When is it OK to bid on Ebay against an Acaeum member?
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:10 pm 
 

Are you freaking kiddig me. Those are best bids!!

I've been sniped and sniped several of our illustrious freinds.

I used particularly go after aneoths stuff. Snagged a Dark Elf Gaz in shrink one time...boy that one hurt him! :D

Anyway. If I really want it, all is fair. Now, if a member goes on the board and publicly states he is desparate need...I'll let it go...no point in screwing someone who has a legit need.

Afterall, it is just a hobby with me and I'm not gonna loose sleep over missing out on something.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:55 pm 
 

I had a idea regarding how we might be able to avoid bumping up each other's bids needlessly.  It's far from perfect, in fact it's only about an hour old.  I'd appreciate comments, suggestions,  and insults.  It's designed to be a voluntary, opt-in honour system.  It only applies to bidders that agree to the system, of course.

Willing members would enter into an honour-bound agreement wherein they agree not to outbid each other unless:

a)  a member refuses to reveal their high bid, or
b)  they are willing to bid more than a previously revealed high bid

An example:

Member A sees an item he wants to bid on, with an opening bid of $1.  Let's say a beat-up B2.  He puts in his high bid, $20.  He chooses to notify the other members of this high bid on the auction, preferring transparency over stealth, to attempt to avoid paying too much.  This is voluntary.  If he saw something he didn't want to mention to the others, he could -- but he'd be fair game like in any other auction.

If Member B is not willing to pay more than $20 for the B2, he respects that Member A wants it more and backs off.  He sees that there is no point in bidding $2, $3, etc. as he'll just be bumping up Member A's bid.  This effectively saves Member A some money, and the current bid remains at $1 for Member A.

If Member B is willing to pay more than $20 for the B2, he does so.  Let's say he puts in a high bid of $50.  The current price is now $21 for Member B.  Member A has already entered his high bid, and bows out gracefully.

What happens next depends on whether Member B chooses to reveal his new high bid.  If he does, Member C has agreed not to outbid him unless he's willing to go higher than $50.  If he chooses to forego this protection by not revealling his high bid, then Member C is free to bid $41, $42, or any amount he chooses.

There are a lot of things missing from this concept, but I thought I'd share it, anyways.

 YIM  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:06 pm 
 

Well thought out - and it works.

However, I am pretty sure it violates ebay rules. Sort of collusion.

I just do not think it is fair to the seller(s). It also could have a detrimental effect on valuation - though we are surely talking about a relative few auctions.

Like I said before, if I am bidding on something and you just have to have it to fill that gap in your collection, I'll tell you my max bid so long as it is not an item I must have, say a mono lizard logo G1.

Another small point, but potentially important. It could be determined that members of this forum have formed an alliance (of sorts) to undermine ebay auctions and those auction results. That could get this forum and web site in hot water - guilt by association, as it were. I am not about to open that can of worms.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:29 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:Another small point, but potentially important. It could be determined that members of this forum have formed an alliance (of sorts) to undermine ebay auctions and those auction results. That could get this forum and web site in hot water - guilt by association, as it were. I am not about to open that can of worms.


A very important point, imo.

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:47 pm 
 

There is nothing at all in that plan that violates eBay rules. How can you possibly make a rule that people are not allowed to collectively and intelligently bid? How in the world would it be proved?
I mentioned something like this long ago. The only people that would probably suffer more than a little are resellers. I don't actively collect anymore, but if I did, I would certainly go along with deimos' idea. As far as valuations being affected, once again we come to the old argument of something being worth what people are willing to pay for it.
If by valuations, bbarsh, you mean the values listed in the Rares on the EbAcaeum, those are not, IMHO, a very effective guideline. A Near Mint 1st print Chainmail for $575? NM 1st print DG for $600? Let's be serious, both of those would quite easily go for $800 each, and probably top $1,000. Unless EVERY validated transaction, eBay or private, is recorded, the whole system is flawed. I noticed that the info regarding the two different printings of Rahasia was added, but the auction in which I won the copy which turned out to be the proving factor was not. So I see no way the valuations there could suffer, since they are invalid to begin with.
Personally, I see a very sad trend in the RPG collecting field. Instead of the majority of transactions being trades, as it was in the early days, now we have the vast majority of people ateempting to get items for the minimum and sell them for the maximum. I can understand picking up a duplicate item as trade fodder, but I constantly see people buying up items that I know certain Acaeum members could use, and then relisting them on eBay to churn out a few bucks. I've seen hundreds of items listed that I could have easily snagged and resold, but I prefer to leave them for people that truly want/need them.
There is no unity or camaraderie in RPG collecting anymore. There are a few people here that are genuinely glad when someone picks up a nice item, but the vast majority just grumbles about having missed it.
Very sad.


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:50 pm 
 

Personally I dont think it can work based on 2 factors: 1)Everyone here would have to go along with this idea and stand by their word. 2) THere would be no compensation or control for what people outside of this site do. Even if we could make a difference by doing this, EBay would not be able to a f*ckin thing about it. EBay can't and/or won't even police itself, let alone some other website.
 Lets be realistic, just in the last 6 months alone, EBay has allowed the most recent reincarnation of TGE/ETC/jonb to come and go again while stealing even more money from unknowing buyers, even though they were amply warned ahead of time, so many illegal pdf auctions I can't even count anymore, and most recently they have just told someone from this site, that even though a seller completely lied in the auction description about a books particular printing, that it wasn't EBays problem, that they the "buyer" should have asked more questions before the auction was over. :roll:  I have said it before and I will say it again, EBay couldn't find its ass if some gave them a map with it circled in highlighter.


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:23 pm 
 

To clarify one point, when I used "Members" in that scenario, I was referring to members of that agreement, not all Acaeum members.  Nobody would have to go along with the idea at all, and I'm sure there's no way to get more than a handful of people involved without it getting ridiculously complex.  

It doesn't take into account sniping at all, or bidders not part of the agreement.  

As bbarsh stated, this could be a problem for resellers, unquestionably.  Not sure what to say about that one yet, except "oops".  Might need a rethink on that point alone...if we alienate the resellers, just whom are we buying from?  :oops:

I'm not sure how it would violate eBay rules, but if it did, obviously I wouldn't go for that.  I disagree that it would be a reflection of Acaeum at all -- keep in mind that technically, jonb was an Acaeum member at one point.  I don't think people believe we're all like him, at least I hope not.

DL36 made some great points regarding valuations.  The system is flawed, in the sense that it is not 100% complete.  The valuations are by necessity an approximation, the more data, the better.  I don't think that just because they're incomplete means that they're useless.

I must admit, I'm one of the people that picks up stuff cheap and tries to sell it for more.  Guilty as charged.  It's not easy, I'm not making significant amounts of wealth doing so, and I dump anything I do make back into collecting.  But my hobby is essentially self-sufficient, except when I over-extend myself.  If I can raise enough this way to seriously contend for a 1st print woody at today's crazy prices, I figure I've earned it.  Beats the heck outta working overtime.  ;)

Anyway, thanks for your candid input everyone, and keep it coming if there's any more thoughts!

 YIM  


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:13 am 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:There is nothing at all in that plan that violates eBay rules.


No, there's not. eBay cannot make people bid, cannot force people to bid "normally"; and cannot prevent groups of two or more people from talking about bidding. Let's not get too paranoid here: there is a difference between free speech and conspiracy. Plus, the whole idea of eBay as some sort of all-knowing Big Brother able to proclaim "We KNOW you would have bid $20 until those other Acaeum guys talked you out of it" is patently absurd.

(BTW, searching for "collusion" on eBay's help pages returns exactly zero hits. The same thing happens with a search for "conspiracy" or "conspire" ... same for "alliance," "syndicate" ... etc., etc.)

Finally, let's be serious here: since when did we become so eBay-law-abiding, anyway? A casual search of a few public-forum threads here reveals active smear campaigns against particular sellers*; the creation of roughly 10,000 blatantly bogus accounts to flush out PDF sellers**; and a plethora*** of various tips and tricks — many decidedly shady — to get back at those who have possibly wronged us.

And this is the same group that's now going to worry about quote-unquote bid collusion? Please. :roll:

+++++

* — most of whom deserve exactly what they get
** — see above
*** — "Tell me, Jefe, what is a plethora?"

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:12 am 
 

Couldn't have said it better. In fact, I didn't.


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:39 am 
 

[/quote]*** — "Tell me, Jefe, what is a plethora?"[/quote]

Just my $.02...but this is from one of the funniest movies ever! :D

"Just great, you've killed the invisible swordsman!"

Classic....Oh, uh, and...screw Ebay!!! :twisted:

  


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:41 pm 
 

KingOfPain wrote:Just my $.02...but this is from one of the funniest movies ever! :D


I knew someone in this crowd would get it ... :)

Oh, and ... uh ... bite me, eBay! You can't make me bid if I don't want to! Down with all Capitalist Running Dogs!

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:34 pm 
 

Blackmoor wrote:Just read in a thread that one Acaeum memeber did not bid on an item because another Acaeum member was the high bidder already!

I know this happens often, when is politcally OK to outbid an Acaeum member? Most of the series collectors of D&D material are already on this board so is it first in has dibs? Hardly seems fair if it is that one or two items you really want and the item is well within your price range.


Personally, I don't mind at all if another member bids against me.  In fact, it can get kind of fun, especially when it's all happening behind the scenes (waves to a couple of the regulars).   :P

  


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:29 am 
 

*bump*



While I do try to avoid outbidding members where possible, it seems lately that everything I'm interested in is either being bid on, or sold by, or posted on "Interesting Items" by an Acaeum member (or all three!).  At some point, you have to stop being nice and just go for what you want.  :)

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:27 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:*bump*



While I do try to avoid outbidding members where possible, it seems lately that everything I'm interested in is either being bid on, or sold by, or posted on "Interesting Items" by an Acaeum member (or all three!). At some point, you have to stop being nice and just go for what you want. :)




I guess that you are putting that plan into action as you just outbid me on the 1st print PHB.  :wink:


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:28 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:
deimos3428 wrote:*bump*



While I do try to avoid outbidding members where possible, it seems lately that everything I'm interested in is either being bid on, or sold by, or posted on "Interesting Items" by an Acaeum member (or all three!). At some point, you have to stop being nice and just go for what you want. :)




I guess that you are putting that plan into action as you just outbid me on the 1st print PHB. :wink:


Yeah, that was a wee pre-apology for the evil that is unfolding at the moment. :)  I'm not trying to pick on you specifically Brian, it's just working out that way.

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:41 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:
bclarkie wrote:


I guess that you are putting that plan into action as you just outbid me on the 1st print PHB. :wink:


Yeah, that was a wee pre-apology for the evil that is unfolding at the moment. :) I'm not trying to pick on you specifically Brian, it's just working out that way.




Thats okay, I don't mind. :)   That doesn't mean that I am out of the picture though. :wink:


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:36 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:
I guess that you are putting that plan into action as you just outbid me on the 1st print PHB. :wink:


Yeah, that was a wee pre-apology for the evil that is unfolding at the moment. :) I'm not trying to pick on you specifically Brian, it's just working out that way.[/quote]



Thats okay, I don't mind. :)  That doesn't mean that I am out of the picture though. :wink:[/quote]



i think the more rare the item is, the more a collector will want it, regardless of who is bidding on it.



you win some you lose some - if you want it enough, bid more :)



  

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:48 am 
 

If you want it, don't post it in Interesting Items.

I remember swating bullets when the Rahasia was up. Thank God MuadDib was on vacation. I'm beginning to think he works for eBay.

You know, I find I have a LOT more time and money to play with now that I am out of active collecting. It really does take quite a bit out of you.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:05 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:i think the more rare the item is, the more a collector will want it, regardless of who is bidding on it.




Probably a good rule of thumb :D



killjoy32 wrote:you win some you lose some - if you want it enough, bid more :)




Or wait for next time: unless an item is unique or pretty close (Gypsy, the RJK manuscripts, etc.), I'm generally willing to pass knowing that another chance will come eventually. That worked for me on Starstone, The Lost Abbey of Calthonwey, and other lower-profile uncommon/rare items.



Of course that does mean that I may never get a Silver Anniversary set or OCE at a decent price, since they all seem to end up being posted here :D :D



Deadlord36 wrote:You know, I find I have a LOT more time and money to play with now that I am out of active collecting. It really does take quite a bit out of you.




Frank, you make an interesting point. How much time would you estimate that you've recovered in general by being an "inactive" collector. Also, how do you define that---you're still selling stuff, obviously, and still buy the odds and ends that interest you. How exactly is your collecting different now vs. before?


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