, but it is possible just the same.

It is tough to tell. Unfortunately the one person who can answer that question, EGG, does not post here.

I would imagine that he if anyone would be able to explain that. Maybe Allan could help us out there or possibly Frank. :wink:

Anyone else have thoughts?

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

bbarsh
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:37 am

This is one the glaring holes in my collection. I don't have a first printing of any of the big three, true or otherwise. They are on my "need to get to this" list, though. I do have early printing of each - near minty - and that has kept me happy. But there is a small voice that whispers...get the first...get the first...

And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

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deimos3428
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:47 am

bbarsh wrote:But there is a small voice that whispers...get the first...get the first...

Sorry that was me.

Get the first...

cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&a ... T&rd=1

deimos3428
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:55 am

bclarkie wrote:
afoolandhis$ wrote:Any thoughts?

2 things come to my mind as possibilities:

1) Being that the MM was first, maybe they were experimenting or testing a different binding set(less expensive?) after they first produced the Monster Manual. Taking a closer look at the 2nd print MM might help shed some light there being that it was released only 1 month after the 1st print PHB. Obviously the fly/end papers are not white, but maybe the spine inlay is the same.

Spine inlay on all MMs up until the 3rd is red-yellow, as is the 3rd PHB (and presumably the 2nd, it's still in the mail

). So we've got a continuous theme of red-yellow spine inlay and colored flyleafs from 1977 to Jan 1979, longer if you count the DMG as well. The one exception is the T1st PHB...I'm beginning to think its a "special" copy as well -- how many are known to exist?

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