Here are a few websites with their own grading system so check it out:  Page not found | The Dragon's Trove  404 - Page Not Found - Noble Knight Games   The following below is one from Hitpointe. SW = Shrinkwrapped (a new item)  MT = Mint (new condition, without shrinkwrap)  NM = Near-Mint (basically mint, with one or two minor flaws)  EX = Excellent (more than two minor flaws, but still very nice)  VG = Very-Good (some noticible wear or flaws; not a showpiece, but looks decent)  GD = Good (a well-used copy, worn but not "beat-up")  FR = Fair (heavily worn or "beat-up", but still intact and playable)  PR = Poor (very "beat-up" or damaged, torn, taped, etc. Still playable, but not pretty)   Hope that helps. Now a problem with most grading systems is for example, what if an item is in mint condition but has a name written inside? Would you called it Mint WITH Writing or would you automatically drop the grade down to like VG, etc??

Damn... Now I know how those guys who work on the middle east peace process feel... Just when there's Peace, someone up and starts it all over again!     Okay, how about this... let's start a NEW thread and not make it about one guy's grading (poor, good or otherwise) and make it more objective... otherwise we run the danger of this becoming alt.acaeum.flamewars.       I do think it's a worthy discussion (standards for grading though) For what that's worth.  -Jon

In my opinion, the best way to judge the condition of an item is to look at the picture(s) provided. If there aren't pictures then "buyer beware" since the rating of an items condition is quite subjective as dcs has also indicated.   As far as the condition on the outside vs. the inside, I would recommend rating each separately, just to be thorough and fair to the prospective buyers (The rating being relevant to the physical condition, not the poor quality of the product, as is the case with some non-TSR products;).   With respect to the name being written on the inside of an item that would be otherwise M my two cents would be: M-exterior, EX-interior, only due to the signature being written on the inside. Some might disagree, thus provide a picture, or pictures, and a disclaimer indicating that this is your opinion not necessarily everyone elses.  Here's how I classify an items condition:  Like New, Mint (M) - Usually shrink-wrapped unless it was not originally, near perfect condition.  Note SW does not mean M!  SW can be removed but item should be bagged and boarded if applicable.  Near Mint (NM) - Never used, but might show some slight shelf-wear.  Excellent (EX) - Shows wear, but not much. No stains. Maybe a name (of previous owner) in pencil or pen. Sometimes a perforated page will be separated, but it will be included. Sometimes a little bit of staple rust, but not much.   Very Good (VG) - Shows wear, but is fully usable. Maybe age discoloration, maybe some pencil marks from previous owner. More cover wear, often a perforated page is separated but included.   Good (G) - Shows a fair amount of use. Complete and usable, but previous owner left his imprint.  Poor (P) - Probably missing parts and/or shows considerable wear.  Unpunched (UP) - For items with cardboard counters, this rating indicates that the pieces are still in their original cardboard sheets.  Some could be "hanging" but not completely separated.  The game has probably not been played (could be difficult without the counters).  Punched (PU) - For items with cardboard counters.  Some or all of the counters have been punched out of the cardboard sheet.  The game has usually been played.  Counted (CT) - For items with counters or other small components, this rating indicates that all pieces are present or specifically mentioned as missing.  Collector's Quality (CQ) - This item is complete, unmarked, and in at least EX condition.  All NM and M items are also CQ, but not all EX items are CQ, since some EX items might have minor writing or a separated page.  Hope this helps!

dcs wrote: I tend to agree with you about the grading; however, grading is often subjective, and since Paul has been forthright about the defects in the modules he's selling it's hard to be critical. Grading is subjective; while a list of defects is objective and you should bid based on the latter if at all possible.

 Hi David-  What makes it tough as a prospective buyer is wondering if the other items listed as NM have similar defects or not if no additional information is available in the description. Sometimes a picture on the internet is not good enough to see these details. The buyer relies heavily on description and condition grading. A little research of the sellers auctions can give you a decent idea of their grading standards. Grading is definitely a subjective art, but there is a pretty obvious difference between lets say MT (Mint) items and (VG) Very Good items.   Another downside to loose grading is the difference bidders are willing to pay for better condition items vs. lesser quality items. If I know an item is not up to par grading wise I can assume someone else with a little more cash might believe it is as advertised. Kinda a bummer when you have wanted one of those items for some time.  Later. Adam

That really had to stink! Definitely the seller is at fault for not saying in the auction that the T1-4 is a photocopy! Also I think it was doug that mentioned that its best to judge the item by its picture. Well in some cases it is like if the seller has large scans of the item. Sometimes some sellers have small little pictures in which case its hard to note any defects.

That shows you guys, be very cautious when bidding on auctions with no pictures!! I tend to avoid auctions with no pictures unless I know the person or have had dealings with the person selling the particular item.

Sorry All I loaded my avatar, and  it was the size of the whole page I had to redo it so that is how this post go there too.   If anyone wants an Avatar, I have experience with these things and message boards so let me know I will try to help you out. As I am in charge of the avatar section on an Outdoor Message Board.  ( please have an onage for me to work with, as the images i have on the other board are all outdoor sports related, and all of my work is copywrited that I use for my own.)