How much eBay really cares about fraudulent sellers/sales...
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Grandstanding Collector
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:25 pm 
 

I will only buy from Acaeum members with my PayPal balance. If I plan to buy something from a seller I don't know, regardless of their feedback and pedigree, I always buy with a credit card.

I've also noticed its best to ignore PayPal and go straight to your credit card. You get your money back in a week or two (instead of PayPal's 30 days that usually ends up arounf 45 days) and the seller or PayPal end up footing the bill.

And screw the seller's returns policy. You then have both your money and the disputed product (if it arrived) and can then ask the seller to pay in advance for shipping fully insured airmail with tracking and your packaging and handling costs. $30 should cover it. :D

While PayPal's policy is biased towards the buyer, you might as well exploit it. It's a kinda nice irony seeing as eBay are so heavily biased towards the seller.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

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Grandstanding Collector

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:16 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
afoolandhis$ wrote:In any event, you're sure to get neg'd, so I'd hit them first if I were you.

Agreed with y'both. If the next response ain't a total turnaround, will do so.

80 character limit, huh? :o


david, never mind all this bolloxing around chummer, go straight for the jugular and dont even worry about it :D

never mind ebay or paypal, go direct to your credit card. they will be more than happy to deal with it - they ask for a number of days before it is lost tho (as do the postal service). then contact the seller and tell him you aint received it and mention you have contacted your CC as you didnt think it had even been sent anyway. if you have his name, mention the name in the negative feedback, then contact ebay and tell them the feedback policy has been breached, so that they remove his and your negs.

so you will have your money back, no neg recorded on your feedback and with a little luck, the book might even arrive too!

i am normally a decent kinda guy but some ppl just bring out the best (or worst) in me :D

Al

ps....JG instalment....JG instalment....:D



  


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:18 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
bclarkie wrote:BTW, how exactly get your address to ship to if you havent even paid for it yet??

*thinks*. OK, is that possible?! :?

*looks around for a seller to confirm*

bclarkie wrote:8O Christ he shipped it without you even paying for it yet, how f*ckin stupid can one person be?? :roll:

They say...

Nothing surprises me any more... :roll:


Yep, he can get your address even if you haven't yet paid.  I nearly always pull addresses to pre-print the labels when I know someone has a money order on their way to me.

Best of luck in getting this figured out!

  


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:14 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
bclarkie wrote:BTW, how exactly get your address to ship to if you havent even paid for it yet??

*thinks*. OK, is that possible?! :?



It'd be awfully hard to figure out shipping costs without knowing the address you're shipping to :D

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:21 pm 
 

GraysonAC wrote:
harami2000 wrote:*thinks*. OK, is that possible?! :?

It'd be awfully hard to figure out shipping costs without knowing the address you're shipping to :D

OK, clever! :o

*turns question back on Brian* :P


...ain't got a clue what either of us was thinking there, my excuse being that I thought the seller just knew the country at that point.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:08 pm 
 

Well, looks like trying to make an "Item was not as described" claim is pretty much impossible for D&D stuff. This is the email I received regarding my claim against someone who shipped stuff that was incomplete.



**



Dear James Lastname,



We are currently in the process of investigating your claim:



------------------------------

Complaint Details

------------------------------

Transaction Date: Jul 18, 2005

Transaction Amount: -$xxx USD

Transaction ID: 7PY00324R4226xxxx

Case Number: PP-097-131-xxx

Seller's Name: Christopher Rhodes

Seller's Email: [email protected]



In order to continue with the investigation of your claim, we must request

documentation to support your claim that the item is damaged or

significantly not as described.  Please obtain a document (such as an

estimate or invoice) from an unbiased third-party, such as a dealer; repair

shop, appraiser, or another individual or organization that is qualified in

the area of the item in question (other than yourself), which details the

extent of the damage or clearly explains how the item received

significantly differs from the item advertised. Please do not proceed with

any repairs or alterations to the item, as doing so will limit PayPals

ability to successfully resolve your claim, and may result in the

cancellation of your dispute. If possible, the document should include a

serial number and description of the item, and the dollar amount required

to complete the repairs necessary to correct the damage. This document must

be on letterhead that includes the name, address, and phone number of the

individual, business, or organization so that PayPal may contact them if

necessary.



The documents should be faxed to PayPal at (402) 537-5760 (please note this

is a United States phone number, if you are faxing from outside the United

States, you will generally need to dial 00 1 before the number). Please

include a cover sheet with your fax that includes the email address

registered on your PayPal account and the ID number of your claim

(PP-097-131-392) so we may attach the document to your claim as quickly as

possible.



We must receive your fax within ten days from the date of this message in

order to proceed with the investigation of your claim. If we do not receive

your fax within ten days, your claim will be cancelled. Unfortunately, we

are unable to grant extensions to this time period. Please note that PayPal

is unable to reimburse you for any costs or fees that may be incurred in

obtaining the requested documents. Any documents you provide may also be

supplied to the seller in your dispute.



Thank you for your cooperation and patience. We apologize for any

inconvenience this request may cause. Please do not misconstrue PayPals

request as suspicion that your claim is not valid. As we are an

internet-based business, we do not have the opportunity to review the

relevant items and evidence in question. Therefore, we must rely on the

documents described in our request to continue with the investigation of

your claim.



Sincerely,

Useless Git

Protection Services Department

PayPal, an eBay Company



**



So in order to prove that the stuff I got was missing pieces (and pages), I have to find somebody that has company letterhead, and can verify that this stuff is missing. And then they have to agree that PP can call and harass them about it.



Bleh. I think I'm going to just pay with credit card from now on, and use CC chargeback in case there's any problems :(

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Grandstanding Collector
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:41 pm 
 

I'm sure there are a few dealers here who would be willing to support a claim that items are missing or incomplete, and put that statement in writing. Some of our dealers here will be good with a word processor and willing to back you up, surely.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:51 pm 
 

Unfortunately, nobody that lives even vaguely near me. A good thought though :)

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:40 pm 
 

David.



Just don't pay the guy David. Take your unpaid item strike if the seller decides to press ahead with it. If it worries you then just create another Ebay account.



DO Not paythe seller and then try to dispute (chargeback) with your credit card

because that doesn't prevent an unpaid strike. I know because i had a situation where I paid and the stuff arrived with lots of pieces missing. Got no joy with the seller so filed a dispute with paypal.

Paypal found in my favour and gave me ALL my money back. Then ebay allowed the seller to file a non-payment dispute against me..

Luckily the seller wised up after that and things ended :-)

  


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:08 pm 
 

jagd, how did you get the documentation that PayPal needed to prove stuff was missing?

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:58 pm 
 

My tale of woe:



"Dear nn



After careful review, we have concluded our investigation of the Buyer

Complaint described below.



We have decided in your favour, however, we were unable to recover any

funds from the seller's account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement,

recovery of funds associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed.



We will make our best effort to recover the funds in question if they

become available in the seller's account in the future. Please be assured

that we will also take appropriate action against the seller's account,

which may include limitation of the seller's account privileges"

  

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Grandstanding Collector

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:17 am 
 

nn wrote:My tale of woe:



"Dear nn



After careful review, we have concluded our investigation of the Buyer

Complaint described below.



We have decided in your favour, however, we were unable to recover any

funds from the seller's account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement,

recovery of funds associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed.



We will make our best effort to recover the funds in question if they

become available in the seller's account in the future. Please be assured

that we will also take appropriate action against the seller's account,

which may include limitation of the seller's account privileges"




nn, i dont even bother with paypal chummer. they are worse than useless. just call your credit card and get them to sort it.



its sad that ppl get away with these things.



Al



  


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:04 pm 
 

I do not know if this works the same way over there but, in the US we can refuse a package from the USPS. We just cannot open the thing or that constitutes acceptance of it. We can write refused on it and the USPS will take it back and send it back to the original shipper. Hopefully you can do the same!



John



P.S. Hopefully they will also get charged shipping AGAIN!

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:51 pm 
 

This is why I asked once before about PayPal with bank balance vs PayPal with credit card.

Eventually the 'trial amount' where they let you pay from cc runs out.  So how do you avoid losing the option to do chargeback on cc?  
Can you easily start a new PP account with the same card or a different one?
Are people paying via cc not through PP?
Or are most people just letting PP have access to your bank balance and hoping for the best?

My trial amount is almost gone and I don't trust those greedy bastards with account access.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:13 pm 
 

mordrin wrote:This is why I asked once before about PayPal with bank balance vs PayPal with credit card.

Eventually the 'trial amount' where they let you pay from cc runs out. So how do you avoid losing the option to do chargeback on cc?
Can you easily start a new PP account with the same card or a different one?
Are people paying via cc not through PP?
Or are most people just letting PP have access to your bank balance and hoping for the best?

My trial amount is almost gone and I don't trust those greedy bastards with account access.


well once you go past the "trial period" and verify details etc, you still get an option to pay by CC. it defaults to bank account first, but when you make a payment, you just change it to credit card.

Al



  


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:46 pm 
 

A question for sellers - if a dumbass buyer makes a PP claim that your item never arrived, who has the onus to prove that it did (or didn't)?  I've got a numbnuts that filed a claim after not getting their order (payment cleared PP the 15th, claim filed on the 24th.. yeesh), and the email I received from PP seemed to imply that the onus was on me to prove that I delivered the item. Which, since the buyer didn't purchase tracking, it impossible.

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:02 pm 
 

GraysonAC wrote:A question for sellers - if a dumbass buyer makes a PP claim that your item never arrived, who has the onus to prove that it did (or didn't)? I've got a numbnuts that filed a claim after not getting their order (payment cleared PP the 15th, claim filed on the 24th.. yeesh), and the email I received from PP seemed to imply that the onus was on me to prove that I delivered the item. Which, since the buyer didn't purchase tracking, it impossible.




Well, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but if you didnt track it, you are flat out porked.  Paypal puts the onus on you the seller to prove to them that not only that you shipped the item(s), but also that they arrived.


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:18 pm 
 

That is f'ing ridiculous.



So.. anything sent without delivery confirmation, which is damn near everything, you could just claim never arrived, and get your money back. That's bloody wonderful.

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:24 pm 
 

GraysonAC wrote:That is f'ing ridiculous.



So.. anything sent without delivery confirmation, which is damn near everything, you could just claim never arrived, and get your money back. That's bloody wonderful.




why dont you get a mate or other ebayer, in a week or two, to e-mail that ebayer and ask if the item is any good as you were thinking of getting one.... if he replies to the positive, then he received it and you will have proof...



Al



  


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:32 pm 
 

Heh. Might work on a truly retarded buyer that bought a rare book or something, but this wanker bought D&D miniatures.



eBay ID is sweetnlow1275. I'd recommend any fellow sellers that sell the plastic D&D miniatures add them to your blocked list, just in case.



Man, there's not many things that get me riled up more than being accused of being a cheat. Pretty sad that you can fricking bend over backwards to deal with people fairly, and they'll still stab you in the back if given a chance.

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