Poll: What editions of D&D/AD&D do you collect?
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Poll: Which editions of D&D/AD&D do you actively collect?

Original D&D only 4%       4%  [ 3 ]
1st Ed. AD&D only 3%       3%  [ 2 ]
2nd Ed. AD&D only 1%       1%  [ 1 ]
3.0/3.5 D&D only 0%       0%  [ 0 ]
OD&D/1st Ed. AD&D only 30%       30%  [ 21 ]
OD&D/1st Ed. AD&D/2nd Ed. AD&D only 23%       23%  [ 16 ]
OD&D/1st Ed. AD&D/2nd Ed. AD&D/3.0,3.5 D&D (ie. all versions) 30%       30%  [ 21 ]
1st Ed. AD&D/2nd Ed. AD&D only 9%       9%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 70

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:53 pm 
 

Keith wrote:As far as the licensing aspects are concerned, I have not read the OGL, but I gather that products for 3E and 3.5E must not be easily adaptable to 1E AD&D or OD&D.


I don't know how they'd stop that though. Adventure-wise, there isn't really anything that would differentiate between 1st and 3rd edition. Go somewhere, kick in some doors, kill some bad guys, take their stuff :P

The OGL just says what you can and cannot use in your own product. Basically, anything that's in the [url="SRD"]The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) :: d20srd.org[/url] can be used, and anything that isn't, can't. The SRD has almost all the rules, and is just missing a few basics like character creation and XP progression. So essentially, WotC wants to gaurantee that you buy the PHB/DMG, and then you can go nuts with 3rd party supplements.

If you're interested in getting into 3rd, I'd look up Necromancer games. Their official company motto is "3rd Edition Rules, 1st Edition Feel" :) They're one of the better 3rd party supplement producers as far as modules go. Rappan Athuk is absolutely awesome :)[/url]

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:37 am 
 

Thanks for the advice about Necromancer games.  I'll check into it.

Like many in this forum, I'm a "retired" DM reliving my youth by collecting D&D and 1E AD&D.

But I'd also like to learn about 3E and see whether it's a workable option for me once I do resume playing (which is probably a year or two down the road).

That's why I posed the question regarding people's objections.  I'm kinda looking for the good, bad and ugly about 3E.

Thanks much,
Keith

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:13 pm 
 

Hi Keith

Good d20/3/3.5e:

Mongoose do some nice books at very reasonable prices.
Fast Forward have brought out some interesting monster collections, although I felt that the artwork in the encyclopedia of Demons and Devils was a bit ropey in places.
AEG - After all they did World's Largest Dungeon which has to be seen to be believed.
I can't remember who did it but Iron Kingdoms Stuff is well worth a view, especially the Monsternomicon which is IMHO a work of genius

Will


slammer  kintyre, hotfa nap, gripper longshank and  zhod thobi the npc was the party that got me interested

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:39 pm 
 

wthomas wrote:Hi Keith

Good d20/3/3.5e:

Mongoose do some nice books at very reasonable prices.
Fast Forward have brought out some interesting monster collections, although I felt that the artwork in the encyclopedia of Demons and Devils was a bit ropey in places.
AEG - After all they did World's Largest Dungeon which has to be seen to be believed.
I can't remember who did it but Iron Kingdoms Stuff is well worth a view, especially the Monsternomicon which is IMHO a work of genius

Will


Agreed on Mongoose and AEG. Could not agree less on Fast Forward - they are the worst publisher I've ever seen. The quality of their books is simply atrocious. I think they've got a high school student doing their editing for them on a volunteer basis or something ;)

Mongoose, AEG, Sword & Sorcery (which includes Necromancer Games), Monte Cook's Malhavoc Press (MC was one of the original guys on Planescape), and Green Ronin are the companies I'd recommend for 3rd party stuff.

AEG stuff is often not well balanced, but they are often the best for flavour and world information. Mongoose, the exact opposite - they focus mostly on the 'crunchy bits'.
S&S can really be hit and miss - they've got some great stuff, and some fairly poor stuff, but they're the largest 3rd party publisher for d20 D&D stuff, and they've got a lot of it out there.
Malhavoc focuses on MC's 'Arcana Unearthed' line, which is an alternate ruleset. Some interesting stuff.
Green Ronin has put out the very popular Freeport series, which is fantastic. For my store, I do my best to keep some GR stuff in stock, just so I can encourage folks to try it :)

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:58 pm 
 

wthomas wrote:Hi Keith

Good d20/3/3.5e:

Mongoose do some nice books at very reasonable prices.
Fast Forward have brought out some interesting monster collections, although I felt that the artwork in the encyclopedia of Demons and Devils was a bit ropey in places.
AEG - After all they did World's Largest Dungeon which has to be seen to be believed.
I can't remember who did it but Iron Kingdoms Stuff is well worth a view, especially the Monsternomicon which is IMHO a work of genius

Will


Privateer Press does the Iron Kingdom setting/Warmachine game, and it is some of the best written stuff I've seen.

ShaneG.

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:15 pm 
 

Cool. I'll keep an eye out for it in my eBaying, see if I can find the CS :)

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:58 pm 
 

GraysonAC wrote:Could not agree less on Fast Forward - they are the worst publisher I've ever seen.


Fast Forward, generally speaking, was awful — and I say "was" because I believe the company is essentially past-tense. The most recent web-page update was in December, and Jim Ward, from what I've heard, now works with Aaron over at NobleKnight.com.

To be fair, I'll say two things in FFG's defense: 1. the idea to use spiral-binding on a couple of their releases was a good one (very nice for the DM to be be able to read a book without having to balance it, too); 2. I don't think FFG ever got a fair shake from some reviewers. ENWorld, in particular, just body-slammed every single thing FFG ever put out. It become sort of a joke: "who can write the funniest FFG review?"

Still, they should have tried actually editing their releases ... :)

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:32 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:
GraysonAC wrote:Could not agree less on Fast Forward - they are the worst publisher I've ever seen.


Fast Forward, generally speaking, was awful — and I say "was" because I believe the company is essentially past-tense. The most recent web-page update was in December, and Jim Ward, from what I've heard, now works with Aaron over at NobleKnight.com.

To be fair, I'll say two things in FFG's defense: 1. the idea to use spiral-binding on a couple of their releases was a good one (very nice for the DM to be be able to read a book without having to balance it, too); 2. I don't think FFG ever got a fair shake from some reviewers. ENWorld, in particular, just body-slammed every single thing FFG ever put out. It become sort of a joke: "who can write the funniest FFG review?"

Still, they should have tried actually editing their releases ... :)


Glad to hear they're dying out. I'm not normally a mean guy, but man, putting out the drivel that they did and expecting folks to swallow it.. blech.

I definately agree with the spiral binding - on some books, that's a great idea. I've got a few copies of "Treasure Quests" that I haven't managed to sell off yet, and the binding is great for that kind of item. The book, however, is absolute ****. Not just editing, but game balance just goes right out the window. And the guys they had writing the books obviously had, at best, a tenous grasp of the 3rd edition rules (I just stumbled on an item in TQ that gives a -5 to enemies morale checks, and stuns them with no save for 3 rounds. There IS no morale in 3rd edition, and the stunning is just all sorts of wrong for balance reasons).

They needed an art department too. The maps in all the books of theirs I've seen are horrible. No interior detail at all, and a lot of the maps don't make any sense at all. For example, I just randomly flipped around TQ, and page 52 has a goblin den with no entrance. I kid you not.

I imagine it would be pretty hard to come up with a review that wasn't entirely negative ;)

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:07 am 
 

beermotor wrote:Well, one wonders if it is truly "collecting" in the strictest sense of the word. How collectible are books that are completely mass-produced? Not very.


Items don't have to be rare to be collected. If you have a bunch of 3rd edition books and materials, then you have assembled a collection, even though the books themselves aren't rare.

As for me, I collect it all, meaning everything from the original woodgrain box edition to present day v3.5 stuff.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:13 pm 
 

Doug Williams wrote:
beermotor wrote:Well, one wonders if it is truly "collecting" in the strictest sense of the word. How collectible are books that are completely mass-produced? Not very.


Items don't have to be rare to be collected. If you have a bunch of 3rd edition books and materials, then you have assembled a collection, even though the books themselves aren't rare.

As for me, I collect it all, meaning everything from the original woodgrain box edition to present day v3.5 stuff.


Usually things that are labeled collector's editon or collector's set turn out not to be collectible.  There was a "collectible" Star Trek boardgame that had a limited run of 40,000.  That's just a joke, and it now sells regularly on eBay for a few bucks, if that.  The OCE white box is an exception, though it still wasn't worth much just a few years ago.  

As for mass-produced, there are many instances of items that are mass-produced that become/became collectible such as baseball cards, Magic cards, comic books, and of course D&D items.  The trick is that at the time nobody realizes these things are collectible (ie. valuable) until much later.  The fact that most people now feel that 3.0/3.5 D&D items are not collectible could mean they will in fact become collectible in 20 years or they could turn out to be pretty worthless.  We'll just have to wait and see...

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:09 pm 
 

dathon wrote:
Doug Williams wrote:


I don't think 3.5 stuff will ever be collectible in a serious sense. Take a look at the 2nd Edition stuff - there was so much of it put out, that anyone who wants almost anything can just go to eBay and get it immediately.

And I suspect 3rd Edition is getting much higher print runs than 2nd Edition stuff did ;)

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:41 pm 
 

I somewhat agree. I print runs and the fact that so few things are really must have hard-to-find books mean it will be less so.

I think a few books, like Vile Darkness and Exalted Deeds, were not purchased ALOT, and the weird and distinct rules might cause them to go up in value later.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:37 pm 
 

Well, I'm collecting a bit at a time, when I get ahold of something I just don't want to let go.  I really enjoy the 2nd ed and some of the later 1st ed AD&D stuff to read through, the world building done in that time was incredible.  Ravenloft, Planescape, FR, Dragonlance, etc.  I've mostly played 3rd edition just because it was "handy" but am thinking about either trying an "old school" 1st ed AD&D or one of the throwback modules with 3rd ed rules.


I'd like to get some of the early stuff eventually, but it will definantly be a gradual step.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:59 am 
 

Reindeergamez wrote:Well, I'm collecting a bit at a time, when I get ahold of something I just don't want to let go. I really enjoy the 2nd ed and some of the later 1st ed AD&D stuff to read through, the world building done in that time was incredible. Ravenloft, Planescape, FR, Dragonlance, etc. I've mostly played 3rd edition just because it was "handy" but am thinking about either trying an "old school" 1st ed AD&D or one of the throwback modules with 3rd ed rules.


I'd like to get some of the early stuff eventually, but it will definantly be a gradual step.


i know i generally dig at 3e a lot, i don't intentionally do it, but i have my reasons and the main one is this. my daughter was invited to play a game of D&D by a friend at her school, as she had been mentioning playing 1e AD&D with me (good girl)....anyway, once they found out i play too, i was invited along. at first i was very enthusiastic, until i found out it was 3e.  :?  sooooo, i sat down and read up a little in the core rulebooks to try and familiarise myself. well i got about 20 pages into the players handbook and frankly, the whole thing totally turned me off.....the feel of it was so alien to me, i couldnt get my head around it. BUT so as not to let my heart rule my head so completely, i went along to give it a bash, mentioned i was totally unfamiliar to 3e, but would give it a go.

well you know what?

a. it took ONE HOUR for a group of 6 people to fight 9 orcs - the amount of calculating etc that was going on was like watching someone play warhammer or runequest.

b. one of the things i always loved about D&D / 1e AD&D was that the role-play element of the game was very important as the rules were generally rather "loose" - with 3e i found the whole thing.... *struggling for the right word*...... very wooden? to me it just didnt have the heart or depth that its earlier predecessors did.

but i persisted and i played the whole session. in the end, it was "ok" and i mentioned my thanks to them for inviting me along, but sadly, it just wasnt for me, as my heart just wasnt in that particular format. total respect to the DM tho, he was very good and really did well with the scenario etc....

on the way home, jessica said to me "dad, i dont really like that game, your one is much easier to play" .... awww bless her, what a sweetheart she is  :D

well i did give it a try, so there you go.

Al :)



  


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:05 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:a. it took ONE HOUR for a group of 6 people to fight 9 orcs - the amount of calculating etc that was going on was like watching someone play warhammer or runequest.


Yup. 3rd Edition takes D&D back heavily to it's wargaming roots. Heck, in 3rd, distance is talked about in squares first, and feet second. An hour for a combat that simple is a bit much, but I've had hours-long fights in some of the games I run and play in. And once you get up to higher levels, where there's a lot more options.. :)

1st/2nd/Basic D&D and 3rd Edition are similar, but definately different beasts. The depth of the rules is the major reason why I jump to disagree with anyone that says that 3rd is "easier" than the earlier editions. Very, very much not so, heh.

The major advantage to the system is that it's a lot more balanced than 1st/2nd ever was. There's not the same "gotta make my character so I don't get stuck playing the cleric" attitude ;)

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:58 am 
 

GraysonAC wrote:1st/2nd/Basic D&D and 3rd Edition are similar, but definately different beasts. The depth of the rules is the major reason why I jump to disagree with anyone that says that 3rd is "easier" than the earlier editions. Very, very much not so, heh.


well i have played 1e AD&D for like 25 years and i can tell you, playing that is SO much easier than 3e! :)

Even my daughter said that. She has only been playing 1e about a year, so is still something of a novice, so still in a position to adapt easily to another format, yet even she said that "your games are so much easier than that one".

I mean don't get me wrong, i have been in some fights in the Hill Giant Steading that were on and off for like hours at a time, due to the depth of things going on.

My favorite combat ever was the pirate ship in U1 Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, when we stormed the ship....now that truly did rock and the whole combat took about 45 minutes and was immensely exciting!

Too much calculating etc takes the edge off the excitement for me. I am not saying its a bad thing, just not for me.

each to their own in the end, as there are a lot of ppl out there who like 3e very much....

Al



  


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:05 am 
 

3rd ed vs basic/1st/2nd ed

basic/1st/2nd - much faster to run combats
shouldn't be, but it is.
It's all the questions that slow it down "what about if I do this that and the other, mr DM. Will you let me go with this interpretation of the rules?"
the mechanics are all there to make a clear-cut fast combat system, yet it doesn't quite happen.
It's just like mobile phones - nowadays they have so many features and functions that they can actually crash. Something like that at least.

I'm a player in two 3.5s and run at least one 1st ed.
Basically, The Temple of Elemental Evil is fast than The Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil

As a player, you're really playing against the rules, rather than against the DM. "I take a five foot step back so you can't hit me and stop my spell going off". I mean, really! IRL the attacker would also take a 5' step.

I've started thinking about using some choice items from 3rd ed and dropping them into 1st ed.
Primarily the initiative system, and possibly the move-action/standard-action component.
I already unofficially use CR based dex checks sometimes.
(Stat-10)/2 die modifier

3rd ed isn't wooden. It's clinical.
I mean, for exactly 2000gp you can have a +1 on your sword.
Where's the mysticism in that?
It's about the same amount of fun ordering off the menu at McDonalds. It's exactly the same stuff whereever you go.

And it's so finely balanced, it almost takes half the fun away.
Clever, it certainly is.


BJS

PS - Might be running U1 on Wednesday. If not, WG5. Either way, some 1st level 1st ed fun

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:24 am 
 

b_stedman wrote:PS - Might be running U1 on Wednesday. If not, WG5. Either way, some 1st level 1st ed fun


U1 is prb the best mod i have played for years - immense fun. my mate keith, who was DMing is a master at his craft and gave the game such a fabulous flow that it made it all the more enjoyable.

there was a really funny bit actually now that i remember. underground, where you find out what the pirates are up to....the guy who has illusionist spells (i forget his name), who is leading them, we attacked and he escaped down into the caves.... i (playing a fighter of course) charged right after him down the stairs and he turned a corner and up the other way, came some gnolls and some men and there was me hurtling down the stairs.... needless to say (with only 12 hit points left), i stopped and charged back up (getting hit in the back with a knife for my troubles), so i threw and flask of oil down the stairwell and lit it, to stop them.... then i realised we couldnt get down to get the guy either :D oops :D

tremendous fun tho.

in my combats, i just use common sense. sometimes i give the players the benefit of the doubt, if realistically, its possible, or i will counter it with what you would normally expect to happen. works good for me and keeps things moving at a real nice pace that everyone is happy with.

Al



  


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:16 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
b_stedman wrote:PS - Might be running U1 on Wednesday. If not, WG5. Either way, some 1st level 1st ed fun


U1 is prb the best mod i have played for years - immense fun. my mate keith, who was DMing is a master at his craft and gave the game such a fabulous flow that it made it all the more enjoyable.

Strangely, I don't remember this module at all, but I do remember my high level fighter renovating it into a nice summer home once we had finished... :)  Guess I'll have to take a swing at it again too.

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