ETC/GAME EMP/jonb7839,lisas_stuff_too! is now she_wolf626
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:26 am 
 

The question is a moral one.  Is it ok to ripoff a thief :?

I say why not 8)


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:29 am 
 

You're only ripping off a thief if you refuse to pay him or lie about the item arriving. If you offer to pay and he's f"cked off, won't respond, or has had his account closed, you aren't ripping off anyone.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:04 pm 
 

Actually, you got excited about scamming free stuff as soon as you decided it was the same person.  It appears that you are encouraging people to buy (perhaps even things that people don't even want), wait the minimum amount of time to file a chargeback, do so immediately, and gloat if they get stuff for free.

A thief is a thief and two wrongs don't make a right.  They are clearly getting behind on shipping.  The honorable thing to do is not to steal from them, but to walk away from shopping until they are gone, or have got the issues resolved.  

The mob mentality reflected in this thread does not justify structuring bad faith business deals trying to rip him off

Just look at a few of your posts on the matter and try to explain how they are honest and in good faith?

mbassoc2003 wrote:Yay! He's Back.
Another chance for everyone to get some free stuff and screw the guy before he screws everyone else. If more people do it, he'll soon get the message.


and

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:25 am
So, did anyone take my advice and rip the guy off before he started stiffing everone else?
This guy was kind enough to send me Dungeon of Dr. Demento before he shut up shop last time. I preempted the fall from grace with a chargeback, but when it did turn up, he wasn't around to be contacted and his eBay account was suspended.

Buy.
Wait 14 days.
Chargeback sighting writing on the wall and non-delivery.

If the item turns up, offer to pay for the goods. If she's gone by then, hay-ho. I'm sure she'll ask for the money if she wants it.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:45 pm 
 

I wouldn't suggest buying things you don't want. That's going a little too far.
Yes, I did get a free copy of Dungeons of Dr. Demento from this guy.
Stealing is when you take something from someone without their consent, and contrary to the laws of a country. Only the seller is doing that, buy taking money in payment for goods he has no intent to supply.

I don't think there's any doubt that the the same perpetrator is responsible in these cases. The MO is identical. The grammer and typography are identical. The correspondence is virtually identical, and the stock on the previous three names have been shown to be the exact same stock. Right down to reference numbers on limited edition tourneys.

I see no reason, given the evidence, not to assume that you're gonna get screwed once something remains undelivered 14 days after payment. The actions of chargeback are those of any sane individual, and there is no morality issue at all. I recommend buying, as you are safe, chageback at the 14 day period, and then offer the money back if anything ever turns up.

I see you have a moral issue about this means of buying from a seller who is on their way out, but I fail to see how you can see it as immoral. Maybe it is immoral for everyone to buy from him from the getgo because they are just encouraging him to commit fraud and building his reputation in order to give him the credibility to screw other people? Maybe it's immoral to trust a buyer on their way out when the writing is on the wall? I don't know.

But I can say this... The people who support the seller's activities by buying from him and building up his facade of trust are a lot more in the wrong than those who buy from him after he turns bad and get stung or chargeback or end up with stock that they can't pay for. Your moral compass is a little off kilter here, Pip. We've been watching this guy for maybe six or seven years now, and most of the forum 'names' know what kind of situation is developing. The only difference this time is that PayPal is on the side of the buyer. A lot of people lost a lot of money last time. I just happened to walk away with a freebie rare.

I was damned pleased with the outcome, and would recommend the actions I took to anyone and everyone dealing with this guy.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:41 pm 
 

I don't think shopping with someone is encouraging someone to commit fraud.

I do believe that even if you are right, that people are capable of learning how to do business better and should not be punished in perpetuity for past crimes.  So far, slow shipping is the problem, and although I would not bet against other problems arising, I will not predict the future either.

You blast people for shopping with them when they think they will get their goods... but encourage people to shop with them and provide a model that might generate free goodies at the sellers expense because you think that they may not deliver fast enough... even with international shipping..  Your moral compass is pointing straight down.

You, in fact, got out last time with free goods, and seem to want to do so again.

You are holding a grudge and encouraging people to do business in bad faith.

If you are going to champion the idea that people do business with this person....   do it consistently.  Because, what you are doing is blaming people for doing honest business and praising them for engaging in questionable practices.  That's simply wrong.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:44 pm 
 

I think you missed the point.

I also think you don't know about the guy's form. Maybe a little research is needed.

Nor has this guy has EVER been punished for the hundreds of people he has stolen thousands of dollars from. Being punished once for fraud would satisfy most of his victims. I don't know where you get 'punished in perpetuity' from; so in this regard you appear quite uninformed and out of touch.

I was pointing out that defending and reinforcing a person's fraudulent position, knowing you are setting up others to be stolen from, is as morally questionable as buying from him and defending your position, if you are predisposed to make moral judgements on these matters.

Personally I don't give a sh!t. I bought and won. Won't be buying again. But if you are inclined to make one moral judgement over another, the only justification can be that you didn't know he was a thief. That sort of plea is moot, as everyone here knows he's a thief.

What I am championing is doing informed business with your eyes open, knowing the nature of the predator you are dealing with, and the rules within which you are operating. The purpose is to encourage people to open their eyes and assess their transactions/potential transactions with a wider view of the fraud scheme that is going down. As far as I can see, there is no right or wrong, no morality issue and no absolutes. You either buy or don't buy.

But if people read this and it helps them make their decision with more information, whether they win or lose out, then this thread and these posts have served their purpose.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:17 pm 
 

You are not simply keeping people informed.  You are advocating that people steal.


"Yay! He's Back.
Another chance for everyone to get some free stuff and screw the guy before he screws everyone else. If more people do it, he'll soon get the message."

AND again

"So, did anyone take my advice and rip the guy off before he started stiffing everone else?"


Keeping people informed is a legitimate role for a collectors site.

Advocating.... ripping people of simply because it looks like you can...  or for redress of past wrongs is... as equally wrong as what you accuse he/she of.

There appear to be many victims in whatever happened years ago and you do not appear to be one.  You are little better than he is, grabbing what you can, gloating about it and encouraging others to steal.... because the system will allow it if she/he keeps shipping slowly.

Be ashamed.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:29 pm 
 

If jonb wants his money, all he need do is ask. I'm more than happy to pay up, and it's not like I deny receiving my purchase. I would dispute the shipping charge, but the purchase cost is legitimately his.

IMO, if you're going to go to extremes, vigilanty justice is justified when there is no viable form of redress for those harmed, and when it acts as a deterant or remedy for criminal activity. EBay have no interest or motive to deter or prevent crime. It removes their income stream if they do. If the buyers take action against fraudsters within the system of laws and rules set out, and that action works, all the better for everyone on eBay.

I don't think anyone has broken the law here, or stolen anything, with the exception of ETC/jonb. When you've been screwed out of hundreds of dollars and have no recourse, maybe you'll have a less tolerant attitude towards thieves, and a greater willingness to take action to deter them.

We really don't need to explore eBay or the law as means of redress, as I presume no-one here is stupid enough to think either is on the side of the buyer.

The only people looking out for the buyer's interests are the Buyer himself and his credit card. Granted PayPal have taken steps in that direction recently, but let's face it, both the credit card and PayPal are only interested in the buyer so long as it is financially in their interest to be so.

When you are involved in an eBay fraud, I can only advocate doing everything you can to screw the fraudster. Over and over again, even when he returns under a new identity, until it hurts him. Let's face it, most people will just whinge and sit on their arses complaining.


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:55 am 
 

He's a thief. Fuck him. Steal.
Forgiving past crimes is one thing; forgiving someone who either can't or won't change is idiotic.


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:51 am 
 

Whale Tagger wrote:He's a thief. Fuck him. Steal.
Forgiving past crimes is one thing; forgiving someone who either can't or won't change is idiotic.


I was just thinking the same thing :lol:


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:46 pm 
 

More ass-kickingly funny feedback replies from our favorite ebay con artist:

feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?View ... ;items=200

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:55 pm 
 

certainly looks as though there would be a hell of a lot more Negs, but they appear to have changed them to +s...

maybe this asshole was getting burnt and decided to post out again?


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:00 pm 
 

On the same subject, I found the last guy's return addresses from his previous eBay incarnations...

Jon Bassett  
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  
Dublin, VA xxxxx  
United States  
(540) xxx-xxxx  

Richard & Carrie  Callahan
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Dublin, VA xxxxxxxx
(540) xxx-xxxx

Kahl, C J
Pulaski, VA xxxxxxx
(540) xxx-xxxx

Obviously edited out street names, zips and phone numbers, but you get the idea. All in the same location. So the question is, where is the current incarnation at, and if someone has completed a purchase, how about doing a request for info from eBay for comparison, and if they're similar or significant, PM me and I'll add it to my little database.

I know the current location is also VA, so it'd be good to Google the zip codes and find out proximity to the previous addresses. Odds are very high this is the same asshole.


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Post Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:03 am 
 

Is there a compiled list of eBay sellers to stay away from? I find these threads very interesting, to say the least. I've only been seriously collecting for a couple months now, but I've already had a couple semi-bad experiences, and I learn with each auction that I win.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:27 pm 
 

A slew of new negs from Viktorhat.

eBay Feedback Profile for lisas_stuff_too

Someone with a grudge maybe?  8O


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Post Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:46 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:A slew of new negs from Viktorhat.


His comment is really strange to me:  "Asked for money up front".  What was he expecting?

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Post Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:27 am 
 

Well...I've had JUST about ALL I can Stand...having to sit by...and see my NAME get drug through the MUD....and having to deal with some of you trying to STEAL From me and my two children!!

Anyone...involved with that...should be TOTALLY Ashamed of themselves!!

My husband introduced me to what I first thought was a bunch of NERDS...but I quickly fell in LOVE with everything about D&D...and the people involved with it!! But SURELY...this is not what the D&D Community has become?? That is TRULY SAD...if it has!!   :(


I hate that ANYONE was taken advantage of by some apparent LOW LIFE!! But I think you should at least KNOW who you are talking about...BEFORE you jump on to some RIDICULOUS Rant!!

From what I have seen...this Jonb...has been gone for YEARS!!??

Let me ask "Gnat the Beggar" this...why have you not told anyone about our dealings, John??? I do appreciate you trying to tell them without getting involved. But MY GOODNESS...how could you sit there...KNOWING GOOD AND WELL...it was ALL Ridiculous!! I even sent a picture of myself to you...HOLDING your items before I mailed them!!??

Still got those TWO 1ST PRINTINGS of TEGAL MANOR I sold you?? One on a STRAIGHT Side deal??  :?: Along with all the other Stuff I sold you??

I don't know ANY of you personally...and you don't know me...so because I live in VA...I'm a CROOK!???

Let me give you some background...since I have apparently been on several of your minds!!

I'm 44 years old...I have two lovely twins...and my girls are my life!!
I met my husband in College...where I feel in Love with Him...and Role-Playing Games...but D&D and TRAVELLER...where my two FAVS!! I graduated from WVU...with a degree in Marketing...thus the use of RARE. Don't laugh!! LOL I'm no HILLBILLY!!  :)

I have as I'm SURE you've seen stopped using the term...for everything I sell! As I found out...it was offensive to some of you guys. But I did...what EBAY Suggests you do...HYPE it UP!! That's ALL!!

My husband was in the National Guard...and got sent to Iraq...and he didn't make it back from his second tour. My children can't even remember their father....and I can't believe I'm telling total strangers my life story!! But I have nothing to hide! Well onward...we go...

We would go to Gen Con...about every other Year in the early ninties. I got to meet and play with the likes of Gary Gygax and Frank Mentzer...sitting between them!! I could barely concentrate on the game...I was so in AWE of them BOTH!!

I can't remember Frank's wifes name...but she actually BAKED us Cookies...as she is a Fabulous baker!!

I've meet Aaron Leeder...Mike...from Dragon's Trove...Bob Blake...just about ALL of them!!

Some REALLY Nice People MOST of them...anyway!!

As we spent MOST of our time...at the Gen Con and Origins Auctions!!

I have a Storage building that is full of stuff...but I have put a HUGE dent into what all we had collected over the years! Then about 3-4 years ago...I myself...bought out my local Hobby Shop. The owner had passed away...and his family held an auction...as they needed the funds for his Funeral!! I must admit...I raked up on that deal...but I felt a little bad at the same time...as they could have got a TON of money if they would have auctioned it off online!! I only had to bid against about 5 other bidders...who were all from VA TECH...and I was determined to win!!

Now what else...am I forgetting??

I have a TON of info...on SEVERAL of you Guys...so I thought it was ONLY Fair to give you some info on myself!! Do you GOOD GUYS Out there...know some of the SHADY things some of these People are UP TO??

Well I have this entire Thread from Page 32 on...on Disk...and so does my Lawyer...my Post Master...is in contact with SEVERAL Postal Hubs around the World...and when they get confirmation of Delivery...some of you are about to have a TERRIBLE Bad week...to say the least!!

I'm sorry to introduce myself this way...as I should have listned to you JOHN!!! Aneoth...is a CLASS ACT...NO Doubt about that!! CHARLES....you are TRULY a PALADIN!! Fighting for the Just and....I can tell you are TRULY an Honarable Man with Morals!!

As for the Rest of you...I don't know?? I'm not going to BASH anyone...as I will not LOWER my STANDARDS!! All I ask...is give me a chance!!!

I REALLY wanted to introduce myself...as the pleasant and LONG-WINDED Woman I REALLY am...so you MUST Forgive my FIRST POST!!

I wish nothing but the BEST for EVERY One of US...from the Collector's to the SELLERS!!!

Well I've said what I needed to say...and I'm opening myself up to get BEAT ON...I Guess...but I just has to set the Record Straight!!

My BEST Regards, Lisa

  


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Post Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:34 am 
 

Pipswich wrote:Actually, you got excited about scamming free stuff as soon as you decided it was the same person.  It appears that you are encouraging people to buy (perhaps even things that people don't even want), wait the minimum amount of time to file a chargeback, do so immediately, and gloat if they get stuff for free.

A thief is a thief and two wrongs don't make a right.  They are clearly getting behind on shipping.  The honorable thing to do is not to steal from them, but to walk away from shopping until they are gone, or have got the issues resolved.  

The mob mentality reflected in this thread does not justify structuring bad faith business deals trying to rip him off

Just look at a few of your posts on the matter and try to explain how they are honest and in good faith?



and

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:25 am
So, did anyone take my advice and rip the guy off before he started stiffing everone else?
This guy was kind enough to send me Dungeon of Dr. Demento before he shut up shop last time. I preempted the fall from grace with a chargeback, but when it did turn up, he wasn't around to be contacted and his eBay account was suspended.

Buy.
Wait 14 days.
Chargeback sighting writing on the wall and non-delivery.

If the item turns up, offer to pay for the goods. If she's gone by then, hay-ho. I'm sure she'll ask for the money if she wants it.



Pipswich  You SIR...are a TRULY HONARABLE Person!! Ian...you should be asahmed...is this how you TREAT Woman in your Country...maybe your NOT a SLIME BALL...but you SURE appear to be!!

  

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Post Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:27 am 
 

I certainly don't know if you are who you claim to be, BUT... My experience buying from you was a total nightmare. I paid for my items, then waited two weeks. I then contacted you, and you admitted that the items had never been sent, but that they soon would be. I filed a PayPal dispute, to make sure you would send them, as my BS detector was going haywire at this point. The items finally arrived a week later, with all kinds of flaws that were never disclosed in the auction descriptions. I was eventually able to resell one of the books for about 1/4 of what I paid you. In the meantime, you constantly barraged me with logorrheic e-mails begging me to lift the PayPal dispute before I received the package, as you needed the money to ship other items (more BS). From what I've read here, I surmise pretty much everyone else has had the same issues.

You might be who you say; you sure know how to drop names, in any case. What the hell difference does it make? You're still a TERRIBLE eBay seller. At the very least you repeatedly bite off WAY more than you can chew, and don't learn from your mistakes. At worst you're a lying piece of s*&t.

YMMV (or not so much).

EDITED several times to shape my initial torrent of spleen into coherent thoughts.


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Post Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:40 am 
 

gamegirl wrote:Well...I've had JUST about ALL I can Stand...having to sit by...and see my NAME get drug through the MUD....and having to deal with some of you trying to STEAL From me and my two children!!

Etc,etc,etc,

Well I've said what I needed to say...and I'm opening myself up to get BEAT ON...I Guess...but I just has to set the Record Straight!!

My BEST Regards, Lisa


Just my very brief view and summary of this whole episode as I haven't read all the pages involved, but...

Ok, so I've never bought from you, nor would I. I find the fact you can't string a sentence together without filling it full of capital letters and poor spelling is bothersome.

Also, playing your 'lawyer' card in an open forum usually means you have no lawyer and are just firing shots in the air to big yourself up.

I think the feedback generally explains a lot, so you need to sort that out before you start gobbing off, love...

As for
gamegirl wrote:Pipswich  You SIR...are a TRULY HONARABLE Person!!
 I haven't laughed so much in ages...   :lol:  :lol:

Thanks for that!


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