ETC/GAME EMP/jonb7839,lisas_stuff_too! is now she_wolf626
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:28 pm 
 

Mbassoc,

Perhaps this has been presented so concisely in the past and I missed it.  And, although it appears that the accusations against them are well founded, whining doesn't get much done.

I have not been significantly harmed by them and unless ebay/paypal change the nature of buyers protection, it seems I won't be.  

If the worst we are facing on ebay now is former scam artists tying up our money for a few weeks, instead of simply stealing it....  in practical terms the real problem is solved.


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:44 pm 
 

Pipswich wrote:Mbassoc,

Perhaps this has been presented so concisely in the past and I missed it.  And, although it appears that the accusations against them are well founded, whining doesn't get much done.

I have not been significantly harmed by them and unless ebay/paypal change the nature of buyers protection, it seems I won't be.  

If the worst we are facing on ebay now is former scam artists tying up our money for a few weeks, instead of simply stealing it....  in practical terms the real problem is solved.


I do understand that now buyers are protected and that all her buyers are doing is assisting the thief in stealing money from PayPal, but once you know you are assisting a thief in their theft from a bank's insurance policy, continuing to help them defraud PayPal is surely immoral, even if knowingly assisting in a fraud is not illegal or cannot be proved. But then that's your moral decision to make I guess. And of course us sellers are the ones who have to pay for the crimes, because PayPal pass their insurance overheads on to us sellers in the form of increased fees.

But, like you said: You'll keep helping them out with their crimes because it's not gonna hurt you. That's quite a comfy liberal attitude to crime. It's that sort of outlook towards criminals that destroys the socail fabric of western societies. Someone else is getting hurt, not me, so fuck'em?

I hope the evidence will change your decision on whether or not you'll continue to trade with this individual.


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Last edited by mbassoc2003 on Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:55 pm 
 

Pipswich wrote:Mbassoc,

Perhaps this has been presented so concisely in the past and I missed it.


Some months back (maybe August?) when I posted something in the interesting items on ebay, it was pointed out to me the history of the seller. I went back and read through only a partial bit on this thread and it was beyond obvious to me what the history was, even without Mbassoc condensing it down. Come on, you couldn't have missed it.

And, although it appears that the accusations against them are well founded, whining doesn't get much done.


Whining DEFINITELY gets much done. That's the whole point -- to raise that red flag so others here know "it's a trap!", as Admiral Akbar would say. :)

I mean, don't you want to help out people here?

If the worst we are facing on ebay now is former scam artists tying up our money for a few weeks, instead of simply stealing it....  in practical terms the real problem is solved.


Are you a public defender or something? :lol:

edit: Mbassoc was quicker on the typing than me, but I have to concur with what he just said!

  

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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:00 pm 
 

Yeah, it pretty much has been a common sense thing since the beginning, which, I guess, is why it is still an issue.


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:00 pm 
 

Glad to hear you are concerned about paypal!  It would appear to me that paypal has more information than we do.  And, if they accept the risk of doing business with these people because they decide it is a good business risk, that is their decision to make.  The fees on the last couple of thousand transactions for Lisa have to be attractive to ebay/paypal.  In fact, I thought some of you guys argue endlessly that that is why Lisa, etc "get away with it".... because it is lucrative to paypal/ebay.  And, as long as it is lucrative... it possibly lowers sellers fees.   (It is not clear to me that the impact of this seller is material or that it effects seller fees up or down).

I still think that if the harm is down to slow shipping...  then there are bigger fish to fry.  The world has real problems to address if you want moral or ethics arguments.  The global warming/war/poverty/famine/health care issues are but a scattering of things that actually deserve real consideration.

It was inevitable that some people would take advantage of the system ebay and paypal put in place at the infancy of customer to customer e-commerce.  And, if after a decade and a half they are starting to make it harder and harder for people to get away with scams, I say great!


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:02 pm 
 

MsB,

I did not say that.  You cast my statements in false light.  Please desist from doing so.


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:10 pm 
 

So, because the corporation assumes the risk of doing business with them, it is okay, now that you know they are committing a crime, to continue to help them with their crime, because you personally aren't goin to be out of pocket. Is that how you have justified continuing to deal with this eBayer? Because it certainly came across that way.
Pipswich wrote:MsB,

I did not say that.  You cast my statements in false light.  Please desist from doing so.

If that wasn't what you meant, you'll need to be more specific. I may have misinterpretted your statement.


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:50 pm 
 

Pipswich wrote:I still think that if the harm is down to slow shipping...  then there are bigger fish to fry.  The world has real problems to address if you want moral or ethics arguments.  The global warming/war/poverty/famine/health care issues are but a scattering of things that actually deserve real consideration.


I would point out that the issues you mentioned are a direct result of people without morals and ethics.
Here's something to ponder:
Back in '79, I went to visit relatives in Syria with my aunt and grandmother. I don't know whether the culture there has degenerated, but while we were there, we witnessed a beheading (yes, a beheading). The perp had killed someone, according to my cousins. Later on I had a lengthy discussion with them about crime and punishment. Thievery was unheard of (barring the occasional truck hijacking at the border) and things like rape, child molesting and whatnot were also non-occurrences. There were two reasons for this: one, the upbringing of the children there was very strict as far as morals and ethics, and two, an offender suffered SEVERE penalties, both via the judicial system and ostracization from society.
More to ponder:
If you knew the penalty for online fraud was 10 years in prison, would you do it? Our issue here is the complete lack of repercussions for what we deem trivial crimes. I pose that when people get away with trivial crimes, they are MUCH more likely to commit greater ones. Doesn't our society claim that pot is a "gateway" drug? If so, then minor fraud is a gateway to greater thefts.
If someone chooses to do business with lisajonbeastern, they enable it to continue its pattern. That much is common sense.


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:12 pm 
 

If someone steals from a bank (even an online bank) then that is theft. Yes?

But in order to perfrom the theft the thief needs either an unknowing individuual to authorise and reverse a transaction, or a co-conspiritor to do the same.

Whilst you may once have been able to claim you were a buyer unknowingly caught up in the theft, Pip; if you continue to buy from Lisa, you are a co-conspiritor, knowingly helping her in steal money without conscience or remorse.

I'm hope you cannot morally justify that and think before you buy from her again.


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:15 pm 
 

Yeah, I noticed an almost complete absence of crime whilst in the UAE. No crime at all. No tolerance of crime. No fear of crime. And some people think of these countries as 'backwords' because they don't extend 'human rights' to criminals.


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:08 pm 
 

Syria is an interesting model to celebrate, lol.  It might be ok if you are male, native and maintain the dominant religious affiliation.  Otherwise, your daughters might well be sold a sex slaves.  Must be easy to ignore such obvious things as rape and slavery while queing up for the next public beheading.  Barbarism is Barbarism.

And, shopping on ebay is not stealing from a bank.  No convoluted argument composed of analogies and partially documented facts will make it so.

And, MsBassoc... since you have advocated thievery on the board before, no one on the site should shop with you, right.  And, no active members have ever committed a crime that went unnoticed?  We need to route them out and prevent them from running their businesses, right?  Do you or a buddy have a private ebay account you will use to buy inventory as your crusade drives away her customers, and theirs?  

Hypocrisy is bunk.  

re: Syria and ethics etc.

Crime Tables - Statistics Syria


Transnational Issues > Trafficking in persons > Current situation
Syria is a destination and transit country for women and children trafficked for commercial sexual exploitation and forced labor; a significant number of women and children in the large and expanding Iraqi refugee community in Syria are reportedly forced into commercial sexual exploitation by Iraqi gangs or, in some cases, their families; women from Indonesia, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, Ethiopia, and Sierra Leone are recruited for work in Syria as domestic servants, but some face conditions of involuntary servitude, including long hours, non-payment of wages, withholding of passports, restrictions on movement, threats, and physical or sexual abuse
Transnational Issues > Trafficking in persons > Tier rating
Tier 3 - Syria again failed to report any law enforcement efforts to punish trafficking offenses in 2007; in addition, the government did not offer protection services to victims of trafficking and may have arrested, prosecuted, or deported some victims for prostitution or immigration violations; Syria has not ratified the 2000 UN TIP Protocol

Transnational Issues > Trafficking in persons > Current situation
Syria is a destination and transit country for women and children trafficked for commercial sexual exploitation and forced labor; a significant number of women and children in the large and expanding Iraqi refugee community in Syria are reportedly forced into commercial sexual exploitation by Iraqi gangs or, in some cases, their families; women from Indonesia, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, Ethiopia, and Sierra Leone are recruited for work in Syria as domestic servants, but some face conditions of involuntary servitude, including long hours, non-payment of wages, withholding of passports, restrictions on movement, threats, and physical or sexual abuse
Transnational Issues > Trafficking in persons > Tier rating
Tier 3 - Syria again failed to report any law enforcement efforts to punish trafficking offenses in 2007; in addition, the government did not offer protection services to victims of trafficking and may have arrested, prosecuted, or deported some victims for prostitution or immigration violations; Syria has not ratified the 2000 UN TIP Protocol

Transnational Issues > Trafficking in persons > Current situation
Syria is a destination and transit country for women and children trafficked for commercial sexual exploitation and forced labor; a significant number of women and children in the large and expanding Iraqi refugee community in Syria are reportedly forced into commercial sexual exploitation by Iraqi gangs or, in some cases, their families; women from Indonesia, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, Ethiopia, and Sierra Leone are recruited for work in Syria as domestic servants, but some face conditions of involuntary servitude, including long hours, non-payment of wages, withholding of passports, restrictions on movement, threats, and physical or sexual abuse
Transnational Issues > Trafficking in persons > Tier rating
Tier 3 - Syria again failed to report any law enforcement efforts to punish trafficking offenses in 2007; in addition, the government did not offer protection services to victims of trafficking and may have arrested, prosecuted, or deported some victims for prostitution or immigration violations; Syria has not ratified the 2000 UN TIP Protocol


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:54 pm 
 

......................
I have no idea where you dragged up that site, but it's a complete crock of shit. Don't try and peddle Internet crap as truth; I've been there, and I KNOW what the place is like.
I never had issues with you before, Pip, but don't question my veracity, ever, especially when you cite some fucking retarded, home-grown, ad-peddling website as your source. You want to use the Web as your dogma, fine, but if you use it as an excuse to call me a liar, we have a problem.


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:11 pm 
 

RaisedFromTheDead wrote:......................
I have no idea where you dragged up that site, but it's a complete crock of shit. Don't try and peddle Internet crap as truth; I've been there, and I KNOW what the place is like.
I never had issues with you before, Pip, but don't question my veracity, ever, especially when you cite some fucking retarded, home-grown, ad-peddling website as your source. You want to use the Web as your dogma, fine, but if you use it as an excuse to call me a liar, we have a problem.

That site lifted its information from thw CIA factbook at CIA - The World Factbook

No one is calling you a liar.  Truth on the ground is different from the view from 20,000 feet.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:53 pm 
 

I think I missed something important.  How did we go from a brief mention of the UAE to Syria?  I think the cold meds are kicking in because this thread at least made some sense until that happened.


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:28 pm 
 

As far as I'm concerned, Lisa's Shit Stinks is done, and all that awaits us is to remain vigilant for the next incarnation of the Crooks form Virginny.  All the Syria whatever stuff is just distraction, and we should remember the main purpose of this thread is to point out one particular Ebay criminal. That has been done, now just to watch the meltdown.

BTW every single incarnation of this swindler has ended with a death or dying relative, and if you remember this scammer actually stooped to disgustingness by lying about a husband that supposedly served in the military and was killed. As far as I'm concerned, this is the worst fucking scumbag lie ever and this person is a piece of human filth.  Kind of silly they are peddling the same crap when the seller has no power on ebay now and buyers can very easily get their money back, but I guess old habits die hard.  Anyway, this is pretty much over so no need for everyone here to get all bent out of shape over non-isssues.

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Post Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:00 am 
 

Everybody listen up!

When you see this: Pipswich

Press this button in your brain: IGNORE THE TROLL

PS. Has Pipswich EVER contributed to a single piece of useful information concerning the collectability of D&D material? If not, can Foul please bring out the Troll-Banner Hammer +10 and use it on this Troll? Please!


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:52 am 
 

with regards the money and Paypal, if this thief takes the cash out of their paypal account and closes their bank account/card that connects to it, what does paypal do then. The seller gets the money, doesn't ship the item, stalls the sale, clears the money, closes the bank account, gone.
Does paypal just pay the buyer? If so, this piece of crap loses nothing, no 'money tied up', no loss, no police turning up on their doorstep...


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:49 am 
 

JohnGaunt wrote:That site lifted its information from thw CIA factbook at CIA - The World Factbook

No one is calling you a liar.  Truth on the ground is different from the view from 20,000 feet.


Ah, the CIA, the standardbearers of truth......
You're right, John. I know better than to be offended when a troll calls me a liar. His opinion is worthless, as has been demonstrated repeatedly.
I am sure easternlisa will be back. eBay enables idiots like that. Give it about 5 months.


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