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The Collector's Trove Presents The Robert J Kuntz Collection
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The Collector's Trove
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Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 10:41 am

Howdy All,

Address 3:

Ragnarok has an interesting history at TSR:

1978+ Ragnarok full-sized boxed game designed and developed by Rob and Terry Kuntz. Ultimately rejected as TSR was moving away from those sort of bookshelf games.

1980 Minigames become a strategy used by the company. The Ragnarok minigame is developed by Allen Hammack.

1981 The title to the proposed Ragnarok minigame (product code 4004) is changed to Viking Gods due to the release of a game by the name of Ragnarok put out by SPI.

1982 Viking Gods is released.

Futures Bright,

Paul

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Ethesis
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Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:00 pm

stormber wrote:Howdy All,

Address 3:

Ragnarok has an interesting history at TSR:

1978+ Ragnarok full-sized boxed game designed and developed by Rob and Terry Kuntz. Ultimately rejected as TSR was moving away from those sort of bookshelf games.

1980 Minigames become a strategy used by the company. The Ragnarok minigame is developed by Allen Hammack.

1981 The title to the proposed Ragnarok minigame (product code 4004) is changed to Viking Gods due to the release of a game by the name of Ragnarok put out by SPI.

1982 Viking Gods is released.

Futures Bright,

Paul

That explains the rest. Viking Gods was my original title, but, as I've said, the game was completely different. Now I understand why even more.

BTW, I've used this as an example of why you can't assume that just because of identical names or other simularities someone has "stolen" your idea (since it is obvious to anyone who has any skill, that nothing in the game was stolen).

Neat!

Regards,

Stephen

harami2000
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Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:23 pm

Ethesis wrote:BTW, I've used this as an example of why you can't assume that just because of identical names or other simularities someone has "stolen" your idea (since it is obvious to anyone who has any skill, that nothing in the game was stolen).

Neat!

*nods*. Always is when things fall into place...

Knew about that "other" Ragnarok from the publication in Ares, but couldn't resist a dig at "Hammer of Thor" for the crazy 360 player game it is...
(Rob's prototype board looks like a dream in comparison

).
*
Was totally oblivious to that history/timeline TSR-side, though!

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:53 am

So, do any of the City of Brass manuscripts come with maps?

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

The Collector's Trove
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:54 am

Howdy All,

There were no new listings last night because I got hit with a thermonuclear migraine at 6:30 last night. I tried to work though it but that only made it worse - that took it to the dry heaves stage. Ugh! I had to sleep until 10:00 PM before the migraine passed.

I will make the last listing on Saturday for scheduling purposes.

Sorry again all for leaving you hanging.

Futures Bright,

Paul

The Collector's Trove The online auction house that features the collections of game designers and artists.

bombadil
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:16 am

My sympathies, Paul. I get them on occasion as well.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:04 pm

I seem to be the only one who can't see the photos of some of the City of Brass items. Maybe the UK eBay site can't like to the US database.

Could someone please post their impressions of the photos, and whether there looks to be any maps included with them?

Paul,

Could you let us know if there are any known missing portions of the manuscripts, or are they believed to be complete?

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

johnhuck
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:18 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:I seem to be the only one who can't see the photos of some of the City of Brass items. Maybe the UK eBay site can't like to the US database.

Could someone please post their impressions of the photos, and whether there looks to be any maps included with them?

Paul,

Could you let us know if there are any known missing portions of the manuscripts, or are they believed to be complete?

I can't see the image on the auction

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 5198039234

due to
Welcome to NEONRAMP.COM i.e.

(anyone else see anything other than a red cross?)

But I'm still happy to bid on it for now :oops:

Blackmoor
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

johnhuck wrote:
mbassoc2003 wrote:I seem to be the only one who can't see the photos of some of the City of Brass items. Maybe the UK eBay site can't like to the US database.

Could someone please post their impressions of the photos, and whether there looks to be any maps included with them?

Paul,

Could you let us know if there are any known missing portions of the manuscripts, or are they believed to be complete?

I can't see the image on the auction

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 5198039234

due to
Welcome to NEONRAMP.COM i.e. [ Image ] (anyone else see anything other than a red cross?)

But I'm still happy to bid on it for now

I can't see it either!

Games can get you through times of no money but money can not get you through times of no games!!

deimos3428
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:23 pm

johnhuck wrote:
mbassoc2003 wrote:I seem to be the only one who can't see the photos of some of the City of Brass items. Maybe the UK eBay site can't like to the US database.

Could someone please post their impressions of the photos, and whether there looks to be any maps included with them?

Paul,

Could you let us know if there are any known missing portions of the manuscripts, or are they believed to be complete?

I can't see the image on the auction

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 5198039234

due to
Welcome to NEONRAMP.COM i.e. [ Image ] (anyone else see anything other than a red cross?)

No, but boy did you give me a wicked idea...incrementing numbers to get a sneak peak... :twisted: ..aww..only up to 101... :cry:

johnhuck
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:25 pm

deimos3428 wrote:No, but boy did you give me a wicked idea...incrementing numbers to get a sneak peak... ..aww..only up to 101...

Keep up! :wink:

The Collector's Trove
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:50 pm

Howdy All,

johnhuck wrote:
deimos3428 wrote:No, but boy did you give me a wicked idea...incrementing numbers to get a sneak peak... ..aww..only up to 101...

Keep up!

No sir, no free previews! I knew you would look John! Well I didn't want you to see the TSR sticker label that is coming up! I hate dealing with those pesky BIN offers. I know how you love TSR sticker labels! :-)

Futures Bright,

Paul

The Collector's Trove The online auction house that features the collections of game designers and artists.

The Collector's Trove
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:52 pm

Howdy All,

I fixed some of the pictures. Lots 80, 81, 88, and 95. Don't know what is going on with them. Let me know if you can see them in the listings now.

Futures Bright,

Paul

The Collector's Trove The online auction house that features the collections of game designers and artists.

harami2000
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 12:03 am

stormber wrote:I fixed some of the pictures. Lots 80, 81, 88, and 95. Don't know what is going on with them. Let me know if you can see them in the listings now.

Working fine now, Paul. (And also on the links above).
thx

The Collector's Trove
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 12:07 am

Howdy All,

The DragonCon 87 To the City of Brass has a map included. It is a complete module.

The other manuscripts are just that, manuscripts, they do not have maps.

To get the maps you need to bid on the lots with maps correponding to the company Rob was working with at the time.

Thus, the Kenzer 1st draft ( LOT 86 ),
Kenzer edit draft ( LOT 87 ),
and Rob's unpublished City of Brass draft ( LOT 88 ),
all belong to the Kenzer City of Brass Maps Notes ( LOT 85 )

I seperated them because it gave equal value to all the other drafts and the single lot of maps a value of their own. Seemed to be the most equitable.

Futures Bright,

Paul

The Collector's Trove The online auction house that features the collections of game designers and artists.

The Collector's Trove
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 12:16 am

Howdy Ian,

mbassoc2003 wrote:I seem to be the only one who can't see the photos of some of the City of Brass items. Maybe the UK eBay site can't like to the US database.

They seem to be working now, let me know.

mbassoc2003 wrote:Could you let us know if there are any known missing portions of the manuscripts, or are they believed to be complete?

Well, they are draft manuscripts. They are completed to the point they were at in the creation process.

The Necromancer stuff is very primordial, the City of Brass was to be a 4 module series and is much different than the others.

The Pied Piper Stuff is getting along but still an outline with a bunch of cool maps and some sketches.

The Kenzer 1st draft is the first portion of the manuscript turned in. Very rough but with a lot of extraneous material.

The Kenzer edited draft came shortly after that and is more compact and organized.

Then Rob's unpublished version came after that, adding some 49,000 words to all previous versions.

etc.

Futures Bright,

Paul

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mbassoc2003
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 6:10 am

Thanks, Paul.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

deimos3428
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Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 11:15 pm

Just my opinion, of course, but this one seems to be the gem of the collection (thus far!). Too often we forget the true meanings of words like "rare" and "vintage". (And provenance! See, I'm learning here...) Also unfortunate that I don't have the $$$. :cry:

cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&a ... 8&rd=1

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