Feedback questions
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Post Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:07 pm 
 

When is it okay to leave negative feedback?  Is there a rule against retaliatory negative feedback?  I had one customer that came up with excuse after excuse as to why the money order hadn't arrived, and I finally just filed an NPB and he got upset with me (I had contacted him repeatedly, and we went through the gamut of "I never saw your email", "There was a sickness in my family", and "I confused your auction with another").  Over 5 weeks elapsed before I finalled NPBed him.

I want to leave him negative feedback -- my first ever after over 400 transactions -- but I worry about a retaliatory strike by him even though he clearly didn't obey the instructions in my auction.

I now know why I stopped taking money orders for a while =/  I've since changed my policy such that any money order purchases must be USPS money orders; sent with delivery confirmation; and received within 10 days of auction close.  PayPal purchasers don't have quite so many built in excuses available....

  


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:10 pm 
 

pull a couger, mark the 89th day down someplace and remember it.  When that day comes slam his ass at the very end of the day come the 90th day he can't leave feedback.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:45 pm 
 

BaconTastesGood wrote:When is it okay to leave negative feedback? Is there a rule against retaliatory negative feedback?

IMO, sounds like you've got more than enough reason to point out your (attempted) transaction to other eBay buyers and sellers, there.
Was it a high-value transaction, or lot than sold higher than expected, too?

And no, there's nothing you can do to stop them negging you back, should they wish to do so. All you get is one opportunity to add a further feedback comment, then they get the last "say".
(example: eBay Feedback Profile for harami2000 :roll:)

But who said the world was perfect...?
(Well; relative to eBay perhaps?)

  


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:47 pm 
 

cougarrinard not a pleaseant transaction, ignored e-mails, then left bad feedback block wipe
Seller   cougarrinard ( 3988)   Jan-06-05 09:50  5926766971  
Reply by harami2000: REPORTED SELLER FOR F/BACK EXTORTION & LEFT NEUTRAL F/BACK-REC'D RETALIATORY NEG   Jan-06-05 10:16  
Follow-up by cougarrinard: no contact to rectify just bad FB so I cannot recommend so I left - FB sorry 4 U


lol what a fucken moron

Harami probably spends more on D&D stuff then all of Cougers other customers combined, good way to loose a AAA+ customer lol.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:13 am 
 

Bah.  So basically, unless someone is just feeling super guilty, a neg will always result in a counter neg.  Sigh.  And it's "he-said/she-said", no matter what evidence you have to back up your story.  I've never received a neg, never given one, and the only neutral I received was from some doof that backed out of payment and thought that he was "suppsoed" to give a neutral since we mutually agreed not to follow through with the transaction (he mislabeled his auction as accepting PayPal, so when I won and he demanded a money order there was considerable confusion).

It was a small amount ($16) so it's no great loss, but it still pisses me off to no end that this gent has the audacity to claim that I've been "unreasonable" even though I basically didn't start seriously asking about payment until a MONTH had elapsed.  

Eh, well, I guess I go from 100% to 99.3% =/  But I'll see if I can't "Cougar him" instead =)

  


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Post Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:19 am 
 

You could just mail his a dead cat or something.......  or used cat litter?  lol  something that will stink up his house.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:31 am 
 

BaconTastesGood wrote:Eh, well, I guess I go from 100% to 99.3% =/ But I'll see if I can't "Cougar him" instead =)


yeah the feedback system is a load of shit. i have 1 negative. i sold some guy a book. i sent him weekly reminders for SIX WEEKS, and then he turned round to say he had bid on the wrong book  8O  8O  8O i was very polite & friendly all the way along (most ppl will know how i am who have dealt with me before). he said he would then pay, so i left it FOUR WEEKS and no payment, so i wrote and said as i hadnt had payment i would be getting ebay to issue an NPB, which i did and still no reply so i requested a credit and left a negative saying that the guy had done nothing but waste my time. two days later i got a negtive back saying "bad comms" i mean WTF is that all about??!!  8O

what an arse that lad was!

but there ya go. its a stupid system if it allows retaliatory things like that. i have seen much worse things, so i guess i count myself very lucky to that degree.

in the end, anyone worth their salt looking at your feedback, will see the stupid negs for what they are anyway.



  

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:32 am 
 

The system should NOT work like it does - everyone feedbacking at the end of the transaction - I mean, it was intended to have sellers put their feedback immediately after being paid, and buyers making theirs after receiving the item.

Someone - like the german guy I bought my Silver Box from - actually does act in this way - I received a warm positive immediately after paying.

Of course this method leaves you open to a negative feedback - but as the system is based on trust, if everyone behaves honestly this should not occur. Alas, we don't live in a perfect world... and some_piece_of_shit happens.


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Post Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:08 am 
 

Far from perfect. But a better method for feedback (in my opinion) would be for eBay to modify the system so that the buyer was unable to leave feedback until the seller had left theirs.

Sellers would not be able to pursue a policy of feedback extortion. They might end up with a few more negs. But it would be more of an incentive to get it things right.

Visibility of feedback scores based on feedback left, received and total would also help. With the ability to block buyers who seem to have a habit of finding fault.

If a NPB warning is given and not subsequently removed before the 90 day limit (or whatever it is), then this should result in an automatic neg (if the seller hasn't done so already) where the buyer is blocked from leaving feedback in return.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:34 am 
 

johnhuck wrote:Far from perfect. But a better method for feedback (in my opinion) would be for eBay to modify the system so that the buyer was unable to leave feedback until the seller had left theirs.

Sellers would not be able to pursue a policy of feedback extortion. They might end up with a few more negs. But it would be more of an incentive to get it things right.

Visibility of feedback scores based on feedback left, received and total would also help. With the ability to block buyers who seem to have a habit of finding fault.

If a NPB warning is given and not subsequently removed before the 90 day limit (or whatever it is), then this should result in an automatic neg (if the seller hasn't done so already) where the buyer is blocked from leaving feedback in return.


Wow, that is about as well thought out system, that I have ever seen presented. I don't think you could make a much better system than that. :D Maybe you should send your ideas to Ebay. :wink:


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Post Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:37 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:Wow, that is about as well thought out system, that I have ever seen presented. I don't think you could make a much better system than that. :D Maybe you should send your ideas to Ebay. :wink:

Thanks. :oops:

I'm sure it needs a few more checks and balances.

And I've already sent the ideas to eBay.  But no reply after the initial acknowledgment. :roll:

  


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Post Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:01 am 
 

johnhuck wrote:Far from perfect. But a better method for feedback (in my opinion) would be for eBay to modify the system so that the buyer was unable to leave feedback until the seller had left theirs.

Sellers would not be able to pursue a policy of feedback extortion. They might end up with a few more negs. But it would be more of an incentive to get it things right.

Visibility of feedback scores based on feedback left, received and total would also help. With the ability to block buyers who seem to have a habit of finding fault.

If a NPB warning is given and not subsequently removed before the 90 day limit (or whatever it is), then this should result in an automatic neg (if the seller hasn't done so already) where the buyer is blocked from leaving feedback in return.


Good idea...but let's take it a little further:

Perhaps Ebay could somehow modify the system so that no feedback is actually visible or posted until BOTH the seller and the buyer have left feedback.  I wonder if say the seller gets the payment and leaves feedback could that feedback be held in a "feedback bank" of sorts until the buyer leaves his feedback.  Then Ebay posts them both at the same time.  

This would also keep the buyer from extorting feedback.  This happened to me a couple of times when I started out.  I sold.  The buyer paid.   I left feedback.  The buyer got his item.  Then mailed me reqeusting his money back or he would leave a negative.  On one occasion, I am certain that buyer did receive his goods since THE PACKAGE WAS TRACKED!!!  Thinking back, he never did leave feedback.  I wonder what became of him....Gotta go back and check his ID!


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Post Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:18 am 
 

morgansurname wrote:  Good idea...but let's take it a little further:

Perhaps Ebay could somehow modify the system so that no feedback is actually visible or posted until BOTH the seller and the buyer have left feedback. I wonder if say the seller gets the payment and leaves feedback could that feedback be held in a "feedback bank" of sorts until the buyer leaves his feedback. Then Ebay posts them both at the same time.

This would also keep the buyer from extorting feedback. This happened to me a couple of times when I started out. I sold. The buyer paid.  I left feedback. The buyer got his item. Then mailed me reqeusting his money back or he would leave a negative. On one occasion, I am certain that buyer did receive his goods since THE PACKAGE WAS TRACKED!!! Thinking back, he never did leave feedback. I wonder what became of him....Gotta go back and check his ID!


I have mentioned that exact same idea before (a long time ago somewhere on these forums).  John's idea is good too. . . it just goes to show that it is fairly easy to come up with viable ways to improve the system.  

Regarding your suggestions morgan . . .  the feedback bank would have to be inclusive of all current transaction and not become visible until all feedback was left.   So, if a buyer purchases 10 items - then both the buyer and seller would have to leave feedback for everything so that a "neg" couldn't be held back till later.  Ebay could simplify this by giving an "option" to leave feedback for a person "all at once" (it all only counts for one postive anyway - if you want to leave personalized feedback for each item, then you would be able to as well.


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Post Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:48 am 
 

beyondthebreach wrote:
morgansurname wrote: Good idea...but let's take it a little further:

Perhaps Ebay could somehow modify the system so that no feedback is actually visible or posted until BOTH the seller and the buyer have left feedback. I wonder if say the seller gets the payment and leaves feedback could that feedback be held in a "feedback bank" of sorts until the buyer leaves his feedback. Then Ebay posts them both at the same time.

This would also keep the buyer from extorting feedback. This happened to me a couple of times when I started out. I sold. The buyer paid. I left feedback. The buyer got his item. Then mailed me reqeusting his money back or he would leave a negative. On one occasion, I am certain that buyer did receive his goods since THE PACKAGE WAS TRACKED!!! Thinking back, he never did leave feedback. I wonder what became of him....Gotta go back and check his ID!


I have mentioned that exact same idea before (a long time ago somewhere on these forums). John's idea is good too. . . it just goes to show that it is fairly easy to come up with viable ways to improve the system.

Regarding your suggestions morgan . . . the feedback bank would have to be inclusive of all current transaction and not become visible until all feedback was left.  So, if a buyer purchases 10 items - then both the buyer and seller would have to leave feedback for everything so that a "neg" couldn't be held back till later. Ebay could simplify this by giving an "option" to leave feedback for a person "all at once" (it all only counts for one postive anyway - if you want to leave personalized feedback for each item, then you would be able to as well.
I like it!!!


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Post Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:50 am 
 

that sounds like a very sensible suggestion to me, but then, when have ebay ever done anything sensible?

go figure...



  


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Post Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:52 am 
 

lol ebay would probably wanan charge you .25 cents for the option

  


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Post Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:59 am 
 

This isn't exactly a feedback related question, but it does pertain to eBay (kind of).

Back in mid-February I sold a cheap book through Half.com for about $2.50. I made shipment the next day, but did not insure the package or purchase delivery confirmation (I typically don't for such small-value items).

I neither left nor received feedback, nor had any communication with the buyer at any point.  

Today, I received notification from Half.com that the credit card payment for the book had been reversed (a chargeback). They've asked me to provide proof of delivery, which I obviously cannot do. So, I'm just assuming I'll have to eat the shipping costs, give back the payment I received, and lose my book as well.

The guy who bought the book has a 64 feedback rating (100% positive).

My question is should I contact this guy (out of curiosity, really) and ask him what happened? Or should I just let things go and hope I don't get dinged with a negative FB within the next 3 weeks or so?

Any other thoughts on the matter, or on how I should proceed?

  

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:41 pm 
 

well it should have already been courtesy on his part to notify you that things had gotten to such a point that he was doing a chargeback..... i would be msg'ing him with WTF??!! about this point :)

i would certainly ask him what the problem was!



  


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Post Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:56 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:well it should have already been courtesy on his part to notify you that things had gotten to such a point that he was doing a chargeback..... i would be msg'ing him with WTF??!! about this point :)


Yeah, that was exactly my initial reaction, too! I would have expected that if the book never showed up or there was some other problem, he would have contacted me directly to mutually resolve the situation.

If the guy had a poor feedback rating, I may have suspected he was scamming me, knowing full well I couldn't prove delivery. But considering his feedback rating and the cheapness of the item, I wouldn't think he'd go to the trouble of ripping someone off for a measly $2.50 book.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:00 pm 
 

shadowfax17 wrote:
killjoy32 wrote:well it should have already been courtesy on his part to notify you that things had gotten to such a point that he was doing a chargeback..... i would be msg'ing him with WTF??!! about this point :)


Yeah, that was exactly my initial reaction, too! I would have expected that if the book never showed up or there was some other problem, he would have contacted me directly to mutually resolve the situation.

If the guy had a poor feedback rating, I may have suspected he was scamming me, knowing full well I couldn't prove delivery. But considering his feedback rating and the cheapness of the item, I wouldn't think he'd go to the trouble of ripping someone off for a measly $2.50 book.


well there is only one way to find out :D



  
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