woodgrain sale
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 3 of 41, 2, 3, 4
Author


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3800
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 21, 2022

Post Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:42 pm 
 

invincibleoverlord wrote:*puts fin above water and circles* :twisted: :lol:




Yes, the carcass is still quite fresh. Having only recently ceased thrashing, nay twitching, its sole movements now are the steady leaking of fresh blood into the salty waters of the north Atlantic. The sharks, hungry after a long, quiet summer of above-average water temperatures and below-average prey abundance, catch the scent from hundreds of miles away. The slow but constant trickling of blood over the next several hours is sure to attract the biggest and hungriest predators as the cute nibbler fish take their tiny bites and swim hurriedly away toward the relative calm of the near-shore waters...

  


Sage Collector
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 2774
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Last Visit: Jun 24, 2022
Location: Olde London Towne

Post Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:47 pm 
 

...swims for the safety of the shallow water near the shores.



absolutely!

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:16 pm 
 

red_bus wrote:Oh yes indeedy - I agree with whoever here said that in the end it might just go over the $2,000 .


I'm leaving it to Frank, if that's what he's willing to pay. :lol:



bclarkie wrote:Sorry. :oops: Dont feel too bad, I havent got much left either. :wink: I am almost positve a certain someone who *winks* at you when he talks to you here has a snipe high enough to take care of me. :)


Was interested in the set you picked up only really for the books and errata/ref sheets as "spares" (and to further confirm the printing history, of course). ~$730 was already $130 over what I'd really wanted to pay for those.



Have absolutely no interest whatsoever in paying ~$1,500 just for a box which is perhaps 1 1/2 grades better than those I've got!

(And then having to find a replacement set of ref sheets...).



All I can say is that I hope no idiot pops in 10 minutes before the sale ends, sees "1st Edition 1st Printing Woodgrain D&D set" on the top line and bids a crazy price without reading the full description. :D



Enjoy, y'all. :)

  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3800
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 21, 2022

Post Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:47 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote: Have absolutely no interest whatsoever in paying ~$1,500 just for a box which is perhaps 1 1/2 grades better than those I've got!

(And then having to find a replacement set of ref sheets...).



All I can say is that I hope no idiot pops in 10 minutes before the sale ends, sees "1st Edition 1st Printing Woodgrain D&D set" on the top line and bids a crazy price without reading the full description. :D



Enjoy, y'all. :)




David, you're not saying you're out of it, are you?

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:02 pm 
 

afoolandhis$ wrote:David, you're not saying you're out of it, are you?


Looks like it from those "predictions". :P



Am half tempted to throw in a better 2nd print U&WA to replace the one in that set, though.

(Picked up a few spare 2nd print booklets at $20/25 each, not that long ago).

  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3800
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 21, 2022

Post Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:06 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
afoolandhis$ wrote:David, you're not saying you're out of it, are you?


Looks like it from those "predictions". :P



Am half tempted to throw in a better 2nd print U&WA to replace the one in that set, though.

(Picked up a few spare 2nd print booklets at $20/25 each, not that long ago).




Ouch!  Such casual brilliance.   :mrgreen:

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:12 pm 
 

*chuckles*. They were sat in "plain sight" for best part of half a year and I couldn't even be bothered to ask the seller to confirm the printing... :roll:



Curiosity eventually got the better of me; and lo-and-behold they were 2nd prints. (I did round up the bill a bit).

  


Active Collector

Posts: 15
Joined: Oct 27, 2004
Last Visit: Jun 19, 2013

Post Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:09 pm 
 

I always intended to "complete" the set by buying a 1st ed. 1st print book to replace U&WA, but tracking down a good condition single book like that was a daunting task. *sigh* Whoever wins the set will have a good excuse to tackle that quest with more conviction than I could muster!  :lol:

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 517
Joined: Oct 03, 2004
Last Visit: Nov 07, 2007
Location: windy south florida

Post Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:58 pm 
 

Peter wrote:



I always intended to "complete" the set by buying a 1st ed. 1st print book to replace U&WA, but tracking down a good condition single book like that was a daunting task. *sigh* Whoever wins the set will have a good excuse to tackle that quest with more conviction than I could muster!




It is challenging for sure. Best chance would be to find a 1st print set with no box, but then there's the condition of the books not being boxed for probably many years. Chances of finding a loose true 1st U&WA in the condition of your books my guess would be very slim. But there's always chance.



BTW, I was under the impression that this variant cover was a 1st anyway; just the cover is different to make up for a shorter cover run of the U&WA. I'm going to compare our 1st / 2nd like Peters to a 1st and true 2nd and compare the differences. From memory I know for sure that all the 1st including the variant are cut to the same size. This would have been done on a hand operated paper-trimmer at the Lake Geneva Printing Co. You would trim say 20 of these books at the same time by setting a guide. …hence done at the same time, just a different paper stock for the cover. All the 2nd prints are about ¼" larger top to bottom. We're getting ready to display everything so I'll dig them out of the storage boxes a little early and try a shed some light on this.



One more quick thought, as far as the errata sheet being present, maybe these were just added in as sales carried through 74. Or they were just acquired by the original owners through the mail, conventions, or such over the early years. Anyone buying a true 1st would have been closely involved in gaming at the time and would have tried to acquire such sheets for games they purchased.



Any other thoughts on this gang?


"Its either a wand to cast Bigby's Hand spells or a +3 backscratcher. We're not sure which."

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:57 pm 
 

02cents/all comments afaik

invincibleoverlord wrote:BTW, I was under the impression that this variant cover was a 1st anyway


That's not what Paul said when he bought that $2,200 set.



invincibleoverlord wrote:...; just the cover is different to make up for a shorter cover run of the U&WA. I'm going to compare our 1st / 2nd like Peters to a 1st and true 2nd and compare the differences. From memory I know for sure that all the 1st including the variant are cut to the same size.


Would be interested to hear if that's the case with those you have access to! Things are even more complicated than I thought, if so.



The "variant" U&WA cover is 100% guaranteed to have been issued later because the cover matches the 2nd print.



In addition, I'm fairly certain the other two covers were reprinted as all sets with the "variant" U&WA also have the "lighter" M&M and M&T (most notable on the latter).

woodgrain sale • Collecting General •  The Acaeum

My early 1st print set is known to have been one of the first off the press; both it and the associated 1st Chainmail were used in the original Blackmoor campaign ("minty woodgrain" condition freaks beware of Blackmoor house rule annotations and extra "monsters" :P).



As postulated, the covers on the books in the pre-pub box should clinch the matter... although, of course, I'm making the assumption that there were only two cover variants for each book.

I know of no other "dateable" set other than those EGG, DA and a few others might have. And I ain't seen those. :(



The "variant" U&WA is also more common than was previously stated. At least 7 or 8 copies, thus far, but I'd have to recheck the auctions and disposition of copies as I understand them.

IIRC, Paul had two sets of each. (?)



This all tallies with the standard trick of only printing as many covers, or indeed boxes, as were needed whereas the text sheets were presumably just bundled aside "for later use".

In book speak, the variant cover books (all three) are "1st print, later cover".



The text block in the second print has very minor, apparently consistent, differences. Will have to recheck those even more closely some time...



invincibleoverlord wrote:All the 2nd prints are about ¼" larger top to bottom. We're getting ready to display everything so I'll dig them out of the storage boxes a little early and try a shed some light on this.


Smaller, not larger, here; and consistently so.

The "variant" 1st U&WA conforms to that, too, in addition to the color offsets on the cover text.



invincibleoverlord wrote:One more quick thought, as far as the errata sheet being present, maybe these were just added in as sales carried through 74. Or they were just acquired by the original owners through the mail, conventions, or such over the early years. Anyone buying a true 1st would have been closely involved in gaming at the time and would have tried to acquire such sheets for games they purchased.


Speculative.



invincibleoverlord wrote:Any other thoughts on this gang?


Well aside from the above, my other question re. "missing" reference sheets. (Will be just as difficult to find those, too, since they have to be from a woodgrain set... but possibly not early 1st prints which makes for fun when trying to find a 1st print U&WA).



*waits for one of two other board members I know who can provide observations on all the above*



(Please let me know what you made of the sizes of the various prints, Mike).

  


Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6455
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 26, 2022

Post Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:51 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
*waits for one of two other board members I know who can provide observations on all the above*





Are you waiting on me David?


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:03 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
harami2000 wrote:
*waits for one of two other board members I know who can provide observations on all the above*



Are you waiting on me David?


thx :)



D'you have an early 1st and 2nd for comparison with the later 1st, Brian? ;)



Yeah, but measurements on the later 1st certainly wouldn't hurt; esp. the U&WA, and whether the guillotining is slight skewed or not on any of the volumes.



Actually, IIRC one of the two members I was thinking about doesn't have a second print (only pre-pub, (presumed later?) 1st and 3rd). And Stephen is "missing" one 1st M&M, although he has all the other prints (I remember well being underbidder (yet again) on <toymom>'s copies).

  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3800
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 21, 2022

Post Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:26 pm 
 

Mike, David, et al.,



I've only got 1st, 2nd, & 3rd print M&M and a 2nd print U&WA.



Here are the top to bottom measurements:



1st M&M 8 5/8"

2nd M&M 8 15/32"

2nd U&WA 8 15/32"

3rd M&M 8 1/4"

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 517
Joined: Oct 03, 2004
Last Visit: Nov 07, 2007
Location: windy south florida

Post Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:11 am 
 

After further examination:



1st prints:



8 ½ "x 5 ½ "(standard paper size, mostly likely untrimmed)



1st print "variant":



8 7/16" x 5 ½ "(trimmed on top by aligning "Dungeons & Dragons" with other 1st's side by side)



IO wrote:



All the 2nd prints are about ¼" larger top to bottom




Whoops :oops: … strike that reverse it… :P



2nd prints:



8 7/16" x 5 5/16" (trimmed on top and side)



Notes:



I. By comparing 1st to "variant" 1st:

A. Obvious paper stock difference.

B. Staples align which most likely means they were run off on a binder together or close together in time. Staple binding machines are adjustable and sometimes move a little; especially on the older ones. But there is no real standard when setting the machine, so if I had to guess they were either run off together or some short amount of time before the machine was reset. I would need more copies to definitely verify this.



II. By comparing "variant" 1st to 2nd:

A. Again paper stock difference.

B. Staples do not align.

C. as noted above the height is the same, but "variant" has untrimmed side.



Thoughts?


"Its either a wand to cast Bigby's Hand spells or a +3 backscratcher. We're not sure which."

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:30 pm 
 

Thanks for checking, y'both. :)



I'm not really seeing staples aligning/not aligning in terms of distinguishing marks for a whole printing, either in relative positions or distances between staples.

They (and the other early TSR booklets) appear to be all over the place.

In fact, you'd have to convince me that Graphic Printing had a machine that could insert two staples at once... :o :P



However, if done consistently, the distance between the staples may eventually help as a small factor to help tie up batches of a given booklet, if not across the booklets.

The cover features (color offsets and shades) are more obvious distinctions at present. And we really do need further dateable material...

(Am certainly not relying solely on EGG's recollection after that interview with 3,300 sets in white boxes;

EGG @ Manga wrote:The next run of 3,300 was sold in white wrapped pre-printed boxes, but hand assembly was also done, that in the basement of the house I lived in. In fact, I personally toted all the cartons of booklets, 9,000 in all, from the truck tailgate down into the basement storeroom. It was a hot June day in 1975 that I remember well today

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 517
Joined: Oct 03, 2004
Last Visit: Nov 07, 2007
Location: windy south florida

Post Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:24 pm 
 

I had another thought:



Do you think the variant 1st was printed to make up for the noted "lack of a 1000" needed to complete the 1st print run, or maybe there was a surplus of M&M's and M&T's; say 100 or so of each, and a few more U&WA were whipped up to further sales or carry over to the second prints?


"Its either a wand to cast Bigby's Hand spells or a +3 backscratcher. We're not sure which."

  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3800
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 21, 2022

Post Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:29 am 
 

invincibleoverlord wrote:I had another thought:



Do you think the variant 1st was printed to make up for the noted "lack of 1000" needed to complete the 1st print run, or may be there was a surplus of M&M's and M&T's; say 100 or so of each, and a few more U&WA were whipped up to further sales or carry over to the second prints?




The latter sounds more likely to me.

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 517
Joined: Oct 03, 2004
Last Visit: Nov 07, 2007
Location: windy south florida

Post Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:33 pm 
 

Afoolandhis$ wrote:



The latter sounds more likely to me.




and



Peter wrote in his auction description:



The third book is a 1st ed. second printing. All research has lead me to think that this was a very late 1st ed. 1st printing. Most likely, the set was cobbled together when the first run of the third book was out (hence the addition of the errata sheet.)




Stephen,



So along those lines of thinking would you think there would be three different 1st print boxes?



A. 1st print with all 1st print supplements and no errata sheet.

B. 1st print with "variant" 1st print U&WA, and errata sheet.

C. 1st print hybrid with 1st print M&M's, M&T's, and a 2nd print U&WA, with the errata sheet.



All with the horizontal woodgrain pattern on the box.



BTW... does anyone have a "true 2nd" with horizontal pattren?


"Its either a wand to cast Bigby's Hand spells or a +3 backscratcher. We're not sure which."

  
PreviousNext
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 3 of 41, 2, 3, 4