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The Rares, non collecting issue.
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GamersRest[FNG]
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:53 am

I imagine the main reason why modules like Palace of the Vampire Queen and Dwarven Glory are so valuable is due to thier rarity. My question is, were these actually good adventures to play? This goes for many of the ultra rares. Has anyone on the forum actually used these in a regular game? If so, would you consider them "good" modules?

My recollections of some of the early modules (TSR ones at least) was that some were incredibly fun (GDQ, B4, A1-4, I6) and other were just plain silly (B3, B8, S3). I hope to one day get my grubby hands on some of the early works, but my insatiable desire to play would drive me to run one if the quality was decent.

~jeff

killjoy32
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:04 pm

GamersRest[FNG] wrote:I imagine the main reason why modules like Palace of the Vampire Queen and Dwarven Glory are so valuable is due to thier rarity. My question is, were these actually good adventures to play? This goes for many of the ultra rares. Has anyone on the forum actually used these in a regular game? If so, would you consider them "good" modules?

My recollections of some of the early modules (TSR ones at least) was that some were incredibly fun (GDQ, B4, A1-4, I6) and other were just plain silly (B3, B8, S3). I hope to one day get my grubby hands on some of the early works, but my insatiable desire to play would drive me to run one if the quality was decent.

~jeff

hey jeff

the last module i DM'd was B4 - the players had a great time of it. was quite pleased at how well it went tbh. they are currently playing B2 (they ended up at the keep after being chased there by wild hillmen who were after their food)....that one is also going very well.

i have DM'd I6 before and managed to kill 1/2 the playing group - but was a fantastic game and the EIGHT players playing thought so too.

i also did G1-2-3, D1-3 and Q1 - everyone got all the way through and lasted til they got to lolth and all bar one died (the thief ran off) - a thoroughly enjoyable game was had by all there - but that series took almost six months of gaming to conclude.....

i DO plan to DM vampire queen tho. i read it up and it sounds cool enough to me. my kinda "rough module". will keep you posted on how it goes....

Al

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Badmike
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:23 pm

GamersRest[FNG] wrote:I imagine the main reason why modules like Palace of the Vampire Queen and Dwarven Glory are so valuable is due to thier rarity. My question is, were these actually good adventures to play? This goes for many of the ultra rares. Has anyone on the forum actually used these in a regular game? If so, would you consider them "good" modules?

My recollections of some of the early modules (TSR ones at least) was that some were incredibly fun (GDQ, B4, A1-4, I6) and other were just plain silly (B3, B8, S3). I hope to one day get my grubby hands on some of the early works, but my insatiable desire to play would drive me to run one if the quality was decent.

~jeff

This is an interesting question. I have to chime and and say I feel most of the rares I have read through or gamed are not very good or playable. I actually ran a group through R1-R4 in their original form (Not as the collected version I12). They were merely ok, they played exactly like a tournament (duh, that's what they were), with little continuity or eye towards details. They didn't fit well into my campaign, I had to shoehorn them in (of course I was famous for shoehorning EVERYTHING written into my campaign in those days). I also ran the RPGA3 and 4 series in their form as C4-C5....again, except for the Celtic feel, I felt there was little to recommend them. I think Rahasia (RPGA 1 and 2) is a good low level adventure in it's form as B7. I also remember running Blackmoor, the original printed booklet, as an adventure/module. We had a lot of fun with it but truthfully it's when we were just starting out, so I think we would have had fun with ANY adventure we ran in those days
Most adventures are products of the times. Most adventures older than 25 years old rarely hold up the the realities of expectations from today's gamers (this is representative of most forms of media....comics today are much more complicated, better artwork, more realistic story as those written in the late 70s). A heavy dose of nostalgia would be the order of the day, I believe, in running something like POTVQ or Dwarven Glory.
Actually, it's funny you mentioned this, I'm gearing up with my brothers for a "classics" campaign where only "letter" modules can be used (we've did this once before and had a blast). The setting is going to be B2 The Keep with B1 being the First adventure; I want to run the "original" version of B3 (orange cover) that I have a copy of instead of the "green" cover version of B3. After reading them both through I thought it would be fun to run an original module that neither of my brothers had ever actually played in (together or collectively we've gamed every published TSR "letter" module, some multiple times). I'm also going to work L3 Deep Dwarven Delve into the game somehow as obviously none of us have ever Dm'd/gamed in this 1st edition module.

Mike B.

rosenkav
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:40 pm

I have some 25 years of DMing on my shoulders, and feel quite the same towards earlier adventures - some have been interesting and others a collection of open-door-kill-monster-grab-loot themes.

Don't blame it on european chauvinism but maybe simply because they have been published after the old TSR ones - I found that the UK published ones were constantly very good - my players loved the UK 4-5-6 (old sage Shalfey from "When a star falls" is one of the current employers of the group I DM) and also the U 1-2-3.

The B10 also, translated into AD&D terms, proved itself a big hit too.

On the US side, one of my groups have loved the L series - in fact a mini campaign too.

From my personal experience I feel that players in general love "open" adventures - like having to interact in a mini-campaign - more than closed, one-course ones, as it was typical of the oldies goldies.

How about you?

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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:56 am

RPGA1 & 2 were good. R1-R4 were enjoyed too. A lot of it depends on the DMs skills too. With respect to the really rare ones, didn't want to play them but the ones that I have read are similar to the subsequent production releases for the most part, perhaps, a little more rough as would be expected.

johnhuck
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:33 am

killjoy32 wrote:i also did G1-2-3, D1-3 and Q1 - everyone got all the way through and lasted til they got to lolth and all bar one died (the thief ran off) - a thoroughly enjoyable game was had by all there - but that series took almost six months of gaming to conclude.....

Is that all? Our GDQ campaign took over 2 years.

And didn't get finished. :? D3 in itself can be a huge campaign. One of the players almost carced it and several characters died along the way!

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:58 am

dbartman wrote:RPGA1 & 2 were good. R1-R4 were enjoyed too. A lot of it depends on the DMs skills too. With respect to the really rare ones, didn't want to play them but the ones that I have read are similar to the subsequent production releases for the most part, perhaps, a little more rough as would be expected.

With the older mods you got the structure to build a good campaign or adventure. I find now that you get a stack of useless description and specifics about how all the NPCs should react to everything. If you just get the basics and the structure, and inventive DM can make an adventure his own. That's why I like the old stuff, and that's why I like the JG mods as well.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

killjoy32
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:22 am

johnhuck wrote:
killjoy32 wrote:i also did G1-2-3, D1-3 and Q1 - everyone got all the way through and lasted til they got to lolth and all bar one died (the thief ran off) - a thoroughly enjoyable game was had by all there - but that series took almost six months of gaming to conclude.....

Is that all? Our GDQ campaign took over 2 years. And didn't get finished. D3 in itself can be a huge campaign. One of the players almost carced it and several characters died along the way!

John, well we used to play in like school holidays n stuff, so we played from like 9am to 7pm every day of the week mate

in D1-3 there are parts where you can really go off on a tangent, and also in Q1 (in the web where you can go to alternate worlds)...i kinda discouraged all that cos i wanted to keep em to the task at hand...the only one i allowed was in Q1 where they went into the alternate world where there was 1 last bastion of mankind and lolth's hordes had besieged it..... we did a big massive battle scenario for that which was tremendous fun...but bar for that i kept it to the modules....btw the result of the battle in the end was a stalemate...nobody won altho the defenders had a slightly upper hand.....

all good fun

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killjoy32
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:24 am

mbassoc2003 wrote:That's why I like the old stuff, and that's why I like the JG mods as well.

I enjoy the older modules far more. All i really want is the information and i do the rest myself. i hate loads of narrative n stuff. JG mods are ace for this reason. :)

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GamersRest[FNG]
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:38 am

killjoy32 wrote:the last module i DM'd was B4 - the players had a great time of it.

That module was one of my all time favorites, even ran a short campaign inside the cave city beneath the pyramid.

i have DM'd I6 before and managed to kill 1/2 the playing group - but was a fantastic game and the EIGHT players playing thought so too.

I have GM'd this adventure four times. Had two full party wipes (I didn't always game with the best and the brightest), had one party succede, and one assist Strahd to escape Ravenloft (they were successfully tricked into it).

i also did G1-2-3, D1-3 and Q1 ...

I only tried to run this series once, the party went ballistic on the hall full of ogres, and hill giants. Total wipe out, a lot of bad rolls in that battle. I do hope to run this again after my D20 SovStone game wraps up.

i DO plan to DM vampire queen tho. i read it up and it sounds cool enough to me. my kinda "rough module". will keep you posted on how it goes....

Cool, I definitely am interested to read the results of that. Judging from many of the others who have responded, I have gathered that the rares are more like the G and D series modules, which is cool. I always prefered open ended adventures like that.

~jeff

GamersRest[FNG]
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:49 am

Badmike wrote:This is an interesting question. I have to chime and and say I feel most of the rares I have read through or gamed are not very good or playable...

...Most adventures are products of the times. Most adventures older than 25 years old rarely hold up the the realities of expectations from today's gamers (this is representative of most forms of media....comics today are much more complicated, better artwork, more realistic story as those written in the late 70s)...

...Actually, it's funny you mentioned this, I'm gearing up with my brothers for a "classics" campaign where only "letter" modules can be used (we've did this once before and had a blast)...
Mike B.

I actually have been going through a bit of gaming nostalgia as of late. And also would like to run a classics campaign. I also do not use, or totally agree with the modern view of what makes a good game adventure. To me D&D is more like an action adventure series than a dramtic one, it is cool to watch characters develope and evolve, but its not the point of the game for me. I do like to make it "realistic" in that I play the monsters according to thier stats, however there is far more violence in my games than what seems to be expected these days. IMO conflict resolution for a barbarian is 5 feet of cold steel blade, not two hours of discussion. But thats just me.

Good luck with your classics game, I personally will need to fill out my collection more before I can run one again.

~jeff

GamersRest[FNG]
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:58 am

rosenkav wrote:...Don't blame it on european chauvinism but maybe simply because they have been published after the old TSR ones - I found that the UK published ones were constantly very good - my players loved the UK 4-5-6 (old sage Shalfey from "When a star falls" is one of the current employers of the group I DM) and also the U 1-2-3...

...From my personal experience I feel that players in general love "open" adventures - like having to interact in a mini-campaign - more than closed, one-course ones, as it was typical of the oldies goldies.

How about you?

I loved the U series, going to have to move that up on my want list. I also like open games, however my current group "Group Beta" is determined to follow the plot as the GM has outlined it, this means they don't do side quests unless they think thats what the GM wants. It is kind of annoying really, they seem to break the game down to it mechanics, very linear thinking really.

~jeff

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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:42 pm

GamersRest[FNG] wrote:I loved the U series, going to have to move that up on my want list. I also like open games, however my current group "Group Beta" is determined to follow the plot as the GM has outlined it, this means they don't do side quests unless they think thats what the GM wants. It is kind of annoying really, they seem to break the game down to it mechanics, very linear thinking really.

~jeff

well my group are one of them groups that no matter how heavy the hook is that you throw at them, they bloody well miss it and go off doing something else, so what i do, is when i want them to go off onto a module (not one of my own or just world travelling etc), i have about 3 or 4 lined up, so that if they miss the one i want, i can get them into another quite easily....always works for me. if everything fails, then i use some form of "act of god" or some mischevious pixie-types to manipulate them they way i want it :D

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Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:35 am

killjoy32 wrote:well my group are one of them groups that no matter how heavy the hook is that you throw at them, they bloody well miss it and go off doing something else, so what i do, is when i want them to go off onto a module (not one of my own or just world travelling etc), i have about 3 or 4 lined up, so that if they miss the one i want, i can get them into another quite easily....always works for me. if everything fails, then i use some form of "act of god" or some mischevious pixie-types to manipulate them they way i want it

Sounds like an exact copy of one of our game groups. Sometimes you can see the DM's eyes go zombie-white and smoke coming out of his ears :twisted: . That's the moment his last plot hook went down the river. Usually the next thing that happens is "Uhm...ok...let's make a short break, have some beer. I'll be back in half an hour" :D

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