2nd edition?
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Post Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 5:02 pm 
 

What exactly is 2nd edition AD&D? Is it just the first edition with new rules from unearthed arcana added on or is there alot more to it? Appreciate any info! :?:


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Post Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:20 pm 
 

What do you mean with first edition? D&D or AD&D 1st edition.

I started with AD&D 2nd edition, and the biggest difference between 2nd and pre-2nd edition I always found to be the art. 2nd edition AD&D art is WAY more beautiful then previous versions (ok, I'll have some old-timers beat me up very soon).

  

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Post Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:14 pm 
 

Most of the people who transitioned from 1st to 2nd Ed AD&D found 2nd to be "watered down".  TSR (under new management) was accomodating a continued negative public opinion of D&D by removing most of the controversial elements -- devils, nude drawings, etc.

I never played 2nd Edition.  At the time, I remember thinking that it was a great idea -- taking all the rule changes / suggestions from Dragon magazine, combining it with all the disparate manuals (Unearthed Arcana, etc) along with all the feedback received over the past ten years, and tying it together into a more cohesive system.  I don't believe it quite worked out that way.  Unfortunately for D&D, 1989 was about the time computer games were really picking up steam, and younger players were not being brought into the fold like they were in 1980.

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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:42 am 
 

I play second edition AD&D - find it a good balance between hardcore AD&D and d20.

It gives you options to personalize your characters, but starting from diverse "classes" and letting them belong to them and not building something so similar that they overlap.

In fact, second edition was made to streamline the system into something more cohesive and organic - and I think thay did a good job in this field. Too bad that their effort was killed by computer games... and by She Who Must Not Be Named... :evil: :evil: :evil:


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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:54 am 
 

Seems you need this booklet here: AD&D 2nd edition preview
(from this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5192435096  )
...or just get yourself a 2E PHB, they are cheap enough.

I started with 2nd Edition and bought 1st Edition to expand. While it is basically 1E with UA, WSG, DSG put in, it also has some differences. There's only one THACO, not one for every AC. There proficiencies from WSG, DSG. Assassin, Monk, Barbarian, Cavalier and Thief Acrobat classes got the axe, Illusionist was pepped up to be just another Wizard specialist (along with necromancer, transmuter, enchanter etc...) with the same spellprogression as a MU. There's different specialty priests and clerics. Ranger was changed, Bard is a core class (no druid spells, but limited wizard ones.) There's no more Comeliness score. All spells got organized into school (for MUs) or spheres (for priests). No more Half orc in the PHB. More combat rules/options...

2E and 1E mesh very well and conversion form one to the other is almost trivial.

  

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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 5:19 am 
 

1st Edition AD&D is the development of the game Gygax, Arneson, Kuntz, Ward and Blume created in the 70's. 2nd Edition AD&D is a cheap commercial rip-off invented by Buck Roger's fat ugly daughter in an attempt to squeeze money out of TSR. 3rd Edition is a bad attempt by Wizards of the Coast to resuscitate a dead horse by further flogging it. What is left is a mangled pulp feeding D20 maggots, and a fond memory kept alive by 30 somethings.


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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 5:53 am 
 

rosenkav wrote:I play second edition AD&D - find it a good balance between hardcore AD&D and d20.


And yes, if you're asking yourself, the one in photo is a 1st edition DM screen.

I do reuse items  :lol:


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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 6:26 am 
 

Wow,

I'm not getting beaten up by oldies for playing 2nd edition AD&D, I'm apparantly also the follower of cheap commercial rip-off by some fat woman :(

The Eye of the Beholder series was what got me to roleplay in the first place, wanting to replace limited computer possibilities with unlimited roleplayfantasy. I also loved the Baldur's gate series, but I suspect I'll find few compatriot on this forum for that enjoyable game.

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 6:42 am 
 

Wow, fluff... you got into D&D because of the Eye of the Beholder games, too? No wonder we get along so well. :P Those games are still on my list of favorites, and I still have most of EoB2 memorized. In fact, I still have it installed. I remember being fascinated by character creation. Er, anyway... sorry for the interrupt. *hides* :?


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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 6:56 am 
 

fluffmaister wrote:The Eye of the Beholder series was what got me to roleplay in the first place, wanting to replace limited computer possibilities with unlimited roleplayfantasy. I also loved the Baldur's gate series, but I suspect I'll find few compatriot on this forum for that enjoyable game.


talking of computer games influencing role-playing, we started to play AD&D 1E about the same time as a friend of mine got a game on the Oric-1 (anyone remember them? :D)...the game was called "hell's temple" and it was AMAZING. i was the only one of the group who managed to make it down the the very last level (i think it was level 27 or something) and whoever the baddie was at the end - i got my butt kicked good-stylee, but it was an achievement and it was down to that that i felt that my very first character just had to be a Paladin, as i wanted to rid the world of its evil! :D

so there you go, hows that for influence! the other thing that reinforced my RPG influence - somewhat later, as we grew older and our hobbies expanded into other stuff, was the animated film "Fire and Ice" by Ralph Bakshi (1983), he being the one who had the original stab at doing the part-animated Lord of the Rings film way back... (1978)

not everyone can be OD&D based you know. the younger folk prb missed that wave and caught the next one after 1E.....it happens, they like it and thats all there is to it. if we all liked the same thing, man life WOULD be boring! :)

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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 7:09 am 
 

It's like when you're talking of your favourite football team I suppose...  :lol:

Despite the Ugly Fat Woman we all despise, in fact, and though I loved the first edition and its products, IMHO the best things in AD&D have been the Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft campaigns - 1987 for FR, 1990 for the latter. In 1987 they began working on the second edition of the rules, and launched them in 1989.

I can't determine if the project of the new rules was born before the UFW or after her entrée, but I bet that a lot of projects were under way at that moment... and I'm prone to believe that the 2nd edition rules was one of them, though the 2.5 rules (the totally black with illustration on cover hardbacks) show a more definite departure from the 1st edition instead.

I agree with mbassoc's necromantic epilogue tho... I think that the true spirit of those AD&D rules have been completely wiped off by the transition to third edition. D20 is NOT AD&D for me - maybe it's more modern, maybe it's better, but it's completely another game, despite its name.


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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 8:21 am 
 

rosenkav wrote:It's like when you're talking of your favourite football team I suppose... :lol:

Despite the Ugly Fat Woman we all despise, in fact, and though I loved the first edition and its products, IMHO the best things in AD&D have been the Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft campaigns - 1987 for FR, 1990 for the latter. In 1987 they began working on the second edition of the rules, and launched them in 1989.

I can't determine if the project of the new rules was born before the UFW or after her entrée, but I bet that a lot of projects were under way at that moment... and I'm prone to believe that the 2nd edition rules was one of them, though the 2.5 rules (the totally black with illustration on cover hardbacks) show a more definite departure from the 1st edition instead.

I agree with mbassoc's necromantic epilogue tho... I think that the true spirit of those AD&D rules have been completely wiped off by the transition to third edition. D20 is NOT AD&D for me - maybe it's more modern, maybe it's better, but it's completely another game, despite its name.

Though I'm one of the aforementioned oldies that used to shun all things 2nd ed, I have to say that history has a way of repeating itself.  After about 15 years, the oldies have more or less excepted 2nd edition into the fold, mostly because we're busy taking shots at 3rd, 3.5, and d20. ;)

2nd Edition "folk", your job as newcomers to the holy conclave of oldies (HCO), is to continue the tradition of mocking all things new and evil.

As far as UA/WSG/DSG are concerned, that's ancient history.  The "1.5" books are now part of the accepted doctrine.

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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 1:30 pm 
 

Thanks for the info guys-I wonder where AD&D would be today if it had remained the first edition only with only slight rule additions over the last couple decades-certainly more unified if nothing else!


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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 2:20 pm 
 

1st edition AD&D was always my favorite, and still is.  I find DMing with the 3E rules cumbersome.  And "say good-bye to your THA0", like that's an improvement?  The d20 system has taken all the fun out of the die system, IMO.  I LOVE the percentile dice.  Screw the skill points system.  I much prefer having thieves throw the percentiles.

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 5:45 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:1st Edition AD&D is the development of the game Gygax, Arneson, Kuntz, Ward and Blume created in the 70's. 2nd Edition AD&D is a cheap commercial rip-off invented by Buck Roger's fat ugly daughter in an attempt to squeeze money out of TSR. 3rd Edition is a bad attempt by Wizards of the Coast to resuscitate a dead horse by further flogging it. What is left is a mangled pulp feeding D20 maggots, and a fond memory kept alive by 30 somethings.



Agreed.  Having started my real gaming career (outside of a few brief encounters) with 2nd Edition, I have to say, that system is terrible.  It's damn near unplayable.  

And having recently begun collecting 1E stuff and playing in an OD&D game, I also have to say, the OD&D ruleset is far and away the best, period.



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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 6:34 pm 
 

I grew up on first edition, so that will always be my favorite. As far as which is better, I think that 1ed was better for gamers... the game play was pretty simple and smooth (if you let it be).
2ed showed promise, it's great for role-players that really want to "create" their character, but trying to actually play it... all the rules and tons of "extras" bogged the game down. (my opinion)
I also thought the fighter class characters were able to start out very powerful in 2ed, with the weapon specialization, proficiencies, etc.... you had a bunch of indestructible low level fighters that could wade through a orc raiding party with little difficulty.

Never played 3ed.

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 8:17 pm 
 

I must be the lone dissenter in the bunch...I enjoy 3rd edition.

1e and 2e had some memorable moments (and deaths), some my own and some my friends.
Trying to get a group together once a month to play one style of game is tough enough, but to have to refamiliarize ourselves with the "old" way of playing is going to get confusing damn quick, especially for our newbie player (one of the "old dog's" wives - an unorganized person to begin with).

Doesn't hurt having a friend on one of the playtest teams, either.

Quick edit - Another reason I enjoy 3rd edition is the deadliness of combat. A thinking person has more of a chance(IMHO).


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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 8:32 pm 
 

2nd edition comes with a lot of extras, that's for sure. That why I don't use all the rules. I actually only use the core books, just for simplicities sake....maybe I should try 1st edition some time :D

Having played many different systems at Gencon in London and many different games at friends and stuff, I have one opinion about roleplaying that still sticks for me (wonder how many people will agree with this one.....)

It's NOT the system,
It's the people you play with!

The rest of the people at the table, their dedication to the game, their willing to roleplay their character, their commitment to have fun and the chemistry as you as a group have determine the gamingexperience. NOT whether you play 1st, 2nd or 3rd edition, shadowrun, werewolf, rolemaster, vampire, CoC or any of that other stuff that's out there.

Just my opinion

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:17 pm 
 

I started playing Basic D&D back in '81, but that quickly morphed into playing AD&D as it was a much richer game system. My group quickly switched to 2nd edition when it came out years later, missed the demons & devils, but they were simple enough to put back in.

I'm not really sure why a person would play 1st edition AD&D, except for nostalgia's sake maybe. The rules are a chaotic mess, and not just for the number of books needed. Take the DMG, for example... One of the most disorganized rule books I've ever seen, and I've seen plenty... 2nd edition rules are basically the same, just much more cohesive.

2nd edition AD&D also fixed some glaring problems with the original rules. Weighing items in "gold pieces"...? 2nd ed. sensibly uses pounds. Remember Deities & Demi-Gods, which encouraged player character god-hunting expeditions? 2nd edition cleaned that up nicely in Legends & Lore with the concept of avatars. Wimpy dragons? Characters thought twice before taking on 2nd ed. dragons. Your character had no abilities beyond what was listed in the character class? 2nd ed. added a badly-needed skill system -Which the lack thereof was always D&D/AD&D's Original Sin...

I haven't played d20 D&D yet, but I'll give it a shot at a convention some time. The concept of Feats is interesting, and I like the increased emphasis on skills. What I find odd is attempting to use the d20 rules in modern/"realistic" backgrounds to which the heroics-based rules hardly seem suited. Oh, well...

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:26 pm 
 

I'm inclined to agree with fluff. I've had fun playing the original D&D when I tried it, second edition, and third (even though I'm not too fond of what they did to it...). It was more about the people and the story than the rules and regs. And, also, I've had some pretty crappy experiences in 2nd edition and, yes, *gasp* Planescape. I played in a horrible, god awful PS campaign that made me want to cry. But, it was purely the DM's (mis)interpretation of it and not the setting itself.

I agree, too, that 2nd edition is bogged with add-ons and extras that, in some of the games I've played in, have been argued about for hours. But, right now I'm playing in a very relaxed little campaign that actually borrows ideas and rules from all editions... kind of picking and choosing what works well. It's very enjoyable and there are very, very minimal arguments. Again, this might be due to the fact that the players mesh so well and generally have the same take on the rules, but regardless... All those books are more like guildelines, anyway. Right? Like fluff said, no need to use all of the rules and extras. :)


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