The Collector's Trove Presents The Robert J Kuntz Collection
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:44 pm 
 

DL wrote:

It is a shame to see a cracking collection of unique artifacts broken up, but that is the name of the game!


What I was wondering about were the pages from the "Red-Book". There were a few lots of these. Paul, was there a reason these were broken up and not sold as one lot titled "Red-Book"? Just curious...


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:49 pm 
 

grodog wrote:Paul, when you run your stats, I'd be curious to see how many items were bought by Acaeum members and how much of the total pot was bought by us (vs. folks who came in from out of the blue)....

$18481.98 sold on eBay (plus any unsold items, etc.)

I would've said that was mostly Mike <improv>, but is not quite true. :P

$7192.03 - improvstone
$2136.56 - tzelios2002
$1812.60 - invincibleoverlord
$1799.62 - bill77197719
$1525.57 - spivminder
$984.80        - harami2000
$317.95        - joe00819
$294.63        - grodog_of_greyhawk
$262.29        - burntwire
$255.67        - re4321
$211.43        - goldhattedme
$186.91        - masteryaya
$164.14        - worderley
$137.82        - mdr003
$106.24        - malfrick2
$91.00 - bienchen5683
$81.00 - post_war_dreamer
$72.92 - bclarkie
$72.25 - bombadil-tom
$71.50 - mbassoc2003
$60.48 - guido-the-gypsy
$57.30 - trenchclub
$52.00 - thealasildorian
$50.76 - jonb7839
<clip>

*g*. not only did I just squeak the two "biggest" items I thought I had a chance of (tried to keep the three together, but couldn't justify over $120 on an unkeyed map :(), but was spot on budget and serious underbidder in a large number of other auctions- several of which (together) would've crippled me, even though I had to give them a go!
About as good as could've hoped for, from here... : )

  


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:14 pm 
 

items over $50 (in case anyone really wanted to know):

LOT 216  - $3,650.00 - WoG Greyhawk Castle Bottle City Level 1973! - improvstone
LOT 215  - $1,876.76 - Greyhawk Tournament Module Pit of Geburah '76 - tzelios2002
LOT 211  - $886.55 - WoG Orig. Map Lost Caverns of Tsojconth 1972! - improvstone
LOT 155  - $770.00 - Domesday Book 13 Castle & Crusade Society '72 - invincibleoverlord
LOT 208  - $570.75 - Creations Unlimited City of Brass Painting! - spivminder  
LOT 204  - $521.00 - WoG Duchy of Urnst Ruins of the Seer '78 - bill77197719
LOT 158  - $476.00 - D&D GenCon VIII 1975 Tournament Sunken City - invincibleoverlord
LOT 149  - $430.00 - Maze of Zayene 1 Original Artwork 1987 16 Pcs - improvstone
LOT 151  - $430.00 - Maze of Zayene 3 Original Artwork 1987 15 Pcs - improvstone
LOT 152  - $430.00 - Maze of Zayene 4 Original Artwork 1987 12 Pcs - improvstone
LOT 214  - $405.00 - WoG Greyhawk Castle Demonworld Original 1973! - bill77197719
LOT 193  - $394.00 - WoG Wild Coast Dark Druids Adventure 1975 - improvstone
LOT 177  - $374.18 - WoG Wild Coast City of Greyhawk NPC Notes '72 - bill77197719
LOT 191  - $330.09 - WoG Formalhaut Lovecraftian Adventure 1975 - harami2000
LOT 184  - $317.95 - WoG City of Greyhawk Sewers and Catacombs '79 - joe00819  
LOT 080  - $305.03 - RPGA To the City of Brass DragonCon 1987 - invincibleoverlord
LOT 119  - $286.17 - History of D&D Research Notes & Manuscript - improvstone
LOT 157  - $269.12 - D&D Greyhawk 1972 Forces of the Great Kingdom - spivminder  
LOT 156  - $245.71 - D&D '72 Pre-Greyhawk Adventure Map by RJK EGG - spivminder  
LOT 212  - $220.37 - WoG Draft Map Lost Caverns of Tsojconth 1976! - improvstone
LOT 201  - $212.50 - WoG Tin of Rob Kuntz's Original Gaming Dice! - invincibleoverlord
LOT 161  - $186.91 - D&D TSR D&D Supplement I: Greyhawk Annotated - masteryaya
LOT 209  - $177.56 - WoG 7 Cryptical Books of Hsan Adventure '75 - harami2000
LOT 088  - $177.50 - Robert Kuntz's Unpublished City of Brass Ms. - bill77197719
LOT 150  - $158.27 - Maze of Zayene 2 Original Artwork 1987 7 Pcs - burntwire
LOT 182  - $139.50 - WoG City of Greyhawk Evil Mage's Tower! 1973 - grodog_of_greyhawk
LOT 210  - $133.50 - WoG Pirates of the Isle of Ivory Ms. 1974 - harami2000
LOT 190  - $116.04 - WoG Temple of The Latter Day Old Ones 1975 - tzelios2002
LOT 086  - $101.55 - Kenzer & Co Original City of Brass 1st Draft - malfrick2
LOT 147  - $100.00 - 1987 Maze of Zayene Author's Personal Set - spivminder  
LOT 148  - $100.00 - 1987 Garden of the Plantmaster Author's - spivminder  
LOT 121  - $91.00 - TSR AD&D Greyhawk From the Ashes Boxed Set! - bienchen5683  
LOT 192  - $88.00 - WoG The Stalk Adventure Lair of Spider Queen - tzelios2002  
LOT 075  - $86.55 - D&D Dave Arneson's Blackmoor Autographed! - goldhattedme
LOT 185  - $86.00 - WoG Wild Coast Mad Wizard Krazor Adventure - harami2000
LOT 213  - $83.34 - WoG Greyhawk Castle Dragon Level Gygax 1974! - worderley
LOT 205  - $81.00 - WG5 Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure Proof! - post_war_dreamer
LOT 181  - $78.00 - WoG Mtn. of Xwa, The Fire Demon Adventure '77 - improvstone
LOT 118  - $74.13 - D&D Past, Present, and Future File Copy - improvstone
LOT 116  - $72.25 - AD&D Gygax "Tolkien in D&D" Racial Min/Max! - bombadil-tom
LOT 115  - $68.00 - Sorcerer's Scroll Ms. The Dragon #11 '77 1st! - mdr003
LOT 178  - $66.36 - City of Greyhawk 18th Level "Striped Mage" - spivminder  
LOT 163  - $64.00 - Empire Petal Throne City of Nga'la Map 1975 - bill77197719
LOT 164  - $64.00 - Empire Petal Throne Temple Map 1976 - bill77197719
LOT 159  - $63.75 - D&D File Copy Supplement I Greyhawk Contract - harami2000
LOT 142  - $61.13 - Garden of the Plant Master Tharizdun Notes - spivminder  
LOT 175  - $58.88 - WoG Player Roster Calendar of Play 1976 - improvstone
LOT 176  - $57.65 - WoG Wild Coast City of Greyhawk NPC Roster 1973 - harami2000
LOT 200  - $56.92 - WoG Character Sheet for Lord Robilar c. 1976 - bclarkie
LOT 187  - $55.76 - WoG Outdoor Elven Adventure Gnarley Forest - tzelios2002
LOT 195  - $52.00 - WoG Three Ancients of Suloise Adventure Ms. - thealasildorian
LOT 087  - $51.00 - Kenzer & Co Original City of Brass Edit Draft - bill77197719
LOT 093  - $51.00 - TSR Original Board Game Design Ragnarok 1978 - spivminder  
LOT 183  - $51.00 - WoG "Terik's Tower" Wizards' Tower & Dungeon - spivminder  
LOT 186  - $51.00 - WoG Citadel of the Fire Lord Planar Adventure - improvstone
LOT 194  - $51.00 - WoG Orig. Notes Artifacts of the Demonsenders - mbassoc2003
LOT 001  - $50.76 - Creations Unlimited Collector Set Autographed - jonb7839
LOT 189  - $50.66 - WoG Alternate Plane Hand Drawn Color Map 1977 - improvstone

  


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:23 pm 
 

Wow, thats a lot of info David. :o I even finished ahead of Stephen on the list :P, although I think Stephen was counting on winning the Pit of Gebulah and so he didn't bid on a lot of other stuff because he didn't want to over extend himself too much if he one that and a bunch of other stuff. I would pushed harder in a few other areas, but money is a little tight right now so I had to take it easier than I really wanted to. Even with money a little tight right now I would have prefered my total to have been $50.00, but Improvstone sniped me out on the WoG Alternate Plane Hand Drawn Color Map 1977. :twisted: Oh well, just have to make sure I am little more prepared for the next go around. :wink:


===============================================



Aside, Paul wasn't kidding around when he said we acquitted ourselves very well. The total amount of items purchased by the board over $50.00 (if my calculations are correct) was <edited> $13,612.20 <edited> 8O 8O 8O Improvstone obviously bought a ton of stuff, but even if you would take away all his stuff off our total, we still would have spent $6,420.17 :o WOW!!


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:44 pm 
 

Howdy,


invincibleoverlord wrote:What I was wondering about were the pages from the "Red-Book". There were a few lots of these. Paul, was there a reason these were broken up and not sold as one lot titled "Red-Book"? Just curious...


The Red Book is a spiral notebook with pages stuffed in it from all ages of the game. The lots were seperated by geography mainly. Technically, nearly everything sold was stuffed in the Red Book at one time or another!


Futures Bright,

Paul


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:55 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:Wow, thats a lot of info David. :o I even finished ahead of Stephen on the list :P, although I think Stephen was counting on winning the Pit of Gebulah and so he didn't bid on a lot of other stuff because he didn't want to over extend himself too much if he one that and a bunch of other stuff.


Yes, I employed a faulty strategy, and am feeling almost as bad as I did the morning after Election 2004!  There's no amount of beer in the world that will drown my sorrows now.  :cry:

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:18 pm 
 

Does anyone have any issues of the C&C Society "Domesday Book" newsletters? The only info I could find after searching the net was leading me back to the Acaeum.

How rare do you guys think these issues are? The Acaeum states possibly 10 of each issue survive today. Any thoughts?

Paul, I do have a question maybe you could answer. It states that the only time one of these issues ever did come up for auction was #13 back in 97, and it was being auctioned by Rob Kuntz's himself. Was the issue #13 we won a second copy of his, or is it the same copy? Maybe it didn't sell or make reserve back then?

I'd love to have a complete run #'s 1 --13…But can you just imagine what that would take to put together  8O...


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:34 pm 
 

The estimate of "ten of each issue remaining today" was designed to be conservative -- obviously, time has proven that even this estimate was way too optimistic.  The copy of issue #13 auctioned in 97 was the only copy I'd ever heard of.

I, too, would like to know if this is a second copy, or if that auction in 97 never completed.

Foul

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:57 pm 
 

From Stormber's auction:

Membership in this Society was as few as 12 members and never greater than 80


Is it possible that with so few members involved that would have gotten them in the first place, taken in conjunction with the fact that those who did have them are still holding on to them, be a cause that no one until this point has seen any sold? It wasn't like this was something that was released to the general public where someone may have been prone to sell it, this was a pretty elite group of hardcore gamers (most of which ended up being the creators of D&D) who are very likely to be still holding on to them currently. Any thoughts?


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:28 pm 
 

Membership in this Society was as few as 12 members and never greater than 80


So eighty members by issue #13…you'd think more would have surfaced by now. Unless membership in the C&C Society did not include the newsletter, and not all members subscribed. I don't see how, but it is a possibility.

clarkie wrote:

Is it possible that with so few members involved that would have gotten them in the first place, taken in conjunction with the fact that those who did have them are still holding on to them, be a cause that no one until this point has seen any sold? It wasn't like this was something that was released to the general public where someone may have been prone to sell it, this was a pretty elite group of hardcore gamers (most of which ended up being the creators of D&D) who are very likely to be still holding on to them currently. Any thoughts?


Clarkie…sounds likely, now we just need them to give up the goods.  :P


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:46 pm 
 

invincibleoverlord wrote:
Membership in this Society was as few as 12 members and never greater than 80


So eighty members by issue #13…you'd think more would have surfaced by now. Unless membership in the C&C Society did not include the newsletter, and not all members subscribed. I don't see how, but it is a possibility.


I have a feeling most of these were probably disposed of. We are an elite group in that most of us on the Acaeum keep everything gaming wise we get our hands on, just think of all the closet cleanings, spring cleanings, recycling drives, etc have taken place in the last 30 years where one of these bit the dust (so to speak). I'd be surprised if ten TOTAL issues from the entire run have survived. Newsletters, unlike hardbacks, game modules, magazines, etc have limited use and interest to anyone not directly involved in the industry, and frankly a lot of those people at certain points have shown a lack of interest themselves. I bet most of these bit the dust in the mid to late 70's when members were making space for lava lamps, dope bongs, disco records and moon boots...

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:17 am 
 

Howdy All,


invincibleoverlord wrote:Paul, I do have a question maybe you could answer. It states that the only time one of these issues ever did come up for auction was #13 back in 97, and it was being auctioned by Rob Kuntz's himself. Was the issue #13 we won a second copy of his, or is it the same copy? Maybe it didn't sell or make reserve back then?


It is one and the same. Phil Rhodes was going to handle it for Rob. He hyped it a bit in preperation. When Rob asked him how much he thought he'd get for it Phil told Rob "about fifty bucks". So Rob decided not to sell it.


Futures Bright,

Paul


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:38 am 
 

Thanks for the info Paul...


"Its either a wand to cast Bigby's Hand spells or a +3 backscratcher. We're not sure which."

  


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:00 am 
 

invincibleoverlord wrote:Does anyone have any issues of the C&C Society "Domesday Book" newsletters? The only info I could find after searching the net was leading me back to the Acaeum.

(per previous PM: feel free to respond ; )

invincibleoverlord wrote:How rare do you guys think these issues are? The Acaeum states possibly 10 of each issue survive today. Any thoughts?

"probably less than ten"
Personally, I'd say it was pointless to speculate, but clearly there won't be many.

We don't have a clue how many copies of Strategic Review #1 "survive", for example, and by comparison those are in public view.

invincibleoverlord wrote:I'd love to have a complete run #'s 1 --13…But can you just imagine what that would take to put together 8O...

Heh. Could just as easily be $100, $1,000 or $10,000.
Is only really possible to "put together" a run when there's a supply. ;)

The reasons why the current auction went so high should be pretty clear to most people around here. (And the "prestige" factor of being the winner probably rated a good few hundred by itself). Also, whether other issues have any comparable content is unknown: early ones might be "historical interest" only.

However, should a copy of #1 be presented to the ravening hordes (oh, about half-a-dozen of us, I reckon!), am sure that would go quite well, regardless.

(Very much a niche market: Dragon #1 is not).

stormber wrote:It is one and the same. Phil Rhodes was going to handle it for Rob. He hyped it a bit in preperation. When Rob asked him how much he thought he'd get for it Phil told Rob "about fifty bucks". So Rob decided not to sell it.

*g*. $50 might've been a perfectly sensible guess in that context. Just as well Rob asked beforehand!

  


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:41 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
invincibleoverlord wrote:
So eighty members by issue #13…you'd think more would have surfaced by now. Unless membership in the C&C Society did not include the newsletter, and not all members subscribed. I don't see how, but it is a possibility.


I have a feeling most of these were probably disposed of. We are an elite group in that most of us on the Acaeum keep everything gaming wise we get our hands on, just think of all the closet cleanings, spring cleanings, recycling drives, etc have taken place in the last 30 years where one of these bit the dust (so to speak). I'd be surprised if ten TOTAL issues from the entire run have survived. Newsletters, unlike hardbacks, game modules, magazines, etc have limited use and interest to anyone not directly involved in the industry, and frankly a lot of those people at certain points have shown a lack of interest themselves. I bet most of these bit the dust in the mid to late 70's when members were making space for lava lamps, dope bongs, disco records and moon boots...

Mike B.


As I recall, Gary was working as an underwriter and prepared and printed the issues after work on his own time.  You would have to ask him who got issues.


Regards,



Stephen

  


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:43 pm 
 

harami wrote:

(per previous PM: feel free to respond ; )


Sorry, weekends are busy for me I'll drop you a PM…ASAP.

"probably less than ten"
Personally, I'd say it was pointless to speculate, but clearly there won't be many.


Good point, I was just curious if anyone else had any of these. I figured someone might have had an issue tucked away.

Heh. Could just as easily be $100, $1,000 or $10,000.
Is only really possible to "put together" a run when there's a supply.


I know what you're saying :( . We'll supply one so far. :lol:

The reasons why the current auction went so high should be pretty clear to most people around here. (And the "prestige" factor of being the winner probably rated a good few hundred by itself).


I can't speak for others, but as far as a prestige factor, "prestige" never comes into play when deciding a bid for us. Now I will admit a line more like "Dude, that's' a totally insane item and we have to have it for our collection" is more of what drives our bids to higher levels. But no one in our crew is egotistical. And as well... I don't think there are any braggers on this forum (Oh, wait Max :P ). If I had to guess I'd say coming down to the last minutes of a key auction we're all the same. Just a bunch of wide-eyed giddy boys on the edge of our seats hopping to add that rare gem to our collections. Lately though, we've been trying to round ours out a little and have tried to taper it down a little. no such luck thus far :lol:

BTW gang…were almost finished with the new hall, and it should be pretty tightened up within a month including the move. I'll post some pre-pics soon.

Also, whether other issues have any comparable content is unknown: early ones might be "historical interest" only.


Agreed, most probably don't have direct connections to D&D, except via Chainmail. It would be cool to read them over though in hopes of a cool find. We have some IFW's from 69, and they're a fun read. They even have miniatures rules for ancients by Gygax. (i.e. combat with swords, spears, longbow, etc) 8)

However, should a copy of #1 be presented to the ravening hordes (oh, about half-a-dozen of us, I reckon!), am sure that would go quite well, regardless.


Oh yeah, I could see that going to a staggering level. Although concerning what we paid for this copy I'd have to agree with Allan (grodog) that it went rather cheep. I myself thought for sure it was going to top a grand. I guess the interest isn't quite there without any supply to have a market. Regardless I don't care, again value doesn't make me like an item, and like you we're into the historical significance especially on these earlier items. I can't wait to give it a read.

stormber wrote:

It is one and the same. Phil Rhodes was going to handle it for Rob. He hyped it a bit in preperation. When Rob asked him how much he thought he'd get for it Phil told Rob "about fifty bucks". So Rob decided not to sell it.

harami wrote:

*g*. $50 might've been a perfectly sensible guess in that context. Just as well Rob asked beforehand!


What would have been perfectly sensible would have been me knowing about these Gems back in 97, and bidding on them as apposed to Waterdeep Trail Maps :P :lol: . Oh well, that was fun too. Thinking back I cant imagine how much rare stuff must have just passed under our noses, just because it wasn't what we were looking for. Dam Hindsight :evil: :lol: .

BTW, David-

Stormber Wrote:

David (harami), that 1972 hex map is the earliest example of D&D play of any kind, ever! And it was the earliest surviving adventure run by Gary Gygax and played by Rob Kuntz and Ernie Gygax. I think you rightly placed your value on that one!


I thought you won this auction, that's why I congratulated you.

IO wrote:

Yeah, this is one of the coolest things in the auction. Our bid was a little to low and we missed it. It's going to a good home though. It will be taken well care of.


But after seeing your items over $50 posting and checking, the spivminder got it :? . That's just not right. I had a feeling that item had some real significance, and now we know after Paul's posting.

that 1972 hex map is the earliest example of D&D play of any kind, ever!


Hate to see an item like that fall into obscurity…wish you would have won it.


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:51 pm 
 

invincibleoverlord wrote: BTW, David-

Stormber Wrote:

David (harami), that 1972 hex map is the earliest example of D&D play of any kind, ever! And it was the earliest surviving adventure run by Gary Gygax and played by Rob Kuntz and Ernie Gygax. I think you rightly placed your value on that one!


I thought you won this auction, that's why I congratulated you.

IO wrote:

Yeah, this is one of the coolest things in the auction. Our bid was a little to low and we missed it. It's going to a good home though. It will be taken well care of.


But after seeing your items over $50 posting and checking, the spivminder got it :? . That's just not right. I had a feeling that item had some real significance, and now we know after Paul's posting.

that 1972 hex map is the earliest example of D&D play of any kind, ever!


Hate to see an item like that fall into obscurity…wish you would have won it.


I have a sneaking suspicion that that item may not be going off into obscurity, but I am not 100% sure. :?


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:31 pm 
 

Clarkie,

What do you think, An Acaeum member is behind spivminder?  Or someone is putting together a museum?

The screen name being created three years ago on Ebay and remaining inactive all that time is kind of puzzling though. Can someone tell me the point of being secretive in RPG collecting anyway? And I'm not trying to offend I'm just curious. :roll:


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:24 pm 
 

invincibleoverlord wrote:Clarkie,

What do you think, An Acaeum member is behind spivminder? Or someone is putting together a museum?

The screen name being created three years ago on Ebay and remaining inactive all that time is kind of puzzling though. Can someone tell me the point of being secretive in RPG collecting anyway? And I'm not trying to offend I'm just curious. :roll:


Evidently there are some relatively silent collectors.  I guess it adds to their mystique but I'm not sure what else, unless it's Gygax himself whom I could see wanting anonymity while bidding.  If they plan on starting a museum (fantasymuseum anyone?), then they'll need to be a little more outgoing eventually if they want visitors.   :D

  


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:24 am 
 

Howdy All,


Invoices are done! If I missed you please email me at once. There are a few irregularities in the invoicing due to the fact that some people paid for previously won items and then won yet more items.

Thanks for your patience.


Futures Bright,

Paul


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