Lost Caverns of Tsojconth Auction.
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:59 am 
 

stratochamp wrote:Hi David, as regards sales history of orange b3`s i just wanted to set the record straight. i bought the first one sold at gencon, and it was $46. i bought the next one as well for $71. the third one went for $310 (i dropped out at 250; i was 18 yrs old & that was a lot of $$ at the time). i still have that first one i bought although-horror of horrors-i took the shrinkwrap off to see what the hubbub was all about. and by the way, one had actually come up for sale 2 years earlier, but the seller wanted 250 minimum and my brother-in-law wouldn`t loan me the money so nobody bought it.




I remember the $71 auction and thinking at the time the price was crazy (that was 20 years ago, or so??). My friends and I would all pool in $25 each and buy #1 Dragons on Thursday (much lower attendance at Gen Con on the first day) then resell on Saturday and double our money. We thought we were making a killing. Again, 1983-5 time period money. You could buy a crap load of D&D stuff for $50.



Just as side, for all you fellow board game enthusiastes. You could buy SPI and Avalon Hill board games for about $5-8 each back then 1983+/-. We bought loads of them on the cheap - to play actually. Most of us sold them in the early 90s to clear out closets as most of us were now married and having kids - no more time to war game. I think we would get around $10 or so and the occassional surprise $20 for most games. Talk about premature sellling.  Some of those SPI games are going for up to $100!!! Damn it all...


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:52 am 
 

bbarsh wrote: I remember the $71 auction and thinking at the time the price was crazy (that was 20 years ago, or so??). My friends and I would all pool in $25 each and buy #1 Dragons on Thursday (much lower attendance at Gen Con on the first day) then resell on Saturday and double our money. We thought we were making a killing. Again, 1983-5 time period money. You could buy a crap load of D&D stuff for $50.




No doubt we'll all be having similar thoughts about today's prices in another 20 - 25 years.  Can you imagine how things will look when TSR has its 50th anniversary?

  


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:19 pm 
 

afoolandhis$ wrote:No doubt we'll all be having similar thoughts about today's prices in another 20 - 25 years. Can you imagine how things will look when TSR has its 50th anniversary?


Hmmm, not so sure myself.



I can't provide any stats to back this up. But my gut feeling is that there is a direct correlation between the demographic profile of the collecting pool, access to items via the internet, and the prices of D&D collectibles. There are the market forces at work of supply and demand. And generally speaking we've all got more disposable income than we had 5, 10, 15 years ago. So, we can all push each other higher on items we want. And items all over the world thanks to t'internet. But I work on the assumption that there will be very few people left from the already relatively small pool of collectors that actually g.a.s. about the history of D&D to maintain ever increasing prices in the long term.



I hope that I'm proved wrong and that my pathetically rare-free collection might provide some sort of pension. But my honest opinion is that the short to medium term outlook might be rosey for the "investors" but the longer term outlook is bleak. My personal expectation is that by 2030 I will have a room full of paper that will be worth significantly less than it is now at today's prices. And I might even have a room full of paper that is actually worthless.



Call me stupid, but it still doesn't stop me wanting to spend my hard earned cash on collecting today. :?



harami2000 wrote:(Don't fly too well, anyhow... :()


And I'm in the same boat (so to speak) as David when it comes to flying. I can only do it when I'm off my head on prescription drugs. And spending 12 hours sat next to a corpse 8O  on the way back from Oz did nothing to help my fear. I should have sued.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:55 pm 
 

johnhuck wrote: And spending 12 hours sat next to a corpse 8O on the way back from Oz did nothing to help my fear. I should have sued.




Now THAT's something I'd like to hear more about.  What in the hell?

  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:44 pm 
 

I think that the collector market may hold for a few more years...there are still guys who started gaming in the 80's who are not out of the Army or established yet.



    I think that Dragonlance may be the hottest property for them.



    There will also be a dip in the market for a few years (I suspect) and then the remaining/surviving items will begin to increase in value.



    Fortunately, I am not collecting to sell.  I am collecting for myself.



    I remember places that do not exist.  I like the Acaeum because there are people here who share the same memories.      :)


"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

  


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:49 pm 
 

I agree with John. Personally, I think the prices of old D&D collectible stuff will start going down in 10-20 years, and be quite low in 30-40. It's not common for folks to want to spend huge sums of money on collecting things that they don't have a personal attachment to - and not many gamers under 30 have any emotional attachment to the OD&D stuff, or even 1st Edition stuff. Sure, there's the "Hey, that's neat." factor, but I don't that's going to be enough to support spending $2000+ on manuscripts and woodgrain boxes ;)



Add to that the fact that I think more of the older stuff is going to make it onto the market, thanks to eBay. Add to that, the original demographic of D&D gamers is getting older (and will eventually start failing those system shock rolls). More supply, lowering demand.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:38 pm 
 

afoolandhis$ wrote:
johnhuck wrote: And spending 12 hours sat next to a corpse 8O on the way back from Oz did nothing to help my fear. I should have sued.


Now THAT's something I'd like to hear more about. What in the hell?

Will PM you the story when I get a spare moment.  But the flight to Oz featured a man in a coma, followed by an internal flight with a nasty accident, and then the Piece de Resistance, the company of a dead man on the flight home.  Is it me?!?

  


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:45 pm 
 

johnhuck wrote:
Will PM you the story when I get a spare moment. But the flight to Oz featured a man in a coma, followed by an internal flight with a nasty accident, and then the Piece de Resistance, the company of a dead man on the flight home. Is it me?!?




Mental Note: Walk to GenCon 2006 if John is flying.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:09 pm 
 

GraysonAC wrote:Mental Note: Walk to GenCon 2006 if John is flying.


:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:47 pm 
 

Dang!  I wanna hear that one!   :(


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:41 pm 
 

I started out with the intent of replacing my worn AD&D books.I never even knew of the existence of woodgrains or even white boxes before I started hanging around The Acaeum. Now I want some. You're all a bad influence.



20 years in the future when the children of the 3.5e era begin building their nests of all things Dungeons and Dragons, I am certain that there will be plenty of willing buyers for woodgrains and OCEs.



But will they want Jade Hares or ST1s?

  


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:46 pm 
 

ifearyeti wrote:I started out with the intent of replacing my worn AD&D books.I never even knew of the existence of woodgrains or even white boxes before I started hanging around The Acaeum. Now I want some. You're all a bad influence.



20 years in the future when the children of the 3.5e era begin building their nests of all things Dungeons and Dragons, I am certain that there will be plenty of willing buyers for woodgrains and OCEs.



But will they want Jade Hares or ST1s?


I'll be happy if we manage to get all the printings sorted out by then!  :lol:

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:15 am 
 

ifearyeti wrote:I started out with the intent of replacing my worn AD&D books.I never even knew of the existence of woodgrains or even white boxes before I started hanging around The Acaeum. Now I want some. You're all a bad influence.



20 years in the future when the children of the 3.5e era begin building their nests of all things Dungeons and Dragons, I am certain that there will be plenty of willing buyers for woodgrains and OCEs.



But will they want Jade Hares or ST1s?




Good point.  Why should the prices go down as the next generation start collecting?  Unless 3.5 and d20 and whatever comes next ??? are really as bad as you all let on, in which case they won't start collecting!

Collectors will only start collecting if what they know is any good.  Once they find out about older stuff, they are going to be interested, particularly if its found to be better.



I'm with ifearyeti on this one.  I'd never heard of OD&D, let alone seen it, (I started out in about 82 or 83!), until I started reading here.  As a result, I've recently bought an OCE, Greyhawk, would like to get the other supplements and would love to get my hands on some of the really old rare modules.



From the little I've seen, the AD&D stuff is much more readable, playable etc., but hey, reading these early WD I've bought, the whole start of this hobby is truely fascinating (and quite frankly hilarious - some of these articles on "Monstermark" etc. have me in stitches).  I want more - I can't be alone.  



The only thing that can stop it, is the death of RPGs (is that going to happen?).  I know of at least a dozen kids who play regulalarly at my school - and as in my day, these are only the ones who own up to it!!!  Lets face it, D&D was never cool at school, but although much smaller now as a hobby, is it really going to die?

  

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:46 am 
 

jonjhargreaves wrote:
ifearyeti wrote:I started out with the intent of replacing my worn AD&D books.I never even knew of the existence of woodgrains or even white boxes before I started hanging around The Acaeum. Now I want some. You're all a bad influence.



20 years in the future when the children of the 3.5e era begin building their nests of all things Dungeons and Dragons, I am certain that there will be plenty of willing buyers for woodgrains and OCEs.



But will they want Jade Hares or ST1s?




Good point. Why should the prices go down as the next generation start collecting? Unless 3.5 and d20 and whatever comes next ??? are really as bad as you all let on, in which case they won't start collecting!

Collectors will only start collecting if what they know is any good. Once they find out about older stuff, they are going to be interested, particularly if its found to be better.



I'm with ifearyeti on this one. I'd never heard of OD&D, let alone seen it, (I started out in about 82 or 83!), until I started reading here. As a result, I've recently bought an OCE, Greyhawk, would like to get the other supplements and would love to get my hands on some of the really old rare modules.



From the little I've seen, the AD&D stuff is much more readable, playable etc., but hey, reading these early WD I've bought, the whole start of this hobby is truely fascinating (and quite frankly hilarious - some of these articles on "Monstermark" etc. have me in stitches). I want more - I can't be alone.



The only thing that can stop it, is the death of RPGs (is that going to happen?). I know of at least a dozen kids who play regulalarly at my school - and as in my day, these are only the ones who own up to it!!! Lets face it, D&D was never cool at school, but although much smaller now as a hobby, is it really going to die?




People are already collecting D20 stuff!  Try and get a complete collection of Dungeon crawl classics, Witchfire books and possibly a few others.  People in general like to collect, that is how Ebay got started (with Pez)!


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:28 am 
 

jonjhargreaves wrote:...truely fascinating (and quite frankly hilarious - some of these articles on "Monstermark" etc. have me in stitches)...


First time I've heard the Monstermark system desribed as hilarious 8O



No offence to Don Turnbull, but "mind numbingly boring" or "effectively useless" (except perhaps for the insomniacs out there) would be my choice of words :wink:

  

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:07 pm 
 

johnhuck wrote:No offence to Don Turnbull, but




I doubt that he'll mind; he passed away a couple o' years ago.



Don and I never got along very well...  :?

  


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:41 pm 
 

johnhuck wrote:
First time I've heard the Monstermark system desribed as hilarious 8O



No offence to Don Turnbull, but "mind numbingly boring" or "effectively useless" (except perhaps for the insomniacs out there) would be my choice of words :wink:




Couldn't agree with you more John.  But, that WD ever became what it was with that kind of article, (clearly what the gamers wanted) is a real eye opener.  The first couple of years are just full of new "improved" systems that would have put me off the game for life.



I just found the whole tone "hilarious" and clearly a product of its time.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:54 pm 
 

jonjhargreaves wrote:
From the little I've seen, the AD&D stuff is much more readable, playable etc.,




On the contrary, a good chunk of the 3.5 stuff is more readable and playable. There's a ton of great 1st/2nd Edition stuff, but you won't find stuff from 3rd that is a map with a lot of square rooms, and few descriptions. Comparing storylines and such, I think 1st/2nd has the edge, since products tended to be bigger back then, and thus you've got more room for non-game-mechanics. But for adventure playability, I'll take 3.5 stuff anyday ;)  Running a letter series adventure right from the module would involve a lot of on-your-feet thinking up of room descriptions, with some modules, coming up with entire areas on the fly. That was eliminated in 3rd, with the de facto standard being to have full text-box descriptions for each area.



Honestly, I hope I'm wrong about older D&D stuff not being collectible by the time I'm an old curmudgeon. It'd be nice to see the roots of our hobby being treated with respect. But, I just don't see it continuing as strongly as folks that were around for the start of the hobby start retiring and kicking the proverbial bucket.

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