Interesting PayPal policy update
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Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:38 am 
 

You gotta love companies that release major news on Friday afternoons ...

Anyway, beginning Aug. 19, anyone accepting PayPal for eBay listings must accept all forms of payment — account balance, bank transfer, credit card, what-have-you. Also, adding an "I don't accept credit card payments" line to listings will result in sanctions from eBay.

Personally, I've always accepted anything in U.S. dollars, so this doesn't change anything for me. However, I know that many Acaeum members (especially our re-sellers) will want to wrap their heads around this information.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:49 am 
 

The reason for not accepting credit card payments is that such payments can be reversed by the buyer -- i.e., I win your auction and pay with credit card via PayPal, you send me the item, and then I reverse the charges on PayPal and claim I never received the item.  There's been rising incidents of such fraud lately.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:30 am 
 

Oh, no doubt — I actually expect this to be an extremely unpopular decision, both from the fraud angle and the fees angle. I just thought I'd throw it out there and see if the info. was of any use.

As discussed 1,000 times before, both here and elsewhere, this sort of sweeping change is only a sub-section of the real problem: we're all a captive audience. At this time, it's not possible to even discuss an alternative to eBay/PayPal and still keep a straight face. There's just nowhere else to get our modules, boxed sets, etc., seen by millions of potential buyers. When eBay says "jump," I'm not the only one asking "how high?"

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:15 am 
 

You absolutely have to love the fact that they are trying to spin this as them responding to their buyers and sellers complaing about the "confusing" policy. What a crock of sh*t. This is another plainly obvious money grab. Since they can't raise the fees again due to the hikes that caused such an outrage by everyone earlier this year, they are trying to force more fees through this backdoor way.

The good news about this though is that in the long run, it is short sighted greedy decisions like this that always opens the door for some competition. They must not be taking the Google threat very seriously or else they would be looking to find ways to make people happier with their services and not piss them off and drive them away.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:05 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:You absolutely have to love the fact that they are trying to spin this as them responding to thier buyers and sellers complaing about the "confusing" policy. What crock of sh*t. This is another plainly obvious money grab. Since they can't raise the fees again due to the hikes that caused such an outrage by everyone earlier this year, they are trying to force more fees through this backdoor way.

The good news about this though is that in the long run, it is short sighted greedy decisions like this that always opens the door for some competion. They must not be taking the Google threat very seriously or else they would be looking to find ways to make people happier with their services and not piss them off and drive them away.


Actually, BC, I think this is evidence they are taking the Google threat VERY seriously.  Sounds like they are trying to build up a war chest and wring every cent they can from the sellers on Ebay, because when the Google version hits they know they are positioned to lose quite a bit of money at least at the first.  While they are the only ones out there now, they are trying to make as much money as they can.  

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:03 pm 
 

Interesting. If there was some form of actual protection on PayPal's end that stopped buyers from yanking payment.. well, then I'd support this.

I know there's a signifigant minority of sellers that go through multiple personal PayPal accounts to reduce the fees they pay. I'm guessing this is mostly to close that loophole, which I expect costs them quite a bit of lost revenue.

Personally, I can't wait to see how Google Wallet shapes up. If it's more secure and comparable in terms of ease of use, I'll sure as hell use it instead of PP.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:16 pm 
 

Well, whatever their reasons, they just lost me. No more Paypal. I am notg one to grumble about "The Man" and continue to plod along. If not taking Paypal hurts the prices on some of the things I sell, so fuking what. I refuse to let someone try to blatantly manipulate me into giving them more money and then lie about why they are doing it.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:05 pm 
 

FoulFoot wrote:The reason for not accepting credit card payments is that such payments can be reversed by the buyer -- i.e., I win your auction and pay with credit card via PayPal, you send me the item, and then I reverse the charges on PayPal and claim I never received the item. There's been rising incidents of such fraud lately.

Foul

What a wonderful idea. Seems like a great way to deal with the likes of TGE/Jonb/ETC. I wnoder how long he'd stay in business if he was ripped off before he ripped off everyone else? That's a fantastic idea you have there, Foul.

That aside, I send everything I ship out recorded delivery if it is over what I can claim back off the Post Office. Most of what I sell I sell to fellow Acaeum members, and I'd be gravely disappointed if I was wronged by a fellow member. I buy a large proportion of my collection from other members, and everyone I have dealt with has been honest and sincere. I don't mind paying a little extra to buy from someone I trust.

Maybe it's about time we started cornering the market. BIN $40 (10% discount to established Acaeum members)


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:51 pm 
 

The IDEA is fine, but they are not doing it to prevent fraud. They are doing it to force everyone to upgrade, so that they can make money off even balance transfers. It's a joke, and greedy to boot.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:16 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:They are doing it to force everyone to upgrade


What struck me as strange was the method described in the announcement. According to PayPal, beginning Aug. 19, you can happily chug right along as a "personal" account member until someone pays you with a credit card, then — BAM! — you're now a "premier" account holder. Automatically. No choice. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

I had to read it twice to make sure I understood it. Seems pretty inelegant.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:23 pm 
 

What I will probably do is charge shipping based on the final sale price of the item(s), which will be exactly what the charge of a credit card Paypal payment would cost me, and then say "as a bonus, if you pay by check/moneyorder or Paypal balance, the percentage shipping fee wil be waived, and the exact shipping amount will be charged." I will of course state that this is to cover expenses incurred by the new Paypal policy.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:16 am 
 

I closed my account, not that I had a balance in it, or used it much. My roommate won't close hers, but I am not going to have dealings with a company that is this shoddily run. For me, check, bank check, and money order are the only accepted forms of payment, and the only way I will send payment if I win an auction.



  


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:05 am 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:I will of course state that this is to cover expenses incurred by the new Paypal policy.

I'm no expert, but I think that is on the list of things eBay will shut down your auction over.  You can't pass on any auction related fees to the buyer.  
Please correct me if I'm wrong!  :D

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:00 am 
 

If so, I will not accept Paypal anymore.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:00 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:If so, I will not accept Paypal anymore.


I accept it and add a protion of the fees into the handling part of shipping and handling.   Just a cost of buying things on Ebay.  If you do not accept paypal you will get less bids and more grief.

Just my 2 cents


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:08 pm 
 

Blackmoor wrote:
Deadlord36 wrote:If so, I will not accept Paypal anymore.


I accept it and add a protion of the fees into the handling part of shipping and handling.  Just a cost of buying things on Ebay. If you do not accept paypal you will get less bids and more grief.

Just my 2 cents


Yep, that's what I do as well. Not accepting PayPal is economic suicide on eBay, at least until Google Wallet comes along.

For my shipping/handling, I just build part of the cost of accepting PP into the handling cost, the same as I do the envelopes/boxes. I've never had anyone comment or complain - I'm sure 99% of folks don't even notice. It's fair to the buyer, and you're not cutting your own wrist by eating the fees, or by refusing to accept PayPal.

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Post Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:09 pm 
 

Check out this guys answer to paypal 8O



Marvel Super Heroes RPG | eBay


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

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Post Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:26 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:The IDEA is fine, but they are not doing it to prevent fraud. They are doing it to force everyone to upgrade, so that they can make money off even balance transfers. It's a joke, and greedy to boot.




I can understand why people don't like this change and the way it was implemented seems a little underhanded, but its perfectly understandable from Paypal's point of view.  Paypal exists to make money.  The new Paypal policy is just a new cost of doing business.  Simply pass it along to your customers (in a way that doesn't technically violate any of the rules).



I'm involved in the operation of an online business that offers free and paid services.  Dozens of people write in each day complaining that we don't offer enough for free.  For example, one that sticks in my mind said basically "If I have to pay to use your services, this membership is worthless to me."  Guess what buddy, if you're not paying you're worthless to us.

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Post Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:18 pm 
 

You might be forgetting that Paypal makes interest on every penny of balances kept with them. That adds up to a crapload of cash, since they invest it. Considering they pay their support and investigative teams around $50 a year collectively, they are still making a killing. And if you want to look at it as a business, how many businesses charge you extra when you use a credit card instead of cash? Are you forgetting that eBay OWNS Paypal? It should be a free service when you use it to pay a Paypal auction or fee. They are just trying to make even more money. I am all for capitalism, but monopolies are bullshyte.


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:46 am 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:You might be forgetting that Paypal makes interest on every penny of balances kept with them. That adds up to a crapload of cash, since they invest it. Considering they pay their support and investigative teams around $50 a year collectively, they are still making a killing.


Good for them!  But what does this have to do with the price of tea in china?

Do you sell your products / services / time / etc. for less than the market will bear?  Do you give people discounts because you make too much money?


Deadlord36 wrote:And if you want to look at it as a business, how many businesses charge you extra when you use a credit card instead of cash?


Very few, because in general that violates the rules of the various credit card associations.  It generally costs a merchant much more to accept payment by credit card than by cheque or cash, but its very difficult to operate most retail businesses with a merchant account.  It comes down to a simple business decision.  Would you rather have 100% of $100 or 95% of $200?

Deadlord36 wrote:Are you forgetting that eBay OWNS Paypal? It should be a free service when you use it to pay a Paypal auction or fee.


Perhaps one of the major reasons that Ebay bought Paypal was to make more money?  Sure its nice to control the whole process from listing through payment but the main reason isn't convienece, its profit.

Its always nice to say that other people/organizations should do more for free.  I think Ebay sellers should provide free shipping.  Afterall, they've made enough profit from the auction itself.

Deadlord36 wrote:They are just trying to make even more money.


Isn't making money the primary reason PayPal exists?

Deadlord36 wrote:I am all for capitalism, but monopolies are bullshyte.


Despite what I said above, I agree with you.  Monopolies don't serve capitalism well.  However, Paypal isn't a monopoly (yet).  There are alternatives to PayPal, just none as convienent or as widely used.  As PayPal's fees and rules become more onerous, the opportunities for its competitors increase.  In the long run, the rules and fees will stablize at whatever the market will bear.

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