Lost Caverns of Tsojconth Auction.
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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:14 pm 
 

GraysonAC wrote:Running a letter series adventure right from the module would involve a lot of on-your-feet thinking up of room descriptions, with some modules, coming up with entire areas on the fly. That was eliminated in 3rd, with the de facto standard being to have full text-box descriptions for each area.




Just about every 1st edition module that I own has an area descritption for almost every area.   :?  Granted it doesnt there include a books worth of material, but then again that is why I much prefer it.


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:31 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
Just about every 1st edition module that I own has an area descritption for almost every area.  :? Granted it doesnt there include a books worth of material, but then again that is why I much prefer it.




I grabbed a handful of the letter series books from my shelf to check.



A2 has full descriptions, and I'd say is probably better than most 3rd modules in most regards.

C5 has very few descriptions. Brief notes about what you'll find in the area, but you'll be making up the details on the spot.

I8 has very few descriptions. Lots and lots of areas with almost no details provided :(

Q1 has very few descriptions. Lots of good details about what you'll find, but again, you'll be making up details and coming up with "boxed" text on the fly.

S4 has most areas described. Info on all, but many areas where the info provided is just the monsters there and what they do.



1.5 outta 5, as a random sampling. I'm sure some folks would prefer not to be spoon-fed boxed text, but for my group, I'd rather have detail about an area than have to make it up (and then try to remember it) as I go along. It's a lot harder to come up with innocuous details on the fly than it is interesting monster encounters, imo ;)

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:33 pm 
 

GraysonAC wrote:


Q1 has very few descriptions. Lots of good details about what you'll find, but again, you'll be making up details and coming up with "boxed" text on the fly.





this is why i like judges guild stuff so much. gives you the bare essentials then you, the DM, makes it a good game by making the scenario out of the detail given.



i played Q1 three times in all, with three different DM's and i DM'd it once myself. every game was different, yet all the details were the same.



THAT is why i like it. cos everything is interpreted by the individual, instead of the "spoon fed" stuff that most of the new stuff is.



for me, there never will be a comparison, the old stuff will always beat it hands down.



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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:41 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
THAT is why i like it. cos everything is interpreted by the individual, instead of the "spoon fed" stuff that most of the new stuff is.



for me, there never will be a comparison, the old stuff will always beat it hands down.



Al




To each their own, for sure :)  Personally, I prefer to do entirely custom adventures. I've used modules in the past, and found that they very rarely account for the crazy crap my player's get up to, heh. Then again, I can't stand the "monster-in-a-room-guarding-a-chest" syndrome that was popular back then. Most of the adventures I run are plot-driven, rather than area-driven. Not a lot of hacking through dungeons in my games (although enough to keep the bloodier-minded players happy :lol:)

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:29 pm 
 

GraysonAC wrote:
To each their own, for sure :) Personally, I prefer to do entirely custom adventures. I've used modules in the past, and found that they very rarely account for the crazy crap my player's get up to, heh. Then again, I can't stand the "monster-in-a-room-guarding-a-chest" syndrome that was popular back then. Most of the adventures I run are plot-driven, rather than area-driven. Not a lot of hacking through dungeons in my games (although enough to keep the bloodier-minded players happy :lol:)




hehehehe :)



mind you, when i DM'd Q1, i swapped everything around, so nobody playing could figure out wtf was going on (and they had all played the previous 3 times)....was fun and then some watching them walk straight into things when they "knew" it would be ok :D



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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:34 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
GraysonAC wrote:Running a letter series adventure right from the module would involve a lot of on-your-feet thinking up of room descriptions, with some modules, coming up with entire areas on the fly. That was eliminated in 3rd, with the de facto standard being to have full text-box descriptions for each area.




Just about every 1st edition module that I own has an area descritption for almost every area.  :? Granted it doesnt there include a books worth of material, but then again that is why I much prefer it.




   "Almost" every area.  I always have wondered why a writer would include a room with no description.  :cry:  



   "37 - This room is empty.  There is nothing of interest here."  :evil:



   Too true...nothing of interest at all.  Why not invent something to find in that room, even if it is only grafitti?  :x



    Judges Guild modules were often incomplete or childish...which...perversely...is why I like them.   :twisted:   They were not afraid to try new ideas and seem to have pushed ideas through faster than TSR.  Of course, that may be why some of their modules are astoundingly empty...and why a module like Demons of Dundurn seems to have had a page or two left out.   :?



    I find newer modules to be too restrictive in setting.  Instead of just giving me a few great maps (which are not that much harder to draw than bad maps) and a storyline, the writer too often wants to trap me in his world.  Major story components are too closely tied to a particular fantasy setting.  I have to somehow explain how an entire elven civilization rose and fell 3000 years ago, and why everyone now needs the fabled _______ of _______ in order to save the world.  Could I just have a pissed off ogre instead?  How about G-1?  Oh yeah!   8)


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:07 am 
 

With regards to whether or not people will be collecting stuff 20 or 50 years from now....



I'm sure they will, and I'm sure that the real 'classics' of the genre will command huge prices (OD&D, the modules I can only dream of ever finding in a pile somewhere 'cause I'll never be willing to buy them, etc). Whether the more run of the mill modules will hold any value is more questionable, simply because there are more of them around then there are collectors and the supply is not shrinking much, imho.



And I'm sure that some of the new stuff will become equally rare. What will be seen as the 'classics' of the future, I don't know. Maybe 3.0 will be looked back upon with the same nostalgia as the OD&D stuff. Maybe WoTC will move completely away from FR/ Greyhawk and 30 years from now anything written for those settings will be fondly remembered and collected. Personally, I'm just gonna buy the books I like and try to take better care of them then I did the stuff I bought back in the '70s. :)



(Ironically, when I was selling stuff last year, the items which sold for the most money were those I didn't have any use for - simply because they got tossed in a box and left for a couple decades. Much of it stuff I got at one Gen Con auction or another (back in the day) as part of a 'bundle' bought for something else in the pile altogether. Incidentally, this includes any TSR modules I came across, simply because I always used my own stuff. On the other hand, this also meant that I didn't have very many of those modules. )



It also meant that I preferred 'game aids' that tried to spur my own imagination rather then substituting for that imagination. But that is just me - which often meant JG stuff.... But I did buy a copy of the Eberron with the misprinted/bound pages just on the off chance that it becomes valuable in a few decades. Especially since it actually cost me less (on Ebay of course) to buy it then a 'proper' Eberron Campaign setting would have....



Carl

  


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:28 am 
 

MShipley88 wrote:
"Almost" every area. I always have wondered why a writer would include a room with no description. :cry:



"37 - This room is empty. There is nothing of interest here." :evil:



Too true...nothing of interest at all. Why not invent something to find in that room, even if it is only grafitti? :x




Too true. I just mapped out an entire temple today, and remembered to include the mundane stuff like bathrooms. A lot of the modules that I've read don't seem to include that stuff, which I always found frustrating. I always ask "What are they eating, and where is it going when they're done?" :P



I find newer modules to be too restrictive in setting. Instead of just giving me a few great maps (which are not that much harder to draw than bad maps) and a storyline, the writer too often wants to trap me in his world. Major story components are too closely tied to a particular fantasy setting.




Even more "too true". A lot of the 3rd party publishers fall into that trap, and I think it kills their business - most DM's use Greyhawk, FR, or their own settings. The odds of someone wanting to use some other DM's setting is pretty darn slim, and it's a lot of work to convert many of them :(

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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:02 am 
 

GraysonAC wrote:"What are they eating, and where is it going when they're done?" :P


I can imagine the delight of DMs.  "You've just opened the door to the only toilet in G3.  Everyone needs to make a system shock roll." :lol:

  


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:26 am 
 

ExTSR wrote:
johnhuck wrote:No offence to Don Turnbull, but




I doubt that he'll mind; he passed away a couple o' years ago.



Don and I never got along very well... :?


Ooops!  :oops:



If I were a politician, I would now say that the Monstermark system was one of the greatest overlooked contributions to D&D.  But I'm not.



I think Don is remembered for his collaboration on U1/2/3.  A fantastic set of modules.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:40 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:
improvstone wrote:


If so it is possible the copy he has is not mint and he wants to upgrade ....




I mean I don't want to be too critical, but for $1800.00....................




Slow on the draw here......no, I don't have a copy yet.  The thought of keeping a mint/new one from Michicon where I attended as a lad had me temporarily struck with a hypnosis spell...

  


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:45 am 
 

Uh oh, watch out, Al!

  

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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:45 am 
 

afoolandhis$ wrote:Uh oh, watch out, Al!




actually not that bothered right now. now that i have calculated how much equipment i need for this marathon, i cant really afford it anyway....but you never know i might just try a little more :)



Al



  


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:16 pm 
 

johnhuck wrote:
GraysonAC wrote:"What are they eating, and where is it going when they're done?" :P


I can imagine the delight of DMs. "You've just opened the door to the only toilet in G3. Everyone needs to make a system shock roll." :lol:




8O  :lol:

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:28 am 
 

johnhuck wrote:
GraysonAC wrote:"What are they eating, and where is it going when they're done?" :P


I can imagine the delight of DMs. "You've just opened the door to the only toilet in G3. Everyone needs to make a system shock roll." :lol:




    One can get too logical.  Every now and then my players come across a huge pile of poo.....it all has to pile up somewhere, doesn't it?



   But, I have learned to limit the poo piles...because my players will burn too much of our gaming session time meticulously searching those piles (and getting mad if they cannot find anything except corn).



   I just want a module that can fall from space and land in my game world.  I don't want to have to find ways to explain two new kingdoms, a new religion, a whole new social scene and a sect of female paladin kick-boxers who secretly rule all of society from behind the throne.  (Or, the monks of Greyhawk's Scarlet Brotherhood, who plot in secret in their hidden kingdom that is located exactly in the center of the world's major waterways and is almost impossible to miss without running right into it.)   :evil:


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:37 am 
 

And, on the topic of Greyhawk....



   Those of you who own a copy of the two-part color map....



   Try placing an 81/2 x 11 sheet of paper over the center of the map, with the city of Greyhawk right in the middle.



   In that area of terrain you will find a major city, river, major lake, mountains, desert, demi-human kingdoms, swamp, enchanted forest, ocean, hills (with burial mounds), the Wild Coast and a humanoid kingdom (Pomarj) complete with the legendary prison of a Lovecraftian god (Tharziduin).



    All of this is in miniature size compared to the same types of terrain on the rest of the map.  (Find another area of the map of the same size which has all possible terrain features....)



   It seems clear that Gary Gygax first drew his World of Greyhawk campaign on a standard size piece of hex paper.  Then, he added areas to the borders and vastly expanded his world either as the game expanded or specifically for publication.



   But I digress...where were we....ah...I am off to Ebay!      :wink:


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:39 pm 
 

Hey Tyson,

Congrats.  I'm seriously glad on your behalf that you got a decent price for it.  



Well done!

  


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:02 pm 
 

afoolandhis$ wrote:Hey Tyson,

Congrats. I'm seriously glad on your behalf that you got a decent price for it.



Well done!


Broke the winner's run of ~230 sales in a row since their last purchase, too... Heh, heh.





Third makes a change for you, Stephen?

  
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