The Collector's Trove Presents The Robert J Kuntz Collection
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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 2:56 pm 
 

Howdy David and Steve,


harami2000 wrote:How so, Stephen? Does the timeframe for this fit into your summer work at TSR?

At present the auction has 1978 stated multiple times and I'd already lobbed in a starter bid...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5198369832


With respect to Steve and David, it has 1978 "multiple times" because that is when Rob said he and Terry designed it. I spent 16 hours! on the phone with Rob going over every item.

harami2000 wrote:Question, aside.

Paul, I noticed that the biography for Rob is a direct cut-and-paste from the forthcoming Lake Geneva Gaming Convention page, Error Occurred While Processing Request , with a few bits and bobs added around the edges.
Did you write the original for that, too?


Yes. It is adapted from my original biography without my permission, either someone cut and pasted it or Rob mailed it to them when requested. That's my text based on information from Allan Grohe's website blurb about Rob (with permission), a long interview with Rob, and Gateways 7 (which is in the auction).

Honestly, I am getting very tired of all the crap about these auctions. Some guy on the Greyhawk Canonfire! website warned people that I was possibly the Eastern Treasure *Trove* (ala the Eastern Treasure *Chest*) and I had changed my name to The Collector's Trove and that I was a notorious eBay scumbag! The guy didn't even go out and do research (there was a link to my eBay user name and feedback), he just attacked blindly.

I have been doing this stuff since 1995 and it never changes. Apparently, the world has a never ending supply of crusaders out to slay windmills! :roll:


Futures Bright,

Paul


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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:10 pm 
 

stormber wrote:Howdy David and Steve,

harami2000 wrote:How so, Stephen? Does the timeframe for this fit into your summer work at TSR?

At present the auction has 1978 stated multiple times and I'd already lobbed in a starter bid...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5198369832


With respect to Steve and David, it has 1978 "multiple times" because that is when Rob said he and Terry designed it. I spent 16 hours! on the phone with Rob going over every item.

Thanks for the confirmation.

harami2000 wrote:Question, aside.

stormber wrote:Paul, I noticed that the biography for Rob is a direct cut-and-paste from the forthcoming Lake Geneva Gaming Convention page, Error Occurred While Processing Request , with a few bits and bobs added around the edges.
Did you write the original for that, too?


Yes. It is adapted from my original biography without my permission, either someone cut and pasted it or Rob mailed it to them when requested. That's my text based on information from Allan Grohe's website blurb about Rob (with permission), a long interview with Rob, and Gateways 7 (which is in the auction).

Honestly, I am getting very tired of all the crap about these auctions.

Grow up, Paul. Was a civil question...

You might want to have a word with them for nicking your text and slapping their copyright message on it, in that case.
*points to the bottom of the page*

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:31 pm 
 

stormber wrote:Honestly, I am getting very tired of all the crap about these auctions. Some guy on the Greyhawk Canonfire! website warned people that I was possibly the Eastern Treasure *Trove* (ala the Eastern Treasure *Chest*) and I had changed my name to The Collector's Trove and that I was a notorious eBay scumbag! The guy didn't even go out and do research (there was a link to my eBay user name and feedback), he just attacked blindly.

Ummm...that's just stupid.  Clearly you're not ETC.  Reasons outlined below in no particular order:

1.  Understands punctuation.
2.  Ships items appropriately.
3.  Is highly knowledgable regarding D&D.
4.  Knows ex-TSR staff and has enough pull to sell their personal stashes.


Windmill

Frequency: Uncommon
No. Appearing: 1-4
AC: -2 (7)
Move: 0"
Hit Dice: 20
No. of Attacks: 4
Damage/Attack: 2-20
Special Attacks: Nil
Special Defenses: Nil
Magic Resistance: Immune to mind affecting spells
Intelligence: None
Alignment: Neutral
Size: Large (30')
XP: 0

Windmills inhabit the plains of Oerth and are stationary automatons of great power.  They may strike up to four times per round with their gigantic fan-blades.  They are immune to mind-affecting spells but take double damage from fire and lightning based attacks.  Their fan blades, if targetted directly, are much more fragile than their solid base.

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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:35 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:Windmill

Frequency: Uncommon
No. Appearing: 1-4
AC: -2 (7)
Move: 0"
Hit Dice: 20
No. of Attacks: 4
Damage/Attack: 2-20
...

(Yeah, uncommon nowadays... :()
*takes a tilt at the endangered species, anyhow*

Thanks for the smile, deimos! :)

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:37 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
deimos3428 wrote:Windmill

Frequency: Uncommon
No. Appearing: 1-4
AC: -2 (7)
Move: 0"
Hit Dice: 20
No. of Attacks: 4
Damage/Attack: 2-20
...

(Yeah, uncommon nowadays... :()
*takes a tilt at the endangered species, anyhow*

Thanks for the smile, deimos! :)

I think I may have made them a wee bit too powerful, in retrospect.  At least there are lots of playtesters around! :)  Would make an interesting golem for a mad wizard...

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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 4:07 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:I think I may have made them a wee bit too powerful, in retrospect. At least there are lots of playtesters around! :)

*looks around*. Yup, there sure are. ;)

Over-powered? Yes, perhaps, but zero XP...

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:13 pm 
 

Howdy David,


harami2000 wrote:
stormber wrote:Honestly, I am getting very tired of all the crap about these auctions.


Grow up, Paul. Was a civil question...


Sorry, I didn't place that line properly, no finger pointed at you. I was refering to the "borrowing" incident by TLG and the crackpot on Canonfire! Note I put, "With repsect to Steve and David..." prior to my answer of your question. Sorry for the intimation of displeasure at your question.

harami2000 wrote:You might want to have a word with them for nicking your text and slapping their copyright message on it, in that case.*points to the bottom of the page*


I suspect Rob or possibly Allan Grohe sent it, if so I can hardly be upset. If it was someone at TLG, then I'd be upset.


Futures Bright,

Paul


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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:16 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
Ethesis wrote:
About 1980 would be my best guess. It is pretty cool, though.

How so, Stephen? Does the timeframe for this fit into your summer work at TSR?

At present the auction has 1978 stated multiple times and I'd already lobbed in a starter bid...


Paul's statement explains a lot.  I was extrapolating from some projects, but Rob was outside of those ....

I'd always wondered how I had proposed a game and it had gone around the design department and then when a game with the same name saw print it had absolutely nothing in common with my proposal -- if you've seen the proposal and Rob's game, Rob's game shows no influence at all from the proposal.

If the game was done before TSR decided to do the board game project, and then added into the product line, it would make lots of sense for it to have nothing in common with the original proposals.  My guess was that Rob did the game as a part of the product line, so it would have been done after the product line was started.

But if Rob did the game, and then it was used for the product line, then it makes sense that it was done before -- as does the fact it bears no signs of having had contact with my approach -- which works if the game was done before I ever did my proposal.

I'd always wondered about that.

I wasn't trying to criticise, it is just that with the "or so" language in there, I felt free to toss in my guess.

My apologies.


Regards,



Stephen

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:26 pm 
 

Howdy Steve and David,


One quick post and then back to work on all of these Greyhawk goodies here.

There were designs of this game going up through Lawrence Schick and Tom Wham in design. Rob said there was a more formal mock up done. That occured post 1978. The map in the auction was initially drawn in 1978 but was edited later throughout the year possibly into 1979. Thus, "...1978 or so..."

Back to work!


Futures Bright,

Paul


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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:27 pm 
 

Ethesis wrote:I was extrapolating from some projects, but Rob was outside of those ....

I'd always wondered how I had proposed a game and it had gone around the design department and then when a game with the same name saw print it had absolutely nothing in common with my proposal -- if you've seen the proposal and Rob's game, Rob's game shows no influence at all from the proposal.

If the game was done before TSR decided to do the board game project, and then added into the product line, it would make lots of sense for it to have nothing in common with the original proposals. My guess was that Rob did the game as a part of the product line, so it would have been done after the product line was started.

But if Rob did the game, and then it was used for the product line, then it makes sense that it was done before -- as does the fact it bears no signs of having had contact with my approach -- which works if the game was done before I ever did my proposal.

I'd always wondered about that.

Thank you, Stephen, for that extra input!
Is always good to hear a bit more about what went on behind the scenes. :)

Yeah, I can understand why that would be a popular theme which came up on more than one occasion.
Would've been good if either (or both) had come to light via TSR; but like so many other "projects" never quite made it.... :(
*
(As it is, I'm sat here still trying to figure out "Hammer of Thor"! *lol*)

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:34 pm 
 

stormber wrote:Sorry, I didn't place that line properly, no finger pointed at you. I was refering to the "borrowing" incident by TLG and the crackpot on Canonfire! Note I put, "With repsect to Steve and David..." prior to my answer of your question. Sorry for the intimation of displeasure at your question.

k.... Thanks, Paul.

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:30 pm 
 

stormber wrote:
harami2000 wrote:You might want to have a word with them for nicking your text and slapping their copyright message on it, in that case.*points to the bottom of the page*


I suspect Rob or possibly Allan Grohe sent it, if so I can hardly be upset. If it was someone at TLG, then I'd be upset.


Wasn't me, I just returned to CA tonight....


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Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 3:57 am 
 

What happened to the City of Brass map auctions? Are there maps included with any of the City of Brass manuscripts? The photos don't seem to be working.


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Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 10:26 am 
 

Howdy,


mbassoc2003 wrote:What happened to the City of Brass map auctions? Are there maps included with any of the City of Brass manuscripts? The photos don't seem to be working.


O.K. here is the scoop:

Rob discovered a number of items just before the postings last Sunday night. These items fit into the structure of the auction so well that I decided to hold off on including them. Some items arrived late, after I had already posted the auctions, and I have just taken pictures of them to ad to the listings. The other items that arrived yesterday, I went over with a fine tooth comb. Then I called Rob last night at 7:30 hoping to get the research done and start posting at 8:30. Well, Rob and I talked about the newly arrived items until 10:30! Thus no listings were made last night.

The good news: I'm ready to list the remainder of the items tonight. I will list them for a 10 day auction that will end on a Sunday night so that all can participate or watch (for you popcorn poppers out there).

Sorry for the delay but the late discovery of certain items put me off schedule.


Futures Bright,

Paul


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Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 10:30 am 
 

Howdy All,


Address number 2:

The stuff posted to TLG website was done by Rob. He told them who wrote it but they did not credit me. Irksome but no big deal. Maybe I'll email them so they will at least plug Rob's auction.

On the bright side, Rob said he liked the write-up and didn't think he could do a better job so he didn't write one himself.


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Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 10:35 am 
 

stormber wrote:The stuff posted to TLG website was done by Rob. He told them who wrote it but they did not credit me. Irksome but no big deal. Maybe I'll email them so they will at least plug Rob's auction.

Good idea, Paul! Could do with a bit more competition to keep our high flyers on their toes! :D

(*g* sorry, y'all... ;))

  


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Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 10:41 am 
 

Howdy All,


Address 3:

Ragnarok has an interesting history at TSR:


1978+ Ragnarok full-sized boxed game designed and developed by Rob and Terry Kuntz. Ultimately rejected as TSR was moving away from those sort of bookshelf games.

1980 Minigames become a strategy used by the company. The Ragnarok minigame is developed by Allen Hammack.


1981 The title to the proposed Ragnarok minigame (product code 4004) is changed to Viking Gods due to the release of a game by the name of Ragnarok put out by SPI.


1982 Viking Gods is released.


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Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:00 pm 
 

stormber wrote:Howdy All,


Address 3:

Ragnarok has an interesting history at TSR:


1978+ Ragnarok full-sized boxed game designed and developed by Rob and Terry Kuntz. Ultimately rejected as TSR was moving away from those sort of bookshelf games.

1980 Minigames become a strategy used by the company. The Ragnarok minigame is developed by Allen Hammack.


1981 The title to the proposed Ragnarok minigame (product code 4004) is changed to Viking Gods due to the release of a game by the name of Ragnarok put out by SPI.


1982 Viking Gods is released.


Futures Bright,

Paul


That explains the rest.  Viking Gods was my original title, but, as I've said, the game was completely different.  Now I understand why even more.

BTW, I've used this as an example of why you can't assume that just because of identical names or other simularities someone has "stolen" your idea (since it is obvious to anyone who has any skill, that nothing in the game was stolen).

Neat!


Regards,



Stephen

  


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Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:23 pm 
 

Ethesis wrote:BTW, I've used this as an example of why you can't assume that just because of identical names or other simularities someone has "stolen" your idea (since it is obvious to anyone who has any skill, that nothing in the game was stolen).

Neat!

*nods*. Always is when things fall into place... :)

Knew about that "other" Ragnarok from the publication in Ares, but couldn't resist a dig at "Hammer of Thor" for the crazy 360 player game it is...
(Rob's prototype board looks like a dream in comparison ;)).
*
Was totally oblivious to that history/timeline TSR-side, though!

  

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Post Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:53 am 
 

So, do any of the City of Brass manuscripts come with maps?


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